Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 18th Dec 2013 20:47 UTC
Apple

Apple today announced the all-new Mac Pro will be available to order starting Thursday, December 19. Redesigned from the inside out, the all-new Mac Pro features the latest Intel Xeon processors, dual workstation-class GPUs, PCIe-based flash storage and ultra-fast ECC memory.

This thing is so damn awesome. I don't need it, but I still want one.

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RE[3]: Comment by v_bobok
by fmaxwell on Fri 20th Dec 2013 01:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by v_bobok"
fmaxwell
Member since:
2005-11-13

Just buy an i7, a crossfire motherboard, two high end gaming cards and regular RAM. The performance will be just as good. Workstation hardware is no faster for multimedia work.


Core i7 CPUs don't handle ECC RAM, which is why you don't see them in servers or workstation class systems.

I realize that most consumers think that unbuffered, non-ECC RAM is fine and that there's no need for RAID storage. Most people in the market for workstations and servers would tend to disagree.

As to SLI consumer video cards, there is a significant bit of CAD and engineering software that won't even start up on it. In other cases, packages like Lightwave and Maya are achieving 2x-3x the framerate when running on the workstation GPU (compared to the equivalent consumer gaming GPU).

There are plenty of cases and cooling soutions that can easily achieve 20dB under load.

I have not found them. Most individual fans are louder than 20dBA.

Apparently, reviewers aren't used to computers at quiet as the 2013 Mac Pro. Tech Crunch ran an article entitled "Hands On: Apple’s New Mac Pro Is An Insanely Quiet Thermal Wizard." Tech Radar's review included "We were impressed at just how quiet the new Mac Pro is."

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by v_bobok
by unclefester on Fri 20th Dec 2013 04:12 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by v_bobok"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Core i7 CPUs don't handle ECC RAM, which is why you don't see them in servers or workstation class systems.

I realize that most consumers think that unbuffered, non-ECC RAM is fine and that there's no need for RAID storage. Most people in the market for workstations and servers would tend to disagree.


A Mac pro is not going to be used for mission critical engineering design, mathematical simulations or as a server by any sane professional.

Workstations use ECC RAM and workstation grade cards primarily for piece of mind and legal indemnity - not performance.

As to SLI consumer video cards, there is a significant bit of CAD and engineering software that won't even start up on it.


This is because the software manufacturer effectively offers legal indemnity for use in mission critical design situations such as aircraft and large-scale structural design. They are stating that their software is only guaranteed to work correctly when combined with certain hardware. The software checks that is using the "correct" hardware at startup to protect the software company against lawsuits.

Many CAD applications such as AutoCAD will run perfectly on consumer grade hardware. My brother is surveyor/civil engineer for a large government body. They replaced all their workstations over 20 years ago with whitebox PCs because none of their CAD work (surveying, unpaved access roads and minor earth works) is considered risky or mission critical.

You can buy a $2 engine bolt form an auto parts store that is absolutely identical to an $800 aircraft bolt. The only difference is the aircraft bolt comes comes with paperwork certifying it for aviation use and offering legal indemnity against defects. In other words you pay $2 for the aircraft bolt and $798 "insurance" against defects.


Apparently, reviewers aren't used to computers at quiet as the 2013 Mac Pro. Tech Crunch ran an article entitled "Hands On: Apple’s New Mac Pro Is An Insanely Quiet Thermal Wizard." Tech Radar's review included "We were impressed at just how quiet the new Mac Pro is."


The ambient noise in a very quiet office is >40dB. The noise levels in a normal office frequently exceed 65dB.

My 8yo AMD 4000+ machine (Antec Sonata case and a quiet modular PSU) can only be heard by placing your ear directly against the case. Since the case in under the desk this is a moot argument anyway.

Only pretentious wankers (~90+% of Apple users) put a workstation on top of the desk.

Edited 2013-12-20 04:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by v_bobok
by fmaxwell on Fri 20th Dec 2013 09:16 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by v_bobok"
fmaxwell Member since:
2005-11-13

A Mac pro is not going to be used for mission critical engineering design, mathematical simulations or as a server by any sane professional.

You are incorrect and talking about a subject that's clearly outside of your personal experience. I've had the privilege of working with brilliant scientists from NASA's JPL, all of whom made Macs their computer of choice, with all carrying MacBooks on the road and many working on Mac Pros in their offices.

I guess you're going to tell me that the Caedium Professional computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software, with has a $750/month license fee and runs on the Mac Pro, isn't used by professionals? And you think that AutoCAD, which recommends a Mac Pro 5,1 or later, is a hobbyist product?

GRAPHISOFT's Akos Pfemeter, Director of Global Marketing said “Obviously with the great dynamic scaling of ArchiCAD 17 we will very much benefit from the 12 powerful cores of the brand new Mac Pro.” He went on to say that ArchiCAD “will also benefit from the advanced OpenGL technologies that the powerful twin 4K graphics cards provide, allowing 3D models within ArchiCAD 17 to just fly.”

Workstations use ECC RAM and workstation grade cards primarily for piece of mind and legal indemnity - not performance.

You're arguing against a statement that I never made (that ECC RAM was used for performance). ECC RAM exacts a performance toll of about 2-3%. It's used anywhere that important work is being done, whether it's a 24/7 server or an engineering workstation that has to be rock-solid-stable.

As to your comment about workstation graphic cards, you need to read more. Tom's Hardware ran a Maya-based benchmark that had the W9000 at 91 frames per second while the consumer HD 7990 was running at 15 frames per second. Lightwave benchmarks showed similar results.

This is because the software manufacturer effectively offers legal indemnity for use in mission critical design situations such as aircraft and large-scale structural design. They are stating that their software is only guaranteed to work correctly when combined with certain hardware. The software checks that is using the "correct" hardware at startup to protect the software company against lawsuits.

That's a fabricated, incorrect assertion. These companies require workstation class cards for both performance and support reasons. They don't want to try to support some flaky, overclocked, third-party gamer graphics card with drivers that were developed around maximizing frame rates in video games.

Many CAD applications such as AutoCAD will run perfectly on consumer grade hardware. My brother is surveyor/civil engineer for a large government body. They replaced all their workstations over 20 years ago with whitebox PCs because none of their CAD work (surveying, unpaved access roads and minor earth works) is considered risky or mission critical.

So, around 1993, someone in a government office justified cost-cutting illogically (as if there had ever been a case where a bridge collapsed because the wrong graphics card was used). It's got nothing to do with liability; they took away his workstation because the work he was doing wasn't very demanding.

You can buy a $2 engine bolt form an auto parts store that is absolutely identical to an $800 aircraft bolt. The only difference is the aircraft bolt comes comes with paperwork certifying it for aviation use and offering legal indemnity against defects. In other words you pay $2 for the aircraft bolt and $798 "insurance" against defects.

I build satellites for a living and I'll set you straight.

Your $2 bolt at the hardware store has probably not been built in an ISO 9001 or AS 9100 facility. The manufacturing plant probably did not have a NADCAP accreditation for its testing facilities and there weren't tests made on bolts from each lot. It's not made of titanium, like the majority of the roughly half million structural bolts in a Boeing 787. It hasn't been been magnetically inspected (there are two different head markings for aerospace bolts that have been).

The bolts used in the aerospace industry have paperwork so that there is traceability. That way, if one does fail, we can know every place that we used bolts from that manufacturing lot. No bolt manufacturer is "insuring" anything with paperwork. I have thousands of aerospace bolts, nuts, and washers in my personal workshop for which the paperwork was lost and, as a result, the bolts had to be scrapped. You might want to take a look at those under magnification before you tell me that they are the same as what you buy at an auto parts store.

The ambient noise in a very quiet office is >40dB. The noise levels in a normal office frequently exceed 65dB.

Yes. And the ambient noise results from the sum of all of the noise, including computers.

Only pretentious wankers (~90+% of Apple users) put a workstation on top of the desk.

Don't be a dick. People who don't want their computer acting like a Hoover vacuum cleaner and sucking up every bit of dust that gets kicked around at floor level put their computers on top of their desks. I don't have room for my Mac Pro on top of my desk, so the Mac Pro gets much more dusty inside than do my desktop-mounted NAS or RAID enclosures. And I have to clean it at least annually with compressed air.

If you want to talk about pretentious, look at all of the Windows PCs with that have see-through windows, LED lights, UV activated glowing cables, and cases that look like something from bad sci-fi movies. Don't expect to see a lot of Alienware computers at the Museum of Modern Art. But you can see quite a few Apple products there.

Reply Parent Score: 4