Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Aug 2013 10:39 UTC
In the News Another checkmark in our road towards a totalitarian society: government intimidating the free press, destroying materials, and threatening to take them to court - to shut down a newspaper. No joke. The British government demanded that The Guardian hand over all materials related to Edward Snowden so that they could be destroyed. If the newspaper did not comply, the British government would go to court to shut down The Guardian.

The mood toughened just over a month ago, when I received a phone call from the centre of government telling me: "You've had your fun. Now we want the stuff back." There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more."

During one of these meetings I asked directly whether the government would move to close down the Guardian's reporting through a legal route - by going to court to force the surrender of the material on which we were working. The official confirmed that, in the absence of handover or destruction, this was indeed the government's intention.

The newspaper told the government that even if they did comply, it would be pointless - all the materials related to Snowden had already been spread throughout the world, the actual editing was done in New York, the journalist in question (Greenwald) lived in Brazil - but the British government stood fast.

And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian's long history occurred - with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian's basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. "We can call off the black helicopters," joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.

Yeah.

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RE: Talk about overblown
by kwan_e on Tue 20th Aug 2013 11:41 UTC in reply to "Talk about overblown"
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

The government demands their stolen property back


In a democracy, the people are the government. It should not even be talked about in terms of "property".

and suddenly their a totalitarian regime?


The totalitarian aspect is the far-reaching invasion of privacy, you dumbass. They were totalitarian before they tried to get back the documents.

Look I find the snowden documents immensely damning, but at the end of the day, it is still stolen property, and it is still within their rights to demand it back.


The government is not a private enterprise. Information can't be stolen by the people who own it (the public).

We shouldn't allow our biases for snowden to cloud that simple fact.


Your comment contained approximately -1 fact. It was so useless you've actually hastened the heat death of the universe with the energy your brain wasted on its stupidity.

Reply Parent Score: 25

v RE[2]: Talk about overblown
by Noremacam on Tue 20th Aug 2013 11:43 in reply to "RE: Talk about overblown"
RE[3]: Talk about overblown
by kwan_e on Tue 20th Aug 2013 11:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Talk about overblown"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

If the people expect a certain level of privacy for government affairs, then the argument still stands.


If.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Talk about overblown
by Gone fishing on Tue 20th Aug 2013 14:13 in reply to "RE: Talk about overblown"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

you've actually hastened the heat death of the universe with the energy your brain wasted on its stupidity.


Sometimes in the midst of tragedy a light moment lifts the heart - your comment might have been it. This slow collapse of western civilization, reason and enlightenment into a dull grey, bureaucratic, "reasonable" totalitarianism is so boring and depressing.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Talk about overblown
by BallmerKnowsBest on Tue 20th Aug 2013 17:28 in reply to "RE: Talk about overblown"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

"The government demands their stolen property back


In a democracy, the people are the government. It should not even be talked about in terms of "property".
"

Not to worry, they can always just claim the material falls under Crown copyright:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_copyright

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Talk about overblown
by ilovebeer on Thu 22nd Aug 2013 03:51 in reply to "RE: Talk about overblown"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

In a democracy, the people are the government. It should not even be talked about in terms of "property".


No, not even close. The people are not the government. The government is a body of elected and appointed persons who are supposed to act in the interest of the states. People elect state officials. The president, for example, is not elected by the people. He/she is elected by electors who are not obligated to vote in agreement with the states majority opinion. The people have very little to do with government and the actual governing of the country.

Also a government absolutely can have property and ownership of things. Being a citizen doesn't entitle you to it directly or indirectly.

Look I find the snowden documents immensely damning, but at the end of the day, it is still stolen property, and it is still within their rights to demand it back.

The government is not a private enterprise. Information can't be stolen by the people who own it (the public).

The public doesn't own those documents any more than they own stealth fighters. The public has no right of ownership what-so-ever to those documents.

We shouldn't allow our biases for snowden to cloud that simple fact.

Your comment contained approximately -1 fact. It was so useless you've actually hastened the heat death of the universe with the energy your brain wasted on its stupidity.

The a pretty bold criticism you have of him considering how confused you are as to what a democratic government is and its relation to the people.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Talk about overblown
by kwan_e on Fri 23rd Aug 2013 02:09 in reply to "RE[2]: Talk about overblown"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

The government has no rights of ownership over my emails and phone calls, yet they keep them.

So it's all right for you if the government steals personal information from its citizens, but not okay for citizens to steal them back.

You are a fucking moron.

Reply Parent Score: 2