Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 5th Nov 2005 17:51 UTC, submitted by AdriAn Avila
Novell and Ximian Rumors circulating that Novell is going to kill off its popular Linux desktop lines are completely false. [However,] Novell is making one large strategic change. The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES and Novell Linux Desktop line. KDE libraries will be supplied on both, but the bulk of Novell's interface moving forward will be on GNOME. "The entire KDE graphical interface and product family will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE."
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RE[3]: Developer's POV
by on Sun 6th Nov 2005 01:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Developer's POV"

Member since:

> crash on me all the time

Care to explain what crashes ? Have you investigated whether the code generated by the C++ compiler you are using actually generated WORKING CODE ? It's a known fact that C++ support within GCC was pretty poor in the past. Most of the time when I read about KDE crashes it most of the time isn't a KDE problem, it's mostly a problem with GCC generating bad code or people overusing CXXFLAGS or whatever.

> the UI is to confusing

I made exactly the oposite experience with the GUI. The GUI is consistent, the toolbar options, features and objects are similar across all KDE applications that use a toolbar. The window components are great too and it's easy to tell people where to find something to have the settings changed to match their needs. At least its much easier than telling someone to use gconftool-2.

> and the applications are useless

What applications are you refering to ? Most applications on the KDE side that I tried and used are quite mature applications. But then it also depends on your needs. I do assume that you are a hobbiest user who doesn't know much about the things that students, science or corporates needs. So I can tell you that programs like Kivio, TaskJuggler, Umbrello, Kstars, Koffice, Kedu, KTechlab and many more are quite mature and great applications. I tried to find aequivalents for GNOME for quite a long time but always failed to find anything that comes close to the software offered for KDE.

When I was student at the university I needed to draw some UML stuff (colaboration diagrams, class diagrams, use case diagrams) and all the stuff around it and DIA which is the only existing application that time, gave me a lot of problems by permanently crashing, by giving really ugly and bad results, by causing a lot of errors during loading and saving etc. I consider that stuff to not to be corporate ready. Not to speak about DIA's printing issues - but that already was enough to get lost with DIA. Umbrellos and Kivio saved my day and they looked and felt the same as known commercial high graded counterparts found for Microsoft Windows.

Also now as IT-Projectmanager I rely on software that simply works, here again Planner comes into my mind which exists for GNOME but compared to TaskJuggler or (MS.Project) it's just a toy and immature. I had to switch over again to KDE to use TaskJuggler to get my work done correctly.

So honestly by all good will, I can not see how KDE offers crappy applications. Either you are quite clueless troll or you simply don't know what's really required in daily business. At least I earn money not from the desktop but the work I give to my customers and I can only accomplish and finish this work by using at least reliable and good software and KDE offers plenty of them. They are not just great applications, their developers do their best to improve the things and the improvements happen in a short time due to the great object oriented background that KDE offers. Great applications to be developed in short time.

> KOffice its a monument to mediocricy

Again I can't follow your critics here and your ramblings aren't backed up with facts either, just random bullshit generated comments. Of course KOffice is far from perfect but the KDE developers do their best (even in these hard times) to offer the best possible solution for the best desktop there is.

> and Konqueror its a slap on my face.

For something you haven't contributed a line code and for something you don't need to pay for you seem to be shouting out quite energic.

Konqueror is basicly nothing else than just a Window (a User Interface) to the great KIOSlave modell beneath KDE. KIOSlaves as well as KParts are one of the biggest strengths that KDE offers. Modules written and easily shareable for other things. Konqueror makes use of the KIOSlave and KParts model and provides a Window for the most common used things such as FTP, WEB, Filebrowsing. But it's just a matter of seconds to access other things such as POP3, SQL and other things from within it. Something Nautilus will never be able to do because it's not laid out to do this kind of tasks (while, it doesn't even do the basic tasks good enought at all).

So seriously, I can't understand the audience here. We can have all disputes we want, we can disagree each others and thats all ok. But I am a bit fed up about the FUD spreading and the false facts that some people like to manifest. This is simply ignorant, wrong and plain idiotic.

At the end KDE and GNOME people are sitting in the same boat (not that just that one SUSE developer got fired, but also plenty of GNOME developers got fired as well - for really essential and critical GNOME components).

Reply Parent Score: 1

v RE[4]: Developer's POV
by Mitarai on Sun 6th Nov 2005 01:13 in reply to "RE[3]: Developer's POV"
RE[5]: Developer's POV
by on Sun 6th Nov 2005 01:17 in reply to "RE[4]: Developer's POV"
Member since:

Mitarai I was replying to an Anonymous person. Now I am wondering why you reply to a comment that wasn't targeted to you - or does it mean you troll around anonymously but then post using different nicks ?

Looking at your user statistics you seem to be one of those who like to post bullshit.

http://www.osnews.com/user.php?uid=2257

29 posted comments and 14 voted down into oblivion.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Developer's POV
by segedunum on Sun 6th Nov 2005 01:24 in reply to "RE[4]: Developer's POV"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

In my experience KDE simple sucks and is a mediocre DE and the developers better come with something better for KDE 4.

OK, it's your experience. Others have come up with solid reasoning as to why it is the best open source desktop today, and why the vast majority of people who use Linux desktops seem to agree. When you're able to do the same, give us a call.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Developer's POV
by on Sun 6th Nov 2005 01:46 in reply to "RE[3]: Developer's POV"
Member since:

ick umbrello and kivio. Kivio was straight up useless and umbrello would spontaneously crash on my slackware system. It makes me wonder if there was this much crying when slackware dropped gnome. It made me switch over to debian. I think slackware dropping gnome hurts WAY more then suse dropping kde. I might try dropline or some alternative but ill hold off on that.

yes the UI for most of the kde toolbar is exceptionally cluttered. Some people like it, some people absolutely hate it. There is no other DE which just throws a barrage of icons at your face then kde.

as for kde crashing, I mean it happens to me. It aint super frequent but a lot of things would tip it off, from kscreensaver to kopete. Gnome never crashed for me unless i run xcompmgr. The number of crashing was the same compared to running kde with kcompmgr......which was really high (someone fix it!!)

When it came to looks. KDE would lliterally make me barf until i did a good bit of tweaking. Had to custom build my own icon set cause the ones that were out were either for 3 year olds or OSX ripoffs....or gceanzze.... those are some good icons but they are only really for mime types. Then i needed kpager2, then mtaskbar, of course the only viable theme was baghira (blatant OSX ripoff but only thing i can stand). At that point, i could at most make running kde bearable, but it got a bit to complex.

I have successfully found gtk-gnome applications that is on par or better then kde applications (and i do a lot of different things on linux). And some of these mono projects are looking really good. From my testing monoUML simply destroys umbrello as does monoDevelop does KDevelop (although KDevelop have more tools here and there). And as i mentioned before i love using beagle and luminosity. Since my computer is a speed machine i use them with no problem. and i like gaim, totem, graveman, bluefish, evolution, and gedit and im still stuck in xmms world even with all the songs i got =).

Although Konqueror is nice, I will honestly tell the kde team to simply give up on koffice. And i hate that monolithic package system. Thank god they now have options to install by app, because there is so much crap that i dont need when using those packages.

Well umm in the end.... i like gnome. leave me alone, because i dont feel any less inferior or productive then the kde camp. Suse picked gnome.....leave them alone because they feel just content with the decision..........or else they wouldnt have made it. There is a reason where they are where theyre at........and you guys are where u are at. Of course the company is not doing spectacular at the moment, but they have focus and bring in their revenue and have way more people that know more than u.

It sucks when a company cant make a damn decision without some crackpot useless flame war starting up. I didnt see the gnome camp spewing this crap when kde was the default for suse..... it would be best if the kde campe return the favor.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Developer's POV
by on Sun 6th Nov 2005 02:03 in reply to "RE[4]: Developer's POV"
Member since:

If you hit random crashes on various KDE applications then you should investigate whether its a compiler issue or not (generating broken code) and from your comment I conclude that this is the case. Try recompiling your KDE without and leet CXXFLAGS primarily -O0 -g and investigate into the backtraces. In case you might want to report to slackware (was it that distro) to throw an eye on their packages.

As for MONO. I can tell you that there are mixed feelings about MONO in the GNOME camp and even amongst the core developers. There are a few who like developing in MONO and there are even companies pushing it and even argue against using JAVA and then there are developers and companies involved into GNOME doing exactly the oposite. I will see hell freeze once MONO becomes part of GNOME. Sadly MONO is a nogo for my personal system because simply for the fact that the license issues with MONO are not clear and I don't know how the future for it looks and what Microsoft is going to say or do in the future. As long as these issues are not cleared I (and many others) are stepping away from it.

Looking at the MONOUML page and reading their HOWTO (and looking at the screenshot provided) the program looks like its in the beginnings of something. KDE's Umbrellos is regulary being worked on, don't depend on MONO and correctly integrates into KDE as a whole. It's possible to export stuff in various languages, import diagrams (xmi), you can do usecases, colaboration diagrams, class diagrams and a few other things as well such as component view and deployment diagrams. And this was already possible a few years ago. Nowadays Umbrello has received many changes and improvements. I regulary keep throwing an eye on it but my personal needs for Umbrello isn't existing anymore due the fact that my university times are over. But maybe I need it again one day in my daily work.

About the toolbar issue you described. I wasn't refering to all the buttons you got thrown to your head. I was more talking about the toolbar object as a whole.

It's one ready written object that exists inside KDE. The toolbar offers the possibility to set buttons, change the toolbar (editor), have the toolbar show up under various ways (text below icons, icons only, text only, text beside icons), then the buttons can be shown with different sizes 16x16, 24x24, 48x48 and so on. Things the GNOME derivates don't offer. That's why you see Evince as well as Epiphany coming with their own toolbar editor while other gnome applications don't offer it. That's why you see so many different types of toolbars and toolbar styles, behavior, features etc. It's not the buttons I talked about, it's the toolbar as a whole and imagine this for many other cool objects that KDE offers.

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot34ji.jpg

You like to throw an eye on that screenshot above.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Developer's POV
by Mystilleef on Sun 6th Nov 2005 06:52 in reply to "RE[4]: Developer's POV"
Mystilleef Member since:
2005-06-29

Ali you are clown. The toolbar is an object/class in GTK+. Developers are at liberty to set it up however they like. As usual, spouting bullocks you know nothing about.

Reply Parent Score: 2