Linked by MOS6510 on Sun 6th Oct 2013 10:59 UTC
Apple

This wasn't Grignon's typical route to work. He was a senior engineer at Apple in Cupertino, the town just west of Campbell. His morning drive typically covered seven miles and took exactly 15 minutes. But today was different. He was going to watch his boss, Steve Jobs, make history at the Macworld trade show in San Francisco. Apple fans had for years begged Jobs to put a cellphone inside their iPods so they could stop carrying two devices in their pockets. Jobs was about to fulfill that wish. Grignon and some colleagues would spend the night at a nearby hotel, and around 10 a.m. the following day they - along with the rest of the world - would watch Jobs unveil the first iPhone.

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ezraz
Member since:
2012-06-20

Bill Gates will probably be revered. Steve Jobs will probably be remembered as some guy who briefly worked with Steve Wozniak.


Whatever. Every last one of you would be using technology far less sophisticated and well-designed now if it wasn't for Steve Jobs and his ranting personality. He didn't accept that certain things couldn't be done. He didn't accept that his company couldn't complete this task. He wasn't afraid to tell someone they can do better. Finally, he had enough business sense to fund all this stuff in the marketplace, not in a lab.

Where are the stories of Samsung or Nokia or Motorola holing up 1000 high-salary engineers for 2.5 years to design completely new products?

Apple isn't a fashion company, but it's the first computer company to acknowledge that fashion, when applied to tech, is called design, and without good design you have a nerdy box of nerd stuff that only nerds can use. Nerds are cool, I guess I am one, but there will always be more non-nerds than nerds based on the definition of a nerd.

For some reason Apple seems to be the only tech company that looks at well designed items from the past for inspiration. There is a lot of 20th century camera, watch, aviation, and even firearm technology in Apple's mobiles.

Everyone else is about the new box with new specs - replaceable tech. Purchase Purchase Purchase new stuff! Once you've bought? Please buy a new one. Not much support on that old one. That old one is OLD haha!

Tomorrow I'm finally upgrading a 3G from 2008 to a 5C. That 3G has been to the Apple store for a (free) checkup once in 5 years.

So much Apple jealousy that manifests as hate, but the market is wide open to build better devices and treat customers better than Apple does. Look at Samsung - they can rip off the designs, they can build almost as good as Apple, yet their support and product lifecycles don't get close. My friends will burn through 5 Samsungs in the time I use 1 iPhone - probably good for Samsung's bottom line, but not good for much else.

--

Re: Bill Gates verse Steve Jobs. You can't attack Jobs & Apple for 'copying and improving' while still giving credit to Bill Gates' Microsoft. They built their entire empire on a completed QDOS that they bought for $50k and then licensed to IBM. Killer business move but not much in the way of engineering prowess. Windows itself was a direct reaction to not being able to get into Apple's new Mac OS (Apple contracted them for apps only, no OS work, and MS immediately launched the Windows project). What are the amazing engineering feets by Microsoft? Where did they push the industry forward? When did something come out of their labs (not purchased) that changed the world?

Edited 2013-10-07 14:38 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

When did something come out of their labs (not purchased) that changed the world?


ever heared of windows?
or office?
maybe internet explorer?

Edited 2013-10-07 15:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

ezraz Member since:
2012-06-20

"When did something come out of their labs (not purchased) that changed the world?


ever heared of windows?
or office?
maybe internet explorer?
"

Huh? No I've never heard of them. What was so groundbreaking about them? What was fresh and new? Nothing. I don't know if you were around in 1985 or not, but believe me there is nothing that impressive about Office or Windows except sales.

See Visicalc running on Apple II. Or better yet see the PFS group of products.

I had an atari xe in 1985 with an "office suite" and a printer. Big deal.

Reply Parent Score: 2

unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Every last one of you would be using technology far less sophisticated and well-designed now if it wasn't for Steve Jobs and his ranting personality. He didn't accept that certain things couldn't be done. He didn't accept that his company couldn't complete this task. He wasn't afraid to tell someone they can do better. Finally, he had enough business sense to fund all this stuff in the marketplace, not in a lab.


Akio Morita was doing this at Sony long before Steve Jobs was born.

Where are the stories of Samsung or Nokia or Motorola holing up 1000 high-salary engineers for 2.5 years to design completely new products?


Nokia and Samsung did have thousands of engineers developing new products - they just didn't boast about it. Apple products use Samsung memory, screens and processors.

Apple isn't a fashion company, but it's the first computer company to acknowledge that fashion, when applied to tech, is called design, and without good design you have a nerdy box of nerd stuff that only nerds can use. Nerds are cool, I guess I am one, but there will always be more non-nerds than nerds based on the definition of a nerd.


More BS. Many companies were combining tech and excellent design long before Apple even existed - Fender, Braun, Sony, Panasonic, Philips and Bose spring to mind.

For some reason Apple seems to be the only tech company that looks at well designed items from the past for inspiration. There is a lot of 20th century camera, watch, aviation, and even firearm technology in Apple's mobiles.


More crap. Have a look at all he retro cameras and retro digital radios on the market.

Everyone else is about the new box with new specs - replaceable tech. Purchase Purchase Purchase new stuff! Once you've bought? Please buy a new one. Not much support on that old one. That old one is OLD haha!


How is Apple different?

Tomorrow I'm finally upgrading a 3G from 2008 to a 5C. That 3G has been to the Apple store for a (free) checkup once in 5 years.


If you want to pay a lot of money for a 12 month old phone go ahead.

So much Apple jealousy that manifests as hate, but the market is wide open to build better devices and treat customers better than Apple does.


Sensible people don't fall for Apple hype.

Look at Samsung - they can rip off the designs, they can build almost as good as Apple, yet their support and product lifecycles don't get close. My friends will burn through 5 Samsungs in the time I use 1 iPhone - probably good for Samsung's bottom line, but not good for much else.


Your'e iPhone has a SAMSUNG CPU. It is made in China by Foxconn. How is it vastly superior?

--

Re: Bill Gates verse Steve Jobs. You can't attack Jobs & Apple for 'copying and improving' while still giving credit to Bill Gates' Microsoft. They built their entire empire on a completed QDOS that they bought for $50k and then licensed to IBM. Killer business move but not much in the way of engineering prowess. Windows itself was a direct reaction to not being able to get into Apple's new Mac OS (Apple contracted them for apps only, no OS work, and MS immediately launched the Windows project). What are the amazing engineering feets by Microsoft? Where did they push the industry forward? When did something come out of their labs (not purchased) that changed the world?


You're obviously totally delusional so it's not worth arguing with you.

Edited 2013-10-07 23:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Dano Member since:
2006-01-22

Wow that guy is still caught up in the Job's reality distortion field. I mean I respect Apple's accomplishments, but I can't stand it when Apple users rant about how amazing Apple products are, especially when they never bring any actual technical facts about the products into the conversation.

I can't decide if Apple fanboys are as rabid as Linux fanboys sometimes.

Reply Parent Score: 3

ezraz Member since:
2012-06-20

"[q]Every last one of you would be using technology far less sophisticated and well-designed now if it wasn't for Steve Jobs and his ranting personality. He didn't accept that certain things couldn't be done. He didn't accept that his company couldn't complete this task. He wasn't afraid to tell someone they can do better. Finally, he had enough business sense to fund all this stuff in the marketplace, not in a lab.


Akio Morita was doing this at Sony long before Steve Jobs was born.
"

So what? Another person's existence doesn't discredit what Jobs did in his time.

"Where are the stories of Samsung or Nokia or Motorola holing up 1000 high-salary engineers for 2.5 years to design completely new products?


Nokia and Samsung did have thousands of engineers developing new products - they just didn't boast about it. Apple products use Samsung memory, screens and processors.
"

Known fact, and parts from many other vendors. Do you think Samsung has 1000's of engineers working on their iPhone knockoffs?

"Apple isn't a fashion company, but it's the first computer company to acknowledge that fashion, when applied to tech, is called design, and without good design you have a nerdy box of nerd stuff that only nerds can use. Nerds are cool, I guess I am one, but there will always be more non-nerds than nerds based on the definition of a nerd.


More BS. Many companies were combining tech and excellent design long before Apple even existed - Fender, Braun, Sony, Panasonic, Philips and Bose spring to mind.
"

Again, you are proving my point, not disproving. Is there only room for 1? Or are you admitting that previous successful companies used "design" to sell more products?

"For some reason Apple seems to be the only tech company that looks at well designed items from the past for inspiration. There is a lot of 20th century camera, watch, aviation, and even firearm technology in Apple's mobiles.


More crap. Have a look at all he retro cameras and retro digital radios on the market.
"

Nope, I'm not talking about knockoff plastic retro stuff or low-run specialty items. I'm talking about actually constructing and assembling products that become a new staple design going forward. I know they couldn't make an iphone in 1965 for various reasons. Plastic shaped like 1965 with modern guts is not what I'm talking about. Sony is one of the only ones I put on par with Apple hardware in the electronics space. Then there's Braun and other german builders. Also a lot of swiss watchmaker influence in Apple's recent hardware.

"Everyone else is about the new box with new specs - replaceable tech. Purchase Purchase Purchase new stuff! Once you've bought? Please buy a new one. Not much support on that old one. That old one is OLD haha!


How is Apple different?
"

How many times do I have to say that iPhones last longer, and keep their owner happier for longer? This means less thrown away or returned. Basic stuff here.

"Tomorrow I'm finally upgrading a 3G from 2008 to a 5C. That 3G has been to the Apple store for a (free) checkup once in 5 years.


If you want to pay a lot of money for a 12 month old phone go ahead.
"

As broke as I am $45 @ walmart is not expensive.

"So much Apple jealousy that manifests as hate, but the market is wide open to build better devices and treat customers better than Apple does.


Sensible people don't fall for Apple hype.
"

Sensible people just get their work done and don't argue about this chit online.

"Look at Samsung - they can rip off the designs, they can build almost as good as Apple, yet their support and product lifecycles don't get close. My friends will burn through 5 Samsungs in the time I use 1 iPhone - probably good for Samsung's bottom line, but not good for much else.


Your'e iPhone has a SAMSUNG CPU. It is made in China by Foxconn. How is it vastly superior?
"

The total design is what is vastly superior, not pieces parts. [REPEAT MYSELF A MILLION TIMES]. Why do you think a CPU, Screen, Case makes a smartphone? It ain't specs man, it's usability, reliability, and total cost of ownership.

--

"Re: Bill Gates verse Steve Jobs. You can't attack Jobs & Apple for 'copying and improving' while still giving credit to Bill Gates' Microsoft. They built their entire empire on a completed QDOS that they bought for $50k and then licensed to IBM. Killer business move but not much in the way of engineering prowess. Windows itself was a direct reaction to not being able to get into Apple's new Mac OS (Apple contracted them for apps only, no OS work, and MS immediately launched the Windows project). What are the amazing engineering feets by Microsoft? Where did they push the industry forward? When did something come out of their labs (not purchased) that changed the world?


You're obviously totally delusional so it's not worth arguing with you.
" [/q]

Yeah and I've been hearing about how apple is a flash in the pan, just a trend, just about fashion for about 30 years now, so who's delusional?

Edited 2013-10-09 19:22 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

nicholasj Member since:
2008-12-10

There are actually plenty of decent examples of Microsoft releasing solid innovative products and doing reasonable computer science. Products which appeal to my taste? Not usually. The first two Xboxen were pretty great, Windows 7. ClearType, F#, LINQ, the last few Office releases (excepting bloody Outlook) have been highly usable and pretty solid. And MS peripheral hardware is usually excellent.

But, my original comment was about the men themselves, and the way they are perceived now and in the future. The Good Wife had a nice vignette which captured this; (TGW is a terrific legal procedural which covers some pretty in-depth tech and IP law issues, remarkable for a US mainstream drama) A tinpot-dictatorial character is acting in an abrupt and boorish manner, and it's revealed his behaviour is due to him "reading the Jobs biography".

Essentially, Jobs was an inspirational and skilled Product Manager. Not unique, not unprecedented and not very nice. Let's just try for some perspective, eh?

Reply Parent Score: 2