Linked by Eugenia Loli on Mon 7th Nov 2005 00:10 UTC, submitted by Rob Teng
Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris In light of the many misunderstandings about Linux, software repositories and installation of packages, part one of this season's Mandriva Linux 2006 review includes an extensive background article about it. It explains why the nature of Free Software leads to a more userfriendly software installation setup for Linux distributions in general, as compared to proprietary systems such as the current desktop market leader. The process is illustrated with Mandriva Linux tools. This first part of the Mandriva Linux 2006 review also contains information on the installation and benchmark figures against previous Mandriva/Mandrake products, amongst other things.
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RE[6]: thumbs down
by Temcat on Mon 7th Nov 2005 14:51 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: thumbs down"
Temcat
Member since:
2005-10-18

Riiight, and ALL those packages have the version that you need.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: thumbs down
by on Mon 7th Nov 2005 15:31 in reply to "RE[6]: thumbs down"
Member since:

Riiight, and ALL those packages have the version that you need.

Exactly ! That's what zealots have a hard time understanding with package managers.
The package manager is there to PROTECT the NOVICE user !
The very day you need sth outside of the repository, that means you want to become an advanced user.
For example, trying the latest dev version of sth, or an obscure niche app.
I never saw an average user lacking a package.
The package manager can't be compared to anything on Windows, because it actually protect the user, which is never the case in Windows, where you can install no matter what. Sometimes, a Windows installer will try a hack and bail out if a version of sth is not up to date, but that's all.
In Linux distros, the package manager will prevent you from even installing an app, if it can't handle it.
Of course, you have ways to bypass it if you are smarter than the package manager. But you actually have to be smarter, and I think that's what is frustrating so much zealots : they realise they were not so smart, and find themselves stuck. So, as they can't blame themselves (they are so smart), they blame the package manager which tried to protect them.
That's why you won't see people blaming the package manager, cite which app they tried to install, because they would look like trolls and morons. Because, most of them tried to install things that were already in the package manager, or tried installing some obscure niche app (which require not being a newbie to be installed).
I'm pretty convinced of all that, specially when the only problem zealots can find against package management is : what if it is not in the repository. The answer is simple enough : ask your distro provider or the app provider for a package.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[8]: thumbs down
by Temcat on Mon 7th Nov 2005 16:37 in reply to "RE[7]: thumbs down"
Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

The answer is simple enough : ask your distro provider or the app provider for a package.

Sure, and they of course will drop all the rest of their present affairs and devote their attention to me :-)

I've had that trouble myself. My distro only had Gimp 2.0 while I wanted to install 2.2. I asked them to no avail. So the repo system failed for me in this case. "Change your distro" is not the answer.

BTW you seem to somehow infer that I deny usefulness of repositories as such. That's not the case. The repos have their place and they are a great convenience for the user. At least for the core system software, they are clearly superior to the Windows' auto update system. But they do have their limitations: 1) inherent security of all software from repositories (EDIT: compared to the upstream versions) is a myth; 2) they don't contain ALL software that is produced, and the software they do contain does not always have the version a user needs.

Edited 2005-11-07 16:41

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: thumbs down
by on Mon 7th Nov 2005 22:14 in reply to "RE[6]: thumbs down"
Member since:

{ALL those packages have the version that you need}.

So far they have been, and I have about 1400 packages installed.

That is a lot of software. Most of it comes stright off the distro install CD.

It is also about 50 times more functional "out-of-the-box" than any Windows OS install I have ever done.

I use KANOTIX - live CD with HD install, installs about 1350 packages - installs from scratch in about 15 minutes and just one re-boot - no additional drivers or application CDs required - guaranteed free of malware - does not require registration or activation or CD keys typed in - has no known viruses "in the wild" and can be used safely on the internet "out-of-the-box" - and as the thread topic points out is supported via Debian repositories with an additional 15000+ packages on line, easily searchable, available from one easy-to-use interface and guaranteed free of malware.

Reply Parent Score: 0