Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Dec 2013 18:06 UTC
Linux

"Joining the Linux Foundation is one of many ways Valve is investing in the advancement of Linux gaming," Mike Sartain, a key member of the Linux team at Valve said. "Through these efforts we hope to contribute tools for developers building new experiences on Linux, compel hardware manufacturers to prioritize support for Linux, and ultimately deliver an elegant and open platform for Linux users."

Mark my words: Valve will do for Linux gaming what Android did for Linux mobile. Much crow will be eaten by naysayers in a few years.

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Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Wed 4th Dec 2013 19:55 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

Valve will do for Linux gaming what Android did for Linux mobile.


I hope Valve's SteamOS will be better than Android on mobile. Valve didn't create a split and hopefully will be using a regular glibc Linux stack including the graphics (Wayland and etc.). So it will benefit all Linux distros at large in the long run. Android on the other hand created a hard split and benefits only itself.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by shmerl
by 1c3d0g on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:29 in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.

Don't get me wrong, I like choices too, but at the end of the day, IF you want to be taken seriously and have success with your endeavours, one project must be chosen above all and all efforts should be focused on improving that particular choice, instead of the current bickering and infighting that's going on right now.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by woegjiub on Wed 4th Dec 2013 21:22 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

The Linux folks *are* in agreement, if you just ignore one company - Canonical.

X is to be succeeded by Wayland, due to inherent flaws.

SystemD modernises system administration and maintains modularity.

The main thing needed now is for Pulse to be able to usurp the use-cases of JACK and Pulse-less ALSA.


The one thing Canonical are doing right is switching to Qt5 with QML, but GTK3 isn't that bad, and it's not too different to MS's plethora of GUI options.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by oiaohm on Thu 5th Dec 2013 00:13 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.


Ok what etc. X11 is the exist due to age and design there is absolutely no question has to die. Wayland is from x.org project and is the designated successor to X11. Wayland has support of all bar 1 of the major Linux desktop environment and all major video card makers.

Mir/Unity/Ubuntu is the only break away. Has no support from anyone other than Ubuntu including video card makers. Odds of long term success low.

Now 1c3d0g what other etc's. There is nothing.

Lets move on to audio. You are aware back in 1996 there were 12 posix audio servers in use on Linux all incompatible with each other. I mean 100 percent incompatible. Today we are down to 3. The 3 remaining audio servers are pulseaudio and jackaudio and audio-flinger(android only) . All support very different needs. Pulseaudio and jackaudio have a cooperation interface.

Yes a cooperation interface between sound servers was unthinkable in 1996. Why the developers had your foolish logic. You must choose one equals you don't have to cooperate with other projects doing competition things.

1c3d0g there is very little real bickering and infighting really. Mir stuff is mostly that Ubuntu does not want to admit the path they have taken is mostly a no go.

One project chosen before all others does not happen in the FOSS world. What happens is the weaker slowly shows itself and gets crushed.

Pulseaudio is in fact a merge of tech from 6 different sound server projects.

1c3d0g think about it this way. Would it matter if we have 100 different sound servers and a 100 different graphical servers if applications developers only had to worry about 1 ABI/API that worked on them all. To have 1 universal ABI/API required cooperation and test-casing. Not this must choose 1 point of view. Cooperation like what happened with Pulseaudio might lead to project merging and reduction.

Yes I would like to take the heads of graphical and audio world on Linux and lock them in a room with no way out until they had universal consensus.

1c3d0g basically you have to stop repeating garbage. The Linux world is more in consensus today than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Ok the noise being generated is louder. The noise from the wayland camp is so loud because they don't want consensus disrupted.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by olejon on Fri 6th Dec 2013 20:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
olejon Member since:
2012-08-12

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.

Don't get me wrong, I like choices too, but at the end of the day, IF you want to be taken seriously and have success with your endeavours, one project must be chosen above all and all efforts should be focused on improving that particular choice, instead of the current bickering and infighting that's going on right now.


The thing is, that Valve can decide the future of Linux. If they choose to only support Wayland, it will force everyone to use it. They have a lot of power, and it may benefit users and get rid of some of the unnecessary fragmentation.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by shmerl
by Ultimatebadass on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:33 in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

Wayland


There would have to be GOOD (comparable to windows quality) Wayland graphic drivers for both AMD and nVidia (and intel, though those first 2 are more important) for that to happen.

SteamOS is not your average linux distro. It NEEDS to be good from the first release otherwise it's going to be a laughing stock. I hope valve understands that. They are trying to pull people away from windows gaming, if it sucks it's not going to happen.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by Novan_Leon on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:52 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
Novan_Leon Member since:
2005-12-07

I actually think the initial reception of the SteamOS/Steam Machine platform will be very poor.

Valve has always followed the slow-and-steady approach, but they always have a well-defined vision and the patience to stand behind their vision until it comes to fruition. Steam was originally considered a failure, a step-back, but after a couple years people began to warm up to it as Valve slowly-but-surely continued to improve it. I expect something similar to happen with the SteamOS/Steam Machines.

Edited 2013-12-04 20:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by zima on Sun 8th Dec 2013 07:00 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

There would have to be GOOD (comparable to windows quality) Wayland graphic drivers for both AMD and nVidia (and intel, though those first 2 are more important)

Intel is probably more important than those two, Intel GFX is becoming "good enough" for more and more people.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by shmerl
by CapEnt on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:37 in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

Android had to split itself to thrive.

Back in 2009~2010 the Linux kernel, and several other components of the GNU ecosystem, was all but suitable for mobile (even today it still do not sorted off his power management issues in laptops, just to give a idea), and with the tight schedules of product shipping these days, there was no time to play the politics required to adapt all components and push back the patches to community before using.

Valve on other hand don't need to do any of that. The changes that Valve needs to to on Linux are minimal. His distro will be desktop oriented, all components needed for gaming development is already in place, and developing software on Linux these days is a bliss. The only thing lacking is a descent display server, but this is questionable. Perhaps better IDEs are needed, but this is a non-issue for many developers, more a matter of taste and development style.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by moondevil on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:44 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

And yet there were already quite a few handset manufactures using Linux based OSs, before Android was released to the world.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Wed 4th Dec 2013 21:21 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

No, it didn't have to split to thrive. Android was created as a closed system, they didn't care about Linux community or any synergy with it. Then Google bought it and "opened" it somewhat. But the split remained.

Edited 2013-12-04 21:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by Ithamar on Wed 4th Dec 2013 21:35 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
Ithamar Member since:
2006-03-20

Android had to split itself to thrive.

Back in 2009~2010 the Linux kernel, and several other components of the GNU ecosystem, was all but suitable for mobile (even today it still do not sorted off his power management issues in laptops, just to give a idea), and with the tight schedules of product shipping these days, there was no time to play the politics required to adapt all components and push back the patches to community before using.


TomTom had been shipping plenty of mobile devices running Linux, and so did many other vendors, so this is large overstated.

Valve on other hand don't need to do any of that. The changes that Valve needs to to on Linux are minimal. His distro will be desktop oriented, all components needed for gaming development is already in place, and developing software on Linux these days is a bliss. The only thing lacking is a descent display server, but this is questionable. Perhaps better IDEs are needed, but this is a non-issue for many developers, more a matter of taste and development style.


Agreed with this though ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3