Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Dec 2013 18:06 UTC
Linux

"Joining the Linux Foundation is one of many ways Valve is investing in the advancement of Linux gaming," Mike Sartain, a key member of the Linux team at Valve said. "Through these efforts we hope to contribute tools for developers building new experiences on Linux, compel hardware manufacturers to prioritize support for Linux, and ultimately deliver an elegant and open platform for Linux users."

Mark my words: Valve will do for Linux gaming what Android did for Linux mobile. Much crow will be eaten by naysayers in a few years.

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Android did for Linux?
by Ithamar on Wed 4th Dec 2013 19:15 UTC
Ithamar
Member since:
2006-03-20

You mean fork Linux (the kernel), use as little GPL software as possible, and minimise feeding changes back to upstream?

I sincerely hope (and looking at TFA, suspect) Valve will do much better ;-)

Reply Score: 5

RE: Android did for Linux?
by kurkosdr on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:09 in reply to "Android did for Linux?"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

You mean fork Linux (the kernel), use as little GPL software as possible, and minimise feeding changes back to upstream?

You mean avoid dealing with the Linux upstream cabal in order to ship the product in time, scrapping the 20 year old cruft sitting above the linux kernel (X.org, the mess that is Linux audio) while building a more streamlined userland better suited to smartphones, and getting their patches rejected by the upstream cabal (wakelocks)?

Nokia tried to play by the rules with MeeGo, and look what happened to them. Everyone was shipping their new mobile OSes by Q4 2010, Nokia wanted MeeGo to put it in the Nokia N8, but MeeGo wasn't ready so the N8 shipped with freaking Symbian. Nokia themselves admitted "technical difficulties" with MeeGo as the reason for the huge delays. By the time they had hammered around the issues, the investors were getting impatient and Elop happened. Android would have been yet another perpetually in beta no-show if it had been based on "real linux".

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Android did for Linux?
by Ithamar on Wed 4th Dec 2013 21:33 in reply to "RE: Android did for Linux?"
Ithamar Member since:
2006-03-20

You mean avoid dealing with the Linux upstream cabal in order to ship the product in time, scrapping the 20 year old cruft sitting above the linux kernel (X.org, the mess that is Linux audio) while building a more streamlined userland better suited to smartphones, and getting their patches rejected by the upstream cabal (wake locks)?


I have enough real life experience to know that _being_ upstream on product release might not be feasible (although possible), but not working with upstream at all, even after the fact, is quite different.

What was released on the first device had been years in the making, and in that time a lot could have been done with upstream. Even when not doing that, doing it after the fact is still very doable.

Nokia tried to play by the rules with MeeGo, and look what happened to them. Everyone was shipping their new mobile OSes by Q4 2010, Nokia wanted MeeGo to put it in the Nokia N8, but MeeGo wasn't ready so the N8 shipped with freaking Symbian. Nokia themselves admitted "technical difficulties" with MeeGo as the reason for the huge delays. By the time they had hammered around the issues, the investors were getting impatient and Elop happened. Android would have been yet another perpetually in beta no-show if it had been based on "real linux".


Nokia was shipping "tablet" products before Android even existed ;) The fact that they screwed up says more about Nokia management then anything else....

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Android did for Linux?
by oiaohm on Wed 4th Dec 2013 23:44 in reply to "RE: Android did for Linux?"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

kurkosdr even google developers behind wakelocks end up openly seeing what the major defects are with them. Of course people like you also overlook that Motorola submitted quickwakeup around the same time and there was an existing framework in the Linux kernel(prior Linux mobile phone projects partly responsible for the pre existing.).

So it was not just the Linux Upstream. Android Makers were infighting with themselves how wakelocks should be implemented. Yes the flamefest was not just Linux community vs Google. It was Google vs Motorola vs some other Android makers vs the Linux Community. The good thing that came out of this was a stack of test cases.

http://www.elinux.org/Android_Power_Management Long and brutal.

https://lwn.net/Articles/479841/ Linux 3.5 in the end merges this all most all the features of both solutions and compatible with the already in kernel framework. Also passes all the failure cases that could ruin you with Google Wakelocks or Motorola quickwakeup or Suspend blockers.

Sorry based on real Linux does not have to be a no show. In fact it never was.

www.openmoko.org kurkosdr pre-dates the existence of Meego or Android. Openmoko is a Full GNU/Linux phone. X11 included. Released on time and functional.

Nokia was trying to make something Symbian application compatible with Meego.

Even with all the crud of X11 a mobile phone was more than possible.

So how can you say Android would have been yet another perpetually in beta no-show if it was real linux based. The fact google was making their own new framework method following the Openmoko kind of style it would have worked if it was not for another reason.

Android was designed to be less restrictively licensed. Google did a lot of things to avoid restrictively licensing some got them sued by Sun. The major barrier to openmoko Linux was the fear of GPL by phone makers at the time.

Sailfish OS the descendant of Meego is going forwards quite well now. Particularly that it does not have the compatibility conditions nokia was asking for.

Just go and look at what Nokia did to symbian. When the worked out Linux kernel could not be bent to emulate symbian they tried wrapping QT over it.

Nokia was not exactly playing by the rules with Meego either. Magical patch submissions without decent explanation why caused a lot to bounce.

Nokia big problem with Meego was attempting to make two incompatible designed OS's be able to use each other application source code without alteration. So costing them more time than if they had just rewrote particular applications from the start line.

Over all most of google android patches did merge. There were just a few key ones that did not.

Reply Parent Score: 9