Linked by Howard Fosdick on Mon 24th Jun 2013 03:00 UTC
Linux I volunteer as tech support for a small organization. For years we relied on Ubuntu on our desktops, but the users didn't like it when Ubuntu switched to the Unity interface. This article tells about our search for a replacement and why we decided on Xfce running atop Linux Mint.
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RE[2]: mate is better now.
by Morgan on Mon 24th Jun 2013 11:38 UTC in reply to "RE: mate is better now."
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

That said, KDE4 does require a fair chunk of hardware. It's not one for the low end hardware and is easily one of the most bloated DEs on Linux (personally I make use of most of KDEs features, so it's not "bloat" to me - but I appreciate everybody's use cases are different)


I have a love/hate thing with KDE. I agree that the "bloat" is actually just a wealth of features and choices, but that's also its biggest problem. At one point there were three text editors (KEdit, KWrite, and Kate) and while each of them had some desirable features, none of them had a complete enough feature set to be truly useful as the only editor. Likewise, a KDE native office suite has been a moving target. It always seemed like a K-app would get so close to being feature complete only to be dropped and replaced with a new, featureless app that had to follow the same treadmill towards usefulness.

I'm hoping that razor-qt will become the lean, one-app-per-task DE that it promises to be. I still have a place in my heart for GTK apps, but the fragmentation thanks to Unity and Gnome3 means going all GTK is much more difficult than it should be.

Edited 2013-06-24 11:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: mate is better now.
by Laurence on Mon 24th Jun 2013 11:54 in reply to "RE[2]: mate is better now."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


I have a love/hate thing with KDE. I agree that the "bloat" is actually just a wealth of features and choices, but that's also its biggest problem. At one point there were three text editors (KEdit, KWrite, and Kate) and while each of them had some desirable features, none of them had a complete enough feature set to be truly useful as the only editor.

Kwrite is basically just the KDE equivalent of Notepad.exe and Kate is more of an IDE with Kwrite at it's core. So from a developers perspective there is quite a difference there. But I can totally relate to the confusion as I only know this from spending hours of development time inside KDE.

As for Kedit, I only vaguely recall it and it's not bundled with KDE any longer. I wonder if it was an original name for Kwrite or Kate but legal issues forced a name change (I notice there is another piece of software named "Kedit" that's not related to KDE). I'm just speculating here though - you may well be right that the KDE devs decided to bundle 3 similar text editors.


Likewise, a KDE native office suite has been a moving target. It always seemed like a K-app would get so close to being feature complete only to be dropped and replaced with a new, featureless app that had to follow the same treadmill towards usefulness.

Yeah, I don't particularly rate KOffice myself. I don't agree with your remark in terms of the wider KDE suite. But it's certainly true of KOffice.


I'm hoping that razor-qt will become the lean, one-app-per-task DE that it promises to be. I still have a place in my heart for GTK apps, but the fragmentation thanks to Unity and Gnome3 means going all GTK is much more difficult than it should be.

I've not checked out Razor for a while. I really should give it another look. I think our opinions differ with regards to Qt vs GTK though - but then I guess the beauty of Linux (and perhaps it's biggest drawback too - in terms of fragmentation) is that you and I can have differing preferences and still run the same OS.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: mate is better now.
by Morgan on Mon 24th Jun 2013 14:17 in reply to "RE[3]: mate is better now."
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Kedit is no longer part of KDE, though there was a time when all three were available at once, back in the 3.x days. Kedit was a casualty of the move to 4.x, and dropping it was an example (in my mind, highly appropriate) of the slow but steady push towards slimming KDE to something less than a dozen apps for one task.

Take the multimedia player landscape: Dragon Player, Kaffeine, KMPlayer, and KPlayer are all included in default installs. Each is a "multimedia player", so why four of them? In fact, Dragon Player's About page describes what KDE itself needs:

Dragon Player is a multimedia player where the focus is on simplicity, instead of features. Dragon Player does one thing, and only one thing, which is playing multimedia files. It's simple interface is designed not to get in your way and instead empower you to simply play multimedia files.

So, if Dragon Player is all we ever needed to play multimedia files, why three others?

I think a lot of the issues with KDE and its lack of consistency is due to just how large the project is. The 4.x release has steadily improved in a lot of ways, to the point that I actually do find KDE usable on a daily basis. However, there is still an overwhelming feeling of fragmentation and "project X doesn't know what project Y did so both are broken in this point release" kind of thing.

I think our opinions differ with regards to Qt vs GTK though - but then I guess the beauty of Linux (and perhaps it's biggest drawback too - in terms of fragmentation) is that you and I can have differing preferences and still run the same OS.


Actually I don't mind using both QT and GTK apps; from years of using Gnome and Xfce I do have an affinity for GTK apps but I also recognize that QT is a great toolkit in its own right, and has some great apps too (Amarok being one of my favorites). I also enjoy the fact that KDE is more graceful when handling GTK apps under Kwin than Xfce and Gnome are when handling QT apps. To borrow slang from a novel I'm reading, KDE is a lot more mesh than the others.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: mate is better now.
by tupp on Mon 24th Jun 2013 18:48 in reply to "RE[2]: mate is better now."
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

I have a love/hate thing with KDE. I agree that the "bloat" is actually just a wealth of features and choices, but that's also its biggest problem.

I'm hoping that razor-qt will become the lean, one-app-per-task DE that it promises to be.

Aptosid still has a KDE-lite package http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rika5DVALjY

Apparently, so does FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdsoftware.org/x11/kde-lite.html

The Klyde project for SUSE is promising: http://blogs.kde.org/2013/04/11/hackweek9-lightweight-kde-desktop-p...

Of course, KDE is open source, so there are many minimal KDE configuration possibilities discussed/recommended in many distro forums.

Reply Parent Score: 5