Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Dec 2013 18:06 UTC
Linux

"Joining the Linux Foundation is one of many ways Valve is investing in the advancement of Linux gaming," Mike Sartain, a key member of the Linux team at Valve said. "Through these efforts we hope to contribute tools for developers building new experiences on Linux, compel hardware manufacturers to prioritize support for Linux, and ultimately deliver an elegant and open platform for Linux users."

Mark my words: Valve will do for Linux gaming what Android did for Linux mobile. Much crow will be eaten by naysayers in a few years.

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RE: Comment by shmerl
by 1c3d0g on Wed 4th Dec 2013 20:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
1c3d0g
Member since:
2005-07-06

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.

Don't get me wrong, I like choices too, but at the end of the day, IF you want to be taken seriously and have success with your endeavours, one project must be chosen above all and all efforts should be focused on improving that particular choice, instead of the current bickering and infighting that's going on right now.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by woegjiub on Wed 4th Dec 2013 21:22 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

The Linux folks *are* in agreement, if you just ignore one company - Canonical.

X is to be succeeded by Wayland, due to inherent flaws.

SystemD modernises system administration and maintains modularity.

The main thing needed now is for Pulse to be able to usurp the use-cases of JACK and Pulse-less ALSA.


The one thing Canonical are doing right is switching to Qt5 with QML, but GTK3 isn't that bad, and it's not too different to MS's plethora of GUI options.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Comment by shmerl
by vicdavery on Thu 5th Dec 2013 08:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by shmerl"
vicdavery Member since:
2012-11-30

Overall I do agree that the Linux audio stack is a mess, and embarrassing after all this time.

However, I would much rather see Pulse disappear to be replaced by JACK.
Pulse has caused nothing but problems since day 1. In my opinion JACK is far superior not just for latency but also flexibility.
I can't ever see Pulse being able to cover the low-latency area and supporting the Pro-Audio segment.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by oiaohm on Thu 5th Dec 2013 00:13 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.


Ok what etc. X11 is the exist due to age and design there is absolutely no question has to die. Wayland is from x.org project and is the designated successor to X11. Wayland has support of all bar 1 of the major Linux desktop environment and all major video card makers.

Mir/Unity/Ubuntu is the only break away. Has no support from anyone other than Ubuntu including video card makers. Odds of long term success low.

Now 1c3d0g what other etc's. There is nothing.

Lets move on to audio. You are aware back in 1996 there were 12 posix audio servers in use on Linux all incompatible with each other. I mean 100 percent incompatible. Today we are down to 3. The 3 remaining audio servers are pulseaudio and jackaudio and audio-flinger(android only) . All support very different needs. Pulseaudio and jackaudio have a cooperation interface.

Yes a cooperation interface between sound servers was unthinkable in 1996. Why the developers had your foolish logic. You must choose one equals you don't have to cooperate with other projects doing competition things.

1c3d0g there is very little real bickering and infighting really. Mir stuff is mostly that Ubuntu does not want to admit the path they have taken is mostly a no go.

One project chosen before all others does not happen in the FOSS world. What happens is the weaker slowly shows itself and gets crushed.

Pulseaudio is in fact a merge of tech from 6 different sound server projects.

1c3d0g think about it this way. Would it matter if we have 100 different sound servers and a 100 different graphical servers if applications developers only had to worry about 1 ABI/API that worked on them all. To have 1 universal ABI/API required cooperation and test-casing. Not this must choose 1 point of view. Cooperation like what happened with Pulseaudio might lead to project merging and reduction.

Yes I would like to take the heads of graphical and audio world on Linux and lock them in a room with no way out until they had universal consensus.

1c3d0g basically you have to stop repeating garbage. The Linux world is more in consensus today than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Ok the noise being generated is louder. The noise from the wayland camp is so loud because they don't want consensus disrupted.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by shmerl
by Brendan on Thu 5th Dec 2013 04:41 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by shmerl"
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

These are (were?) symptoms of a larger problem.

It doesn't matter if its X vs. wayland, or KDE vs. Gnome, or Qt vs. GTK, or Python 2 vs. Python 3, or various different package managers, or changes in "/dev", or different init/runlevel scripts, or different CRON daemons or....

It's a loose collection of pieces that happen to work together sometimes (if distro maintainers throw massive quantities of effort into fixing all the breakage and most software handles the hassle of many different alternative dependencies); and it is not a single consistent set of pieces that were all designed to work together. There is nobody in charge that can say "this is the standard from now on", or "these are the APIs/libraries that will remain supported for the next n years", or "yes, this alternative is technically better but not enough to justify the compatibility problems it will cause and therefore that alternative will not be included in any distribution".

- Brendan

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by olejon on Fri 6th Dec 2013 20:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
olejon Member since:
2012-08-12

If the Linux folks can't even agree on something as basic as a f*cking graphics server (X, Wayland, Mir etc.), I say don't hold your breath. Let's not even get started on the audio stack.

Don't get me wrong, I like choices too, but at the end of the day, IF you want to be taken seriously and have success with your endeavours, one project must be chosen above all and all efforts should be focused on improving that particular choice, instead of the current bickering and infighting that's going on right now.


The thing is, that Valve can decide the future of Linux. If they choose to only support Wayland, it will force everyone to use it. They have a lot of power, and it may benefit users and get rid of some of the unnecessary fragmentation.

Reply Parent Score: 2