Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 23rd Aug 2013 08:37 UTC
Linux

Pretty much for my entire career in Linux USB (eight years now?), we've been complaining about how USB device power management just sucks. We enable auto-suspend for a USB device driver, and find dozens of different USB devices that simply disconnect from the bus when auto-suspend is enabled.

For years, we've blamed those devices for being cheap, crappy, and broken. We talked about blacklists in the kernel, and ripped those out when they got too big. We've talked about whitelists in userspace, but not many distros have time to cultivate such lists.

It turns out it's not always the device's fault.

Fascinating bug.

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RE[3]: The fix
by deathshadow on Sat 24th Aug 2013 08:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The fix"
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

What is kind of fun is that, devices that somehow worked on other systems where dismissed as faulty. Usually if something work for others but not for your system the first suspicion should go to your system.

... and you just outlined a behavior that has been RAMPANT among *nix developers for DECADES now. You are quite correct -- if the same hardware using software built off the same spec doesn't work in one, but does in all others, the implementation should be the FIRST thing you look at.

I'd not be surprised if ALL the devices that have problems in Linsux, even when ALLEGEDLY supported are not victim to similar problems. Lord knows two thirds of what I own for hardware is either crippled far below it's full capabilities (video for example) or doesn't work at all (networking, sound, APM/ACPI controlled cooling) trying to use any *nix as a desktop OS -- which is only PART of why I consider 'mainstream' Linux and it's BSD kin to be pathetically useless crippleware as a desktop OS.

You see the same thing in Web development, where people writing websites will blame the browsers for their own ineptitude... be it jumping the gun on specifications not even out of draft, using outdated methodologies proven time and time again not to work, slapping endless "gee ain't it neat" crap at a site before they even have the core functionality working, or worst of all just can't pull their heads out of 1997's arse using things we've been told for fifteen blasted years to STOP USING!

Really across the board in programming this is a rampant problem I've seen time and time again -- where the people writing software don't actually seem to take the time to understand the language they are writing in, the specifications they are writing against for hardware, or even the point of the task they are trying to implement.

... and mostly the cause seems to be an apathy that finds it's roots in laziness, comfort, and wishful thinking. Of course, when you dare to point these things out you're an 'alarmist' or 'unfairly harsh' -- reality is harsh, deal with it! Have a problem with that, do the world a favor and go flip burgers for a living!

Helen: Daria, do you have to cast everything in such a negative light?

Daria: You mean the harsh light of reality?

Edited 2013-08-24 08:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: The fix
by Alfman on Sat 24th Aug 2013 18:32 in reply to "RE[3]: The fix"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

deathshadow,

"I'd not be surprised if ALL the devices that have problems in Linsux, even when ALLEGEDLY supported are not victim to similar problems."

Put this into perspective. The reality is that most linux users are NOT running on linux certified hardware, meanwhile many still having the expectation that linux should run as though it were officially supported, never mind if it's 3rd party code with no official support whatsoever. IMHO this is one of the bigger problems WRT linux drivers, most manufacturers aren't cooperative leaving 3rd party developers to reverse engineer the product.



"You see the same thing in Web development, where people writing websites will blame the browsers for their own ineptitude..."

Haha, Sure many exist who are incredibly inept. However every experienced web developer will have faced the agony caused by quirks and inconsistent rendering between browsers requiring asinine workarounds. It may be getting better, but things can still break due to browser problems.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: The fix
by porcel on Mon 26th Aug 2013 12:38 in reply to "RE[3]: The fix"
porcel Member since:
2006-01-28

Your experience does not match mine at all.

My hardware has been perfectly stable for the last 10-13 years.

Of course, I research what I buy thoroughly. Never had a problem. In fact, the driver situation for me is a lot better in linux than in any other OS.

I donĀ“t have to be hoping that the manufacturer of a MFP decides to stop supporting it, such as HP did with the HP laserjet 2480 where in Windows 7 64-bit you can no longer scan from the network.

I can list dozens of devices that have met the same fate.

It works beautifully and perfectly in linux. So I have had abandoware "drivers" in Windows time and time again, and ever-improving drivers in Linux. To me, the choice is simple.

Reply Parent Score: 1