Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 7th Jun 2013 11:40 UTC
Legal This story is getting bigger and bigger. Even though most Americans probably already knew, it is now official: the United States government, through its National Security Agency, is collecting the communications and data of all American citizens, and of non-Americans using American services, through a wide collaboration with the large companies in technology, like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and so on. Interestingly enough, the NSA itself, as well as the US government, have repeatedly and firmly denied this massive spying on Americans and non-Americans took place at all.
Thread beginning with comment 564079
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
jigzat
Member since:
2008-10-30

The Soviet Union murdered tens of millions of it's own citizens,


Like US does with American soldiers in nonsense wars like Vietnam Irak and Afganistan

suppressed all dissenting political activity,


Guantanamo anyone? Or how about the concept of the domino effect that murder many foreign politicians like Salvador Allende

prevented it's citizens from travelling abroad or freely accessing foreign culture


Like traveling to Cuba

It also imposed all of that on many other countries in Europe through the use and threat of military force.


Like still USA does on the rest of the world.

USA is no better or worst than the Soviet Union, all governments act the same, and those who don't will if they face similar circumstances.

I will rather not take a side on this one since is a really complex matter, is not that simply as saying "Oh no the government is reading my tweets".

Hmm, now that I read my own post it looks like I did choose a sideā€¦ interesting, I just became Switzerland.

Edited 2013-06-08 06:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Guantanamo anyone?


That's mostly for foreign nationals so it's ok because, you know, they're foreigners and don't deserve any freedom or rights. As for the Americans there? Well, they're "obviously" terrorists so that's ok too.

USA is no better or worst than the Soviet Union


As bad as the U.S may be, and its plenty of bad, it's nowhere near the USSR. Yet.

Reply Parent Score: 4

pashar Member since:
2006-07-12

This is great example of false equivalence.

Reply Parent Score: 1

pashar Member since:
2006-07-12

" The Soviet Union murdered tens of millions of it's own citizens,


Like US does with American soldiers in nonsense wars like Vietnam Irak and Afganistan
"

You mean, US soldiers kill US citizens in those countries?

suppressed all dissenting political activity,


Guantanamo anyone?

And how many people are held in Guanatamo, as compared to Gulag?

Or how about the concept of the domino effect that murder many foreign politicians like Salvador Allende


Can you name more of these "many" politicians?


"prevented it's citizens from travelling abroad or freely accessing foreign culture


Like traveling to Cuba
"
Great example. Forbidding citizens from visiting few countries considered hostile (which is, BTW, done by almost every country) as compared to almost total ban on visits abroad (less severe in case of socialist countries and almost total for capitalist countries).

Reply Parent Score: 1

jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

You mean, US soldiers kill US citizens in those countries


A US soldier is also a US citizen, and when you send a soldier to die just because USA doesn't like the political stance of some government I think is virtually the same as murder.

And how many people are held in Guantanamo, as compared to Gulag?


I don't think is a matter of quantity but quality. As someone else pointed although Guantanamo prisoners are considered terrorist even prisoners have the right to a fair trial.

Can you name more of these "many" politicians?


Jorge Eliecer Gaitan in Colombia and the many killed by the Operation Condor in Latin America which targeted every leftist activist, or the support of Ronald Reagan to central american rightist dictators that murdered hundreds of leftist activist.

Great example. Forbidding citizens from visiting few countries considered hostile


Cuba has never been particularly hostile against north american tourists after the cold war.

As I said every county facing similar circumstances will do the same so we cannot call every other county better or worst.

Hostility towards Cuba was of course justified since they were about to point nuclear weapons against US but also remember that US supported Fidel Castro to overthrow their democratically elected president just because he wasn't pro American.

And also the leftist leaders in the rest of Latin America were not particularly interested in supporting Russia or USA they just wanted fair labor conditions, the same rights that USA workers had won and enjoy. Yet the USA saw that as communism and targeted those counties as well.

Edited 2013-06-09 18:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1