Linked by Wes Bascas on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 11:00 UTC
Mozilla & Gecko clones Over the weekend, the crew at Tom's Hardware was busy testing the recently-released Firefox 22 using the usual bevy of benchmarks. This roundup included Chrome 27, Firefox 22, IE10, and Opera 12, along with the new Chromium-based build of Opera Next (alos known as Opera 15).
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RE: Comment by lucas_maximus
by bassbeast on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 21:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by lucas_maximus"
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

I have noticed that too and it has GOT to be the Gecko engine, because both IceDragon and Pale Moon do similar "senior moments" as I call them.

But for me it could be the fastest browser on the planet but until it supports low rights mode its just too risky for my customers. there are plenty of bugs like the "Yahoo Porn Bug" which will not work in any other browser, not even IE, that work in FF for me to give it to my customers.

Speed is fine but not when its at the cost of security and having the browser run at the same rights as the user is just dumb,especially when we are talking about a security feature that first came out in windows Vista which is about to become 4 releases ago. It would also probably be trivial to adapt low rights mode to work with AppArmor and SELinux so there really is no excuse not having such a useful security feature.

I have found a good 90% of the infections come from the browser so by having the browser run in lower rights drops infections right off the scale. No way I'm gonna risk my customers for a little speed,no way.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by lucas_maximus
by Fergy on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 22:44 in reply to "RE: Comment by lucas_maximus"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Speed is fine but not when its at the cost of security and having the browser run at the same rights as the user is just dumb,especially when we are talking about a security feature that first came out in windows Vista which is about to become 4 releases ago. It would also probably be trivial to adapt low rights mode to work with AppArmor and SELinux so there really is no excuse not having such a useful security feature.

So this feature only works on vista/win7/win8 with IE? It does not work on linux, winxp, macos, android? And it does not work with Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari?

All those users must be nuts using the web on those machines!

Reply Parent Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Nice straw man, shame if this match were to get too close...whoosh!

Nice attempt at trying to spread FUD but you fail when it comes to browser knowledge, since Chrome as well as any based on it or based on IE ALREADY HAVE low rights mode, in fact the Chromium team added support less than 6 months after the release of Vista.

As for Linux I'm sorry but a simplistic R/W/E schema doesn't cut it, hence why AppArmor and SELinux were created which again it should be trivial to adopt the same mechanism so that Linux could enjoy a low rights browser in SELinux and AppArmor so its really no excuse.

But if you want to claim FF is only usable on Linux fine, do that, but good security practices are good practices and bad is bad, and having the browser run at the same rights as the user is not only bad security practice its just plain stupid. Remove the browser as a vector and malware drops right off the chart, as I have found thanks to low rights mode, but if you want to support bad security practices that is your choice, just as its mine to warn people who may not know all browsers are NOT created equal.

But FYI I haven't used IE in over a decade and I don't recommend IE to my customers, but its kind of sad when even IE has better security practices than FF which is the case now. Use Chrome,Chromium, Comodo Dragon,SWIron, plenty to choose from that won't make you sacrifice security just to surf the web.

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I have noticed that too and it has GOT to be the Gecko engine, because both IceDragon and Pale Moon do similar "senior moments" as I call them.


I like Firefox's user interface, I dunno what it is, but I prefer it.

But I don't use it for development other than doing CSS anymore since Chrome's tools are far better.

IE9 and 10 IMHO are more than good enough for most people. I've also got well past the stage of evangelising a better browser ... if people have problems they will ask or find a better solution.

Having slightly better performance is great and all but I think there are so many little problems with Firefox these days it is a dubious honour (and for the person who wants to know what these are they are so numerous and odd that I could not possible list them all).

Reply Parent Score: 2

lvl21ogre Member since:
2013-07-04

A combination of Firebug, Chrome, and other dev tools is really the way to go. There are things each can do the others cannot, and even the native Firefox tools have some nice features you shouldn't overlook even if you reach for one over the others by default.

Reply Parent Score: 2

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I think the UI is fine, although if we were judging strictly based on UI I would lean towards Pale Moon and IceDragon as they are much less likely to suddenly change, but its the "senior moments" I've found that drive people up the wall when it comes to gecko based browsers.

For those that don't know a "senior moment" is when an OS or program will "hang" or come unresponsive for a few seconds, not enough to call the program hung and attempt a hard shutdown, just long enough to interrupt the workflow and be REALLY annoying. For a good example of this try Vista RTM on a P4 with HT and Speedstep, or firefox now,especially if you have a lot of bookmarks or tabs going.

But I agree there are too many niggling problems with FF for speed to be the primary concern and in fact I've found on the average home connection browser speed is probably the least likely bottleneck, more often its the ISP DNS, line congestion, or bandwidth limitations that will bottleneck the system before the browser does. worrying about browser speed today is like putting a monster GPU into a system that is still running a 4200 RPM hard drive, all that speed isn't gonna fix the other bottlenecks.

Reply Parent Score: 3