Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Nov 2013 18:48 UTC, submitted by Rohan Pearce
OSNews, Generic OSes

MenuetOS sits in an interesting nexus between astonishing technical achievement and computerised work of art. The super-speedy, pre-emptive multitasking operating system is still, despite adding more driver support, more included applications, an improved GUI and digital TV support over the years, capable of fitting on a floppy disk (assuming you can find one).

MenuetOS is a technical marvel. Not only is it written entirely in assembly, it also shoves a fully capable multitasking operating system on a single floppy disk.

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Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 21st Nov 2013 19:15 UTC
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This fancy OS proves that all these layers between the computer and the user written in all these high(er) level programming languages waste an enormous amount of CPU and memory recourses.

It's not so amazing what some old computers like an Amiga and Commodore 64 could/can do, but more disappointing how modern computers perform.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by saso on Fri 22nd Nov 2013 00:09 in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
saso Member since:

This fancy OS proves that all these layers between the computer and the user written in all these high(er) level programming languages waste an enormous amount of CPU and memory recourses.

It's often times not the languages per se, but more the way programmers handle computing resources. Sure Java and C# are at times bloated (because the programmers who wrote those also were wasting resources), but take any near-machine language like C or (parts of) C++ and you can easily get close to or match the speed of any hand-written assembly implementation, at a fraction of the time requirements and with far fewer bugs. Keep in mind that 10% of your code runs 90% of the time, so the key is to focus your resources on what really matters, rather than taking either extreme approach (all high-level, or all assembly).

In regards to MenuetOS, the main reason why modern OSes tend to be so large is because:
a) they contain tons of multimedia (high-res icons, full CD-quality tunes, etc)
b) they simply do a lot (there's almost zero extra cruft in a kernel, almost all of it is executable code that actually does something)
It's possible to compromise on a), but if you want to actually get things done, you don't want to lose b). And no, compiler-produced assembly is not inherently slower and/or larger. What most do is give developers options to choose from (would you like this loop to be small or fast?).

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 22nd Nov 2013 09:12 in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:

Thanks for the insightful comment!

I also think there is another factor and that is hardware limitations. The Commodore 64 and Amiga, for example, had limited hardware and certainly in the case of the C64 near impossible to upgrade.

So code was written to run well on those machines. Programmers came up with tricks to improve performance or use less memory. With PCs came a period where you were just required to add memory, a faster CPU, bigger hard disk, a new PC. Now I think were are in an age where the hardware is often more than enough to run most applications without breaking a sweat, so there's no incentive for programmers to make code efficient or smaller. They code something and it works fine, so why spend time optimizing it?

Honestly it's hard to blame them and I would do the same thing.

But then you see (and hear) a demo run on a 1 Mhz Commodore 64 with 64 kB of RAM and you start to wonder if your modern computer should't be able to run much much faster.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by twitterfire on Fri 22nd Nov 2013 19:33 in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
twitterfire Member since:

And I have to ad that modern compilers optimize better than a programmer can optimize the ASM by hand.

There's really no reason why you should use ASM instead of C or C++ on a PC.

Long time ago compilers weren't as good at optimizing the code as today and you could do interesting stuff under DOS in ASM. That's why I learned and wrote a bit of x86 assembly many years ago. But I can be much more productive in C, C++.

As I understand, this is a hobby OS, so the guys who are wroting this do it for fun. The choice of the language doesn't matter if you do it for fun.

Reply Parent Score: 3