Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Dec 2013 18:06 UTC
Linux

"Joining the Linux Foundation is one of many ways Valve is investing in the advancement of Linux gaming," Mike Sartain, a key member of the Linux team at Valve said. "Through these efforts we hope to contribute tools for developers building new experiences on Linux, compel hardware manufacturers to prioritize support for Linux, and ultimately deliver an elegant and open platform for Linux users."

Mark my words: Valve will do for Linux gaming what Android did for Linux mobile. Much crow will be eaten by naysayers in a few years.

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oiaohm
Member since:
2009-05-30

The only way to get a large number of games built to play on Linux (SteamOS) is to build a good cross platform competitor to DirectX. It needs to be easy to use and high performance. Once they get it built they need Nvidia and AMD to include it in their chips.


Ok what are you smoking. What you are requesting done and been done for years.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQzNTA
SDL and Opengl cover Direct X. Wayland support is planed for SDL 2.0.1. SDL also provides all the wrappers to the Linux different sound systems and graphical.

Valve is funding SDL development and Steam Linux Runtime includes SDL. Also SDL is used by quite a few major games.

The problem on Linux has had bugger all todo with ABI. OpenGL drivers on Linux not supporting threading major performance hit. This is not a opengl issue either this has been a video card maker issue.

So all valve needs is video card makers to release decent drivers for Linux.

AMD's Mantle is also being talked about being platform neutral just not video card maker neutral.

Reality break here valve has todo nothing to make new high performance ABI's all valve has todo is create a market for AMD and Nvidia to fight over. Then let AMD and Nvidia do what they do best and select the Winner to be included in the Steam Linux Runtime.

AMD Nvidia and other parties making graphics cards are the major writers of Opengl.

Good api/abi starts with the video card maker not the other way around.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

So all valve needs is video card makers to release decent drivers for Linux.


I wouldn't hold your breath. ATI and NVidia do try to provide drivers; but both the kernel developers and X developers are constantly breaking them (changing APIs). After years of having their work broken by morons (who can't create a standard and stick to it), I can't understand why ATI and NVidia haven't given up on Linux completely.

- Brendan

Reply Parent Score: 0

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Intel is even more funny.

They are supposedly the best contributor to Linux GPU drivers and X development.

Yet their OpenGL drivers are always behind their DirectX ones and the Linux ones are worse than their Windows ones.

For long time, their graphics performance analyzers were only targeted for Windows/DirectX developers. Situation that only changed when they started to support Android in x86 processors.

Talk about half-hearted contributions.

Reply Parent Score: 4

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Out of curiosity, Could you point the numerous and constant changes to the APIs in linux recently?

Reply Parent Score: 2

oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

I wouldn't hold your breath. ATI and NVidia do try to provide drivers; but both the kernel developers and X developers are constantly breaking them (changing APIs). After years of having their work broken by morons (who can't create a standard and stick to it), I can't understand why ATI and NVidia haven't given up on Linux completely.


Brendan this is a complete lie. Linux Kernel breakages with Nvidia and ATI have in fact in all cases traced to them depending on behaviour that was not defined in the Stable API of the Linux kernel. Stable ABI is also exported to user-space. Functions exported to userspace making up the Stable ABI if they are every broken they will be fixed in a kernel revison. So no the Linux kernel cannot be in this list.

Nvidia and ATI have got into some trouble for bad coding behaviour. Like it was never good coding behaviour to just use the big kernel lock instead of creating your own. This busted ATI. Nvidia broken due to saying that page sizes will always be 8Kb. The standard api did not say either. In fact it said it was platform definable with a look up function that told you how big the current page size was.

The kernel side of the Nvidia and ATI drivers does not break that often. Yes and almost all cases have been something that should not have been done in the first place. There are functions in the linux kernel marked GPL only as well. These are not stable and are only fore drivers include as part of the main Linux kernel.

Nvidia is getting wiser with age. Like recently needing dma-buf making sure it was exported to user-space with a interface that would be stable.

X developers thinking nvidia designed bypasses to most of the X11 stack instead of fixing it.

The change of X11 API for drivers is in fact slower than Microsoft speed. Brendan so I do not get where you get this constantly changing api bit from. Look at the time frames of DRI 1 and DRI 2 and DRI 3. Please note they over lap with each other. For a very long time.

ABI changing is a lot more common.

Brendan X11 DRI driver compatibility in X11 is a 10 year thing for each version. DRI1 has only recently started being nuked. DRI1 drivers from 1998 still work on the 1 version of X11 where DRI1 will be removed.

Nvidia issue with X11 is hooking into functions that are not part of X11 DRI driver interfaces. Yes random-ally hooking into stuff is a way to get burnt.

Brendan yes the reason why Nvidia and ATI have not walked away from Linux is most of the trouble they have had is their own fault for not working with upstream and not using the upstream provided interfaces.

This has been the big problem most of the argument against Linux on drivers is bogus.

Reply Parent Score: 4

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

What are you smoking? I said COMPETES.

OpenGL sucks to work with. Look at the number of games that work with SteamOS. it is far smaller than the number that work with windows. The reason is DirectX.

Yes, if Mantle becomes popular then NVidia will release their own version and developers will just focus on those two APIs and we can just expect Linux drivers to be created by AMD and Nvidia. In that case Valve needs to do nothing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

You must be joking. Tell me some reasons OpenGL sucks to work with.

Reply Parent Score: 2

oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

OpenGL sucks to work with. Look at the number of games that work with SteamOS. it is far smaller than the number that work with windows. The reason is DirectX.


What do you think is the base of the Wii and the Playstations. That is right Opengl. What about all those Android games Opengl again. Those platforms don't have Direct X. In fact there are still a lot of games in steam that do have OpenGL support that are not ported off windows yet.

SteamOS and Steam on Linux is a newish platform. There are more games out there with a Opengl Base than there are Direct X games.

Opengl does compete with Direct X quite successfully.

Sorry to say you have a completely invalid view of the world. Direct X dominance on Windows is nothing more than an abnormality.

Reply Parent Score: 3