Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 31st Jul 2013 14:12 UTC
Internet & Networking From The Guardian:

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest reaching" system for developing intelligence from the internet.

This is not PRISM - but a different system. The slides are damning, as always.

It validates claims made by Edward Snowden, and makes it clear that US government officials have been lying all along. There's no court order required for any of this - in a supposedly modern democracy. Crazy.

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RE[4]: Comment by kwan_e
by kwan_e on Fri 2nd Aug 2013 00:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kwan_e"
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

If you think the gun nuts are on the side of the NSA, then you woefully misunderstand either the gun nuts, or the NSA.


Sorry, but the polls suggest that most Americans support the NSA. There is no reason to think the wider political spectrum is not reflected in the gun-toting demographic. Sure, they may be skewed more towards libertarianism, but that still a sizeable chunk of gun-toting pro-fascist nuts.

Furthermore, many gun nuts are Christian conservatives more concerned about Muslims and Atheists than they are about the government. In fact, they wish to be the government and impose their brand of religion as law.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by kwan_e
by Morgan on Fri 2nd Aug 2013 02:50 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kwan_e"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Sorry, but the polls suggest that most Americans support the NSA.


You keep saying that, but you don't cite anything to back it up. A quick search for "NSA spying poll" on startpage.com (anonymizes the search so it's not affected by what I've searched for before) shows polls with mostly anti-spying sentiment. A few examples:

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/25-12

http://www.policymic.com/articles/53767/nsa-surveillance-scandal-th...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/multiple-new-polls-show-americ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/12/poll-rep...

The one poll that lines up with your statement was done by MSNBC and was immediately and widely panned.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by kwan_e
by kwan_e on Fri 2nd Aug 2013 04:19 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by kwan_e"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

"Sorry, but the polls suggest that most Americans support the NSA.


You keep saying that, but you don't cite anything to back it up.
"

Sure, I accept that.

Doesn't override my point that you can't assume that the allegiance of most gun owners will be against the NSA though.

Conservative Christians make up a large proportion of gun owners, and they think the NSA is only used to spy in terrorists/Muslims.

Again, maybe I'm pulling the numbers out of my arse.

The question is, how do you know that most gun nuts are anti-government or anti-snooping?

If you really think that it's reasonable to assume that all gun owners will somehow move in a coordinated way and you'll be able to take down the government, you must realize how stupid you are.

Edited 2013-08-02 04:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by kwan_e
by Dasher42 on Fri 2nd Aug 2013 11:39 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kwan_e"
Dasher42 Member since:
2007-04-05

Sorry, but the polls suggest that most Americans support the NSA. There is no reason to think the wider political spectrum is not reflected in the gun-toting demographic. Sure, they may be skewed more towards libertarianism, but that still a sizeable chunk of gun-toting pro-fascist nuts.


The polls that are just as rigged as the elections, you mean? That's just manufactured consent. The US corporate media puts Soviet-era Pravda to shame.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by kwan_e
by kwan_e on Fri 2nd Aug 2013 12:30 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by kwan_e"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

I grant that. But that just proves you don't have the correct estimate of the numbers either.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by kwan_e
by glarepate on Sat 3rd Aug 2013 23:52 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by kwan_e"
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

As Morgan pointed out, kwan_e's claim is not supported by actual poll results.

Which means that if you are right and the poll results are faked, assuming that they come from corporate media (so Washington Post, yes, EFF, no), then the gun nuts do support the NSA based on the fact that kwan_e's claim is bogus.

Does your head hurt yet? ;-)

What do you suppose it means that the EFF poll agrees with the Washington Post? Are the independent sources and big media both wrong because they agree with each other? Then what conclusion would that imply?

Can this be twisted a just little bit harder to reverse the logical outcome of it one more time?

Give it a shot.

Reply Parent Score: 2