Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 9th Dec 2013 22:43 UTC
Windows

Two changes supposedly coming to the next version of Windows, according to veteran Paul Thurrott:

Metro apps running in windows on the desktop. As you can today with third-party utilities such as ModernMix, the next version of Windows will let users optionally run Metro apps in floating windows on the desktop.

Start menu. After bringing back the Start button in Windows 8.1, Microsoft will take the next logical step in the next Windows version and make the Start menu available as an option. It's possible this will appear only on those product versions that support the desktop.

This would be Microsoft admitting they got Windows 8 all wrong.

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hamster
Member since:
2006-10-06


No it isn't, this is a screenshot from my PC of Word 2007:

http://i.imgur.com/1pF9gS3.png?1

Each item is logically grouped, each set of insert types are grouped by type and are clearly labelled. You can see it in the screenshot. Each grouping is self evident.

Maybe if you can't read it would be a problem.


So you find the one clean one and make claims from that one? Look at the home tab and tell me thats clean.


Oh comon. Tabs are hardly Microsoft centric, as I previously said they have been on the web easily for the last 10 years. It is a well known.


I have only seen this Ribbon failure on microsoft systems. There are tabs in my browser yes but it os not nearly as complex as a wysisg text editor

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

So you find the one clean one and make claims from that one? Look at the home tab and tell me thats clean.


Statement made previously:

It's most likely grouped the same way in the ribbon interface. Only now it's a huge mess on each tab..


I can't win with you guys, the home tab:

http://i.imgur.com/YkP7VXu.png

You will notice:

* Font settings and style is in the font grouping
* Paragraphs settings and style is in the paragraph grouping
* Style settings are in the Styles group.

I could go on for every grouping ... but I won't.

Again each section is clearly labelled, and everything is logically grouped.

Compare this to Word 2003:

http://www.mokonamodoki.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/word03_files...

I honestly cannot fathom why anyone would think the Word 2007 ribbon interface isn't logical and well thought compared to what was there before.

If you are going to blather on about familiarity, as far as I am concerned it is fifth monkey effect.

http://jeffhurt.com/monkey.html

Edited 2013-12-10 13:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

If you are going to blather on about familiarity, as far as I am concerned it is fifth monkey effect.

Agreed. You've gotten so use to arguing that MS is perfect and so used to defending their cluster-f--ks that you can't even remember why it is that you like them. You just defend them because you've always defended them.

For what it's worth, I hate the ribbon bar too. Whether it's because I'm used to the old menu based system or whether it's because ribbon really is a mess - the fact remains that I can never find a sodding thing in any of the applications that use ribbon yet I can find stuff quickly in any menu based application even when I've not used it in years. So as far as I'm concerned, ribbon slows productivity and raises my stress levels - which much means ribbon fails to address the fundamental problems it set out to solve.

Edited 2013-12-10 14:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

The problem with the ribbon is that you have 4 (if not more) different sizes of icons. Some sections have 1 row, some 2 rows, some 3 rows of icons, all next to each other, with different vertical spacing. Some sections have icons linked together, others have them separated by whitespace. Some sections have drop-downs mixed in with icons. All with multiple different fonts being used.

IOW, it's visual vomit, and very hard to pick anything out without slowly reading every ... single ... icon ... over ... and ... over ... trying to find something.

And, it's all animated. Things move around when you click and hover and drag.

If there were 2 sizes of icons, and 2 rows per section, and proper spacing and alignment, and 1 font type/size, then maybe the ribbon would be useful.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Treza Member since:
2006-01-11

Okay, another ribbon hater here.

I used to have a single icon bar with the features I used the most, it occupied less area than the ribbon. Dynamic toolbars appeared as needed (for drawing,...).

My issues with the ribbon:
- Poor discoverability and organisation. There are many places to click and hidden dialogboxes and menus. For example : How to set the grid in PowerPoint ? There are both old style dialogboxes and pop-down non modal fields. Inconsistent.
- Hardcoded. Non user configurable. Many people use Office with all sort of crazy macros, which cannot be inserted gracefully into that bloody ribbon.
- Terrible when the width of the application is reduced. New, unfamiliar and useless icons appears...
- Word: Stylesheets. Braindamaged. Encourages modifying letters instead of setting styles.
- Bad for keyboard navigation. Microsoft never helped to learn key sequences.

There are many other issues I won't bother detailing.

The right click popupmenu and icons are really a missed opportunity. IMHO, Microsoft should have made the icon set of this menu user configurable and dynamic. For the remaining functions, menus, and text search of commands...

Reply Parent Score: 4

hamster Member since:
2006-10-06



Statement made previously:

"It's most likely grouped the same way in the ribbon interface. Only now it's a huge mess on each tab..


I can't win with you guys, the home tab:

http://i.imgur.com/YkP7VXu.png

You will notice:

* Font settings and style is in the font grouping
* Paragraphs settings and style is in the paragraph grouping
* Style settings are in the Styles group.

I could go on for every grouping ... but I won't.

Again each section is clearly labelled, and everything is logically grouped.

Compare this to Word 2003:

http://www.mokonamodoki.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/word03_files...

I honestly cannot fathom why anyone would think the Word 2007 ribbon interface isn't logical and well thought compared to what was there before.
"

Look at the pictures again and tell me which picture is the cleanest. Why would i want to look at stuff i am not gonna use? Lets say i would like to do a heading (styles). Then i can not see the relevans of the other 4 items



If you are going to blather on about familiarity, as far as I am concerned it is fifth monkey effect.

http://jeffhurt.com/monkey.html


No i am leaving Windows behind...

The reason i do not like the ribbon is that it's a huge mess when people like my self only use office 2-3 times a month.

Reply Parent Score: 3