Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 26th Aug 2013 14:52 UTC
Windows

Nokia is preparing to back Windows RT by launching a 10.1-inch tablet soon. Sources familiar with Nokia's plans have revealed to The Verge that the tablet, codenamed Sirius, will be launched shortly. While prototype pictures of the device leaked earlier this month, we understand that the final design more closely resembles Nokia's Lumia Windows Phone products.

Nice specifications, but Windows RT. Nobody wants Windows RT, and for good reason. I say this from experience: Windows RT is horrible. It offers nothing over iOS (let alone Android), Metro applications are side projects riddled with bugs, performance issues, and bad design, and the platform barely plays third fiddle compared to iOS and Android, so developers have little interest in it. On top of that, virtually everyone has abandoned Windows RT.

But, I'm pretty sure some people will tell us this tablet will turn Nokia around.

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RE[5]: Comment by _cynic_
by Nelson on Tue 27th Aug 2013 03:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by _cynic_"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29


You can stop being so disingenuous about the numbers about a product that by all measures is a complete and total failure that single handedly took one of the best and largest market share phone companies and nearly forced them out of the market.


Complete and total failure with double digit volume growth quarter over quarter and year over year, you have a peculiar definition of failure.

However, in the interest of not rehashing arguments I've brought up in literally every Nokia thread (which is ignored and often lost on the delusional) I'll leave you to believe what you wish and we'll revisit the topic when their quarterly results show another volume increase and further stabilization of financials.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Comment by _cynic_
by allanregistos on Tue 27th Aug 2013 05:43 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by _cynic_"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

"
You can stop being so disingenuous about the numbers about a product that by all measures is a complete and total failure that single handedly took one of the best and largest market share phone companies and nearly forced them out of the market.


Complete and total failure with double digit volume growth quarter over quarter and year over year, you have a peculiar definition of failure.

However, in the interest of not rehashing arguments I've brought up in literally every Nokia thread (which is ignored and often lost on the delusional) I'll leave you to believe what you wish and we'll revisit the topic when their quarterly results show another volume increase and further stabilization of financials.
"

Nelson, I have not read almost all your posts. But let us take this simply with a question:

Do you consider Windows RT Tablet(Yes, tablet only) a success in the past up to the present? Please explain if your answer is yes.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by _cynic_
by Nelson on Tue 27th Aug 2013 11:37 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by _cynic_"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I consider Windows RT to have had a mixed reaction. Microsoft did move a deal of Surfaces at very high margins, but they shouldn't have. If they were going to write down a billion dollars, one would argue they should've subsidized the devices on that cost and gone for a volume play to build out the Windows 8 ecosystem.

There were some missteps along the way. Messaging got royally fucked up and Microsoft being Microsoft didn't do much about it. They let the story get away from them. There's also lukewarm OEM reactions because they're all approximately useless, but it also was because of performance problems with some of the chips inside the tablets.

There's no excuse for some of their mistakes I think, but I similarly think that the reception to them was lukewarm at worst. They didn't completely flop in the market (Surface sold through decent, they wrote down future expectations and unsold inventory, which isn't mutually exclusive with selling a decent amount).

I think its in the same situation Windows Phone was in 2011. Promising, written off, and at the same time misunderstood. If Nokia can do for RT what they did for Windows Phone they can kick this thing into gear.

First a few things need to happen:
- Microsoft needs to unify WP8 and WinRT. Two strategies, two ecosystems, and two platforms (however close they are) doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. That needs to change.
- Microsoft needs to become more platform agnostic, which will help Windows Phone. Stop thinking in terms of vendor lock in and start thinking in terms of service lock in. Hook someone on Office on an iPad, then show them how great it is on a Surface. Get someone using Outlook on Android so that when they do try a Lumia it's not a jarring transition.

Those are just my own personal opinions, a little rambly, but take it as you wish.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by _cynic_
by enx23 on Tue 27th Aug 2013 08:02 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by _cynic_"
enx23 Member since:
2008-12-17

Complete and total failure with double digit volume growth quarter over quarter and year over year, you have a peculiar definition of failure.


I think that you Nelson have a very peliculiar definition of failure!

It is very easy to get double digit volume growth quarter over quarter when one has small numbers. By this definition if one sells one mobile phone today and another 50 next quarter will have triple digit volume growth! I think that according to these kind of measures the company Jolla (see www.jolla.com) will look even better than Apple, Samsung! Jolla will have an infinite volume growth quarter over quarter (some number divided by zero)!

"Double digit volume growth quarter over quarter and year over year" can be seen very often when one has less than 5% of the market!

Here are some more appropiate measures of failure:
- Nokia had over 30% of the market in 2010 and now it has 3%-4% of the market => 10 fold decrease for Nokia!
- Windows Mobile has ~12% of the market (during Gates time) and now the Windows Phone has 3%-4% of the market => clearly the todayƤ's strategy of Windows for mobile phones is even worst than in Gates' times!
- Nokia was number one mobile manufacturer of smartphones in 2010 and today is number 10!

Edited 2013-08-27 08:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by _cynic_
by Nelson on Tue 27th Aug 2013 11:31 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by _cynic_"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

It is very easy to get double digit volume growth quarter over quarter when one has small numbers.


But Nokia does not have small numbers. Nokia went from 5.6 million to 7.4 million units in a quarter. That is not small. Maybe compared to every single Android OEM combined that's small, but if you look at the other Android OEMs (besides Samsung, obviously) they are posting similar types of volumes. Nokia is in the ballpark. So if Nokia is a failure, then the other OEMs have failed as well.


By this definition if one sells one mobile phone today and another 50 next quarter will have triple digit volume growth!


That's nice, but Nokia did not sell one, or 50 phones. They sold 7.4 million. This quarter its expected to increase by double digits again, as it has for the past few quarters.


I think that according to these kind of measures the company Jolla (see www.jolla.com) will look even better than Apple, Samsung! Jolla will have an infinite volume growth quarter over quarter (some number divided by zero)!


If Jolla posts strong QoQ gains, then it does imply that they are getting a strong reception relative to their own volumes. I'd be encouraged and others should too. I was encouraged when it was Lumia shipments going from 2 to 4 million, and I am encouraged when its from 5.6 to 7.4 million.

can be seen very often when one has less than 5% of the market!


5% of a very large market is still a large amount of units to sell, and when speaking about the impact it will have on Nokia's health and stability moving forward, it was a good bet.

If you look at their bottom line sans one time restructuring costs, they've posted strong underlying profits since Q3 of last year. That' significant and as these costs sunset at the end of 2013, you'll begin to see this materialize in IFRS profit.


Here are some more appropiate measures of failure:
- Nokia had over 30% of the market in 2010 and now it has 3%-4% of the market => 10 fold decrease for Nokia!
- Windows Mobile has ~12% of the market (during Gates time) and now the Windows Phone has 3%-4% of the market => clearly the todayƤ's strategy of Windows for mobile phones is even worst than in Gates' times!
- Nokia was number one mobile manufacturer of smartphones in 2010 and today is number 10!


Everybody knows Nokia is no longer #1, and that's fine, they don't have to be and aren't going to be for a while. This is about managing a very risky transition and setting them up for the future, which, like it or not is happening. Their devices are gaining traction, they are gaining marketshare, and the ecosystem is being fleshed out. It was the right bet.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Comment by _cynic_
by bnolsen on Wed 28th Aug 2013 02:15 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by _cynic_"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

if you want to read and read and read about nokia you can visit this blog:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/

The best point this guy brings out is that bill gates even identified windows phone as a failure during a public interview. So while nelson argues technicalities the business side definitely points to failure of windows phone and nokia falling far far short of expectations.

Reply Parent Score: 1