Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 25th May 2013 00:45 UTC
Google "So in summary... Google has pulled the plug on support on a protocol they've helped popularize, after years of promising interoperability, for reasons that are dubious at best, and in a way that leaves people who don't jump to the new Hangouts app unable to talk to their contacts without any feedback that their IMs aren't getting through... And they've done that with no warning to anyone. I imagine there's a bunch of people out there wondering where some of their buddies have gone, or why their messages aren't getting responses, because this isn't documented anywhere." Google really messed this up. Such a dick move.
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RE: Comment by marcp
by No it isnt on Sat 25th May 2013 13:10 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
No it isnt
Member since:
2005-11-14

But what's the point?

The alternatives are either just as "evil" or not nearly as good. Well, I suppose you could replace Chrome with Chromium.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by Valhalla on Sat 25th May 2013 16:53 in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

But what's the point?

The alternatives are either just as "evil" or not nearly as good.


Exactly, and while I'm unhappy with many of Google's choices of late, I still benefit greatly not only from their services but also from their open source offerings, not to mention how so many of my favourite open source projects greatly benefit from efforts like Google summer of code.

Since I have a brain I was never under the impression that Google ran on pixie dust, they offer services in exchange for advertising and advertising data which is also what all the other 'free' services does, so the question boils down to what do I get in return.

The quality of Google's services is typically top notch, so I'm unlikely to consider switching based upon technical reasons, the privacy 'issue' is just BS, all the 'players' offering 'free' services gathers your personal habits when using these services and sells that data to advertisers.

It's all the same and unlike the case with government requests, this advertising data can't be used to identify you as an idividual.

Looking past the services, do they offer anything else?

As an open source proponent I find Google offers a great deal here, they fund Google summer of code, they fund development of Linux, FreeBSD, GCC, Clang/LLVM, Webm (VP8/VP9), Firefox, Chromium, Android, Blink, etc.

As such I wouldn't use Bing even if it was as good as Google search.

I get nothing back from Microsoft beyond the service itself, instead any advertising dollar I put in Microsoft's pocket will most likely be used against my open source interests as Microsoft will use that money to further their proprietary vendor lock-in strategy (to which open source is a long time threat).

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by Nelson on Sat 25th May 2013 19:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Running a Linux VM on an Azure Instance in Microsoft's Cloud. Yeah, sure sounds like vendor lock in.

Microsoft has plenty of open source initiatives and has published numerous specifications for their technologies with the relevant standards bodies.

Microsoft is incredibly active on the W3C, their .NET scene is pivoting towards open source, and their browser embraces more open standards with every release.

This doesn't have much to do with Microsoft, and plenty to do with Google using and abusing open source to suit their own agenda.

This classic bait and switch is hilarious, if for little more than the fact that the wool was pulled over the eyes of the OSNews collective and they never saw it coming.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by UltraZelda64 on Sat 25th May 2013 19:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

The alternatives are either just as "evil" or not nearly as good.

That depends on what you define as "good." Sure, as far as number of users goes, theoretically Google Talk is good. After all, everyone who has a Gmail address has a Google Talk address; whether they actually use it or not is another thing entirely. I have been primarily using my e-mail address, for the most part; most of my friends are too stubborn to leave Yahoo! Messenger. And as far as uptime and reliability goes, again--not much can beat the strength of such a massive corporation with seemingly unlimited money to blow on power, servers and system maintenance, so that's all bound to be good on a Google-run server.

But on the other hand, many of these "alternative" XMPP services around the world probably also have perfectly adequate uptimes and reliability. The only problem with them is... well, there's just so many, and they don't have the money and time that a mega corporation like can devote to the service... so you have to actively search for the one that will be the most reliable of the bunch and just trust them to keep the service going.

You also have to consider things like "will they be around five years from now?" But is that really any different from Google, or at least in this case, their XMPP-enabled Google Talk service? I bet years ago when Google Talk was first conceived and started picking up, people didn't stop to think, "will this still be around five years in the future?"

But now the little guys all have one major advantage that Google's service is now losing; the ability to chat with people on a different server without having to sign up multiple accounts. I'm still on my quest to find the "best" XMPP service, and honestly, so far the performance and reliability of the vast majority of them has been pretty damn good. I'm thinking it will take quite some time of evaluation to come to even a halfway-decent conclusion.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by No it isnt on Sat 25th May 2013 20:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

You may be right, but I was responding to marcp talking about avoiding Google altogether, not just Hangouts. Without XMPP federation, you will of course not use Hangouts if none of your contacts do.

Reply Parent Score: 2