Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 6th Aug 2013 17:55 UTC, submitted by MOS6510
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

In product lore, high profile gadgets that get killed are often more interesting than the ones that succeed. The Kin, the HP TouchPad, and the Edsel are all case studies in failure - albeit for different reasons. Yet in the history of those killings, nothing compared to the Apple Newton MessagePad. The Newton wasn't just killed, it was violently murdered, dragged into a closet by its hair and kicked to death in its youth by one of technology’s great men. And yet it was a remarkable device, one whose influence is still with us today. The Ur tablet. The first computer designed to free us utterly from the desktop.

'First' is debatable, but this was definitely an interesting product. It was far too complex though, and the simpler, more focussed Palm Pilot then showed the market how mobile computing ought to work - something Apple took to heart a decade later with the iPhone.

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RE[6]: Comment by tupp
by tupp on Wed 7th Aug 2013 17:39 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by tupp"
tupp
Member since:
2006-11-12

You are aware that innovation is not invention, aren't you? There is a very clear legal distinction.

No, there isn't. That's BS. Just because someone found a secondary definition of "innovation" on an online dictionary, doesn't change the accepted (nor "legal") meaning of the word.


One is application and the other one is creation.

Application of an idea from one thing to another is a common (and legally accepted) form of invention.

Such application of ideas can be original and non-obvious (or vice versa). Apple has very few original/non-obvious applications of ideas -- they don't really invent anything.


Apple is great at innovation, there is no question here.

I am not sure to what Apple characteristic you refer with your definition of "innovation." You can define innovation however you like, that won't change the fact that Apple doesn't really innovate anything.


But there are a lot of areas in technology that the debates over who was first are no less heated.

There's no heat here, except from those who are trying to avoid getting down to the nitty-gritty. Have you anything to add to the list of items that Apple innova... originated?

Edited 2013-08-07 17:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by tupp
by ezraz on Wed 7th Aug 2013 18:37 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by tupp"
ezraz Member since:
2012-06-20

I am not sure to what Apple characteristic you refer with your definition of "innovation." You can define innovation however you like, that won't change the fact that Apple doesn't really innovate anything.

But there are a lot of areas in technology that the debates over who was first are no less heated. There's no heat here, except from those who are trying to avoid getting down to the nitty-gritty. Have you anything to add to the list of items that Apple innova... originated?


Apple originated the idea that mass-produced machines should work the way humans want them to.

Apple originated the idea that mass-produced computers have a market at all.

Apple originated the idea that there is a such thing as superior product design and getting 95%+ satisfaction ratings from paying customers.

Apple originated the idea that all of their devices just work together without random driver updates.

Apple seems to be the only computer company these days willing to use real sales numbers, not shipped but not sold numbers.

Apple originated the idea that you can sell a product with just the right amount of features.

Apple originated good technology. Sorry you are so mad about it. My day is full of using my technology, I have a feeling yours if full of fighting with yours.

I program, produce, propagate, and consume all day and night from a mac, and have been running macbooks without a single hardware problem for about 10 years straight now. I run them hard too, moving to about 15 locations a week to work.

That's not marketing friend, that's production. Go into production centers of most companies and you see macs. Freelancers with no time to spare. People on deadlines with paying clients use macs more so than others, and it was that way even before itunes, ipods, iphones, and ipads. This consumer thing is relatively new for apple.

Edited 2013-08-07 18:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[8]: Comment by tupp
by JAlexoid on Thu 8th Aug 2013 12:20 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by tupp"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Apple seems to be the only computer company these days willing to use real sales numbers, not shipped but not sold numbers.

Apple's sold is more of a lie, than Samsung's shipped.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by tupp
by JAlexoid on Thu 8th Aug 2013 12:18 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by tupp"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

No, there isn't. That's BS. Just because someone found a secondary definition of "innovation" on an online dictionary, doesn't change the accepted (nor "legal") meaning of the word.

Actually the legal terminology has been established for more than a century.
Application of a technology is innovation, concrete implementation of an abstract idea is invention.
Example: using backlit LCD panels instead of reflective LCD panels in phones is innovation.
As opposed to: using liquid crystals to regulate the intensity of light passing through them is an invention.

Application of an idea from one thing to another is a common (and legally accepted) form of invention.

No way. There is a very clear requirement for the inventive step to be present. As in - you have to adapt the existing technology and only that adaptation is protected.
Like adding a second, less powerful, radio to a phone to conserve energy when the radio station is close by. The radio itself is not protected, but the switching, detection and use of two radios is.

You can define innovation however you like, that won't change the fact that Apple doesn't really innovate anything.

That's like - your opinion. They invent and innovate, less than fanbois like to shout about and more than people like you like to say. (One of their recent inventions is their display tech in iPhone5)

There's no heat here, except from those who are trying to avoid getting down to the nitty-gritty.

You probably have never been present at any discussions between automotive fanbois...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Comment by tupp
by tupp on Fri 9th Aug 2013 01:11 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by tupp"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Actually the legal terminology has been established for more than a century. Application of a technology is innovation, concrete implementation of an abstract idea is invention.

No. You are just making that up.

Anything legal regarding inventions comes under patent law. Please quote/link the patent statutes that support your statement.


Application of an idea from one thing to another is a common (and legally accepted) form of invention.

No way. There is a very clear requirement for the inventive step to be present. As in - you have to adapt the existing technology and only that adaptation is protected.

Uh, yes. My statement is correct.

Part of your statement is correct, too -- if you apply an idea to an existing invention, you don't have any claims on the existing invention. That's just common sense.

However, your "adaptation" (I used the term application) is an invention that can be patented with you holding claims on it.

There are countless examples of patented inventions that are an idea from one field applied to another. The key is that the application must be novel (non-obvious).

Apple doesn't have a lot of novel applications of ideas.


You can define innovation however you like, that won't change the fact that Apple doesn't really innovate anything.

That's like - your opinion. They invent and innovate, less than fanbois like to shout about and more than people like you like to say. (One of their recent inventions is their display tech in iPhone5)

Okay. If you really believe that Apple invents and innovates (originates novel ideas), all you have to do is make a simple, orderly list of such items.

Edited 2013-08-09 01:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Comment by tupp
by zima on Sat 10th Aug 2013 15:10 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by tupp"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Like adding a second, less powerful, radio to a phone to conserve energy when the radio station is close by.

Are there phones which do that?

Reply Parent Score: 2