Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 20th Jan 2014 23:59 UTC, submitted by Drumhellar
FreeBSD

FreeBSD 10 has been released. You can read the release notes, and, of course, go ahead and install it.

Thread beginning with comment 581273
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Doc Pain
Member since:
2006-10-08

Sadly, this is absolutely true.


And it says a lot about people.

I don't want to hurt anyone's religious feelings, but why can't self-proclaimed "adult people" simply ignore things that are so totally unimportant and don't matter? For the choice of an operating system I don't even consider the project or corporate logos a second. They don't matter. What has the software to offer, will it fit my requirements - those are the important questions.

Seeing a red sphere with two spikes any yelling: "I'm haunted! The devil will eat my soul! I don't want to be a sinner!" is exceptionally immature and has, in my opinion, nothing to do with (educated and true) belief.

What's next? Interpreting the four squares of the new MICROS~1 logo as a swastika and yelling: "This is nazi software! I don't want to hurt jews when I install it!" Is this example exxagerated, policitally incorrect and disgusting? I think so. But I wanted to use an actual extreme construction of something that does not apply to show how futile such discussions are.

VM has a green teddy bear. "But bears aren't green, and I fear them! Also, they are common tools of child molesters, and I don't want to be considered one."

OpenVMS had a shark. "I hate sharks. They kill innocent people all the time. And they taste ugly. Also they are too expensive."

Go has a hamster. "Rodents are annoying. They eat your cables and lose their shit everywhere. I don't want to use a programming language that has shit in it."

Apple has an apple. "That's the fruit of sin! I will be doomed if I install Mac OS X or use an iPhone!"

Android has a robot. "Those robots are not to be trusted. They will soon turn against me and kill my family. I don't want to have a smartphone that kills people."

Python has snakes. "I just hate snakes! They are the animals of the devil, the worshippers of evil! I refuse to use any software product that uses this language because it makes me a sinner!"

Oracle has the word "ORACLE". "That's blasphemy! Only god can see the future! Oracles are impossible!"

Linux has a Penguin. "Penguins live on the north pole. It's cold there, I don't want to catch a flu."

KDE has a dragon. "Dragons do not exist! The lord didn't create them!"

Gnome has a footprint. "Feet are dirty. I don't want to have dirty software on my computer." (user continues to surf porn)

Sun had a logo of four S. "That's definitely a swastika, and it's two times the SS! That's not acceptable. Nobody should use that hardware or software because it carries the nazi spirit!"

Windows has a cross (or 4 squares): "A swastika. Definitely. Don't use it!"

Windows also has icons. "I will not click on any icon. Icons are prohibited for true believers."

PC keyboards have an "Alt" key. "I don't want to use this keyboard because I hate the association to the alcohol in Altbeer. Also I won't press Escape because it helps criminals to flee from jail. I also won't use FreeBSD jails because jails oppress innocent people."

PCs have a mouse. "I'm not going to touch that dirty rodent! They carry diseases and will infect me! I will die if I use it! Make it go away!"

I could go on with this for hours. :-)

FreeBSD doesn't fit your technical requirements? Don't use it. Feel uncomfortable with the logo? Ignore it. Billions of "adults" around the world are able to ignore things, even their own important matters, so why shouldn't that be possible with such a minor thing that doesn't matter?

However, I cannot get anyone to consider FreeBSD seriously when I make a proposal and a corporate officer visits the website and sees demon ears sticking out of a circle.


As I said, this tells a lot about corporate officers. Simply don't include the logo in your proposal. Instead, include the "clues" your target audience is expecting. Most "decision makers" react positively to green traffic lights, cost figures ($0), certificates, friendly big fonts, pie charts and arrows pointing upwards (representing growth). Use those instead. :-)

I also can't evangelize for it without losing followers on twitter, etc., and all because of the logo.


This tells a lot about your followers. Do you really need those? Aren't you maybe attributing value to them that doesn't really exist? (I don't know what business you are in and how much you actually depend on Twitter followers, so don't take this an offense.)

I can't imagine that such an unimportant thing like a stupid little logo should have such an impact.

Despite the insanity of it, people still judge things by what they can see.


Make sure they don't see the logo. Problem solved. (I have lots of FreeBSD installations and typically none of them shows the logo anywhere, not while booting, not in X, not in the documentation.)

And the first impression still counts to someone new to a product.


Does this stupidity still apply in higher levels of IT management or at the "technical front"? Where's the professionalism, knowledge and experience that customers and employees (rightfully) expect from those people? Maybe their wages should be used to re-educate them, it seems to be neccessary when what you describe is true and can be found in too many places.

Not everyone reads programming websites day in and day out and grasps the true wonder of FreeBSD.


What is a "programming website"? ;-)

However unfair this may be, some people still visit the website the ordinary way and see the logo and dismiss FreeBSD from further consideration.


I'm not sure if I should say it that way, but let me try it: Those people, lost to FreeBSD, are people well lost. See examples above. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 9

allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

"Sadly, this is absolutely true.


And it says a lot about people.

I don't want to hurt anyone's religious feelings, but why can't self-proclaimed "adult people" simply ignore things that are so totally unimportant and don't matter?
"
You don't want to hurt religious people, yet your rants tried to impose your secular concepts about symbols and things to religious people?:


For the choice of an operating system I don't even consider the project or corporate logos a second. They don't matter. What has the software to offer, will it fit my requirements - those are the important questions.

Seeing a red sphere with two spikes any yelling: "I'm haunted! The devil will eat my soul! I don't want to be a sinner!" is exceptionally immature and has, in my opinion, nothing to do with (educated and true) belief.

Not true. I have known people(And these are employers) that in their business will remove or moved objects just to conform to their Feng Shui, it may not creep into technology, but when they saw a logo like that of FreeBSD's, I don't know.

What's next? Interpreting the four squares of the new MICROS~1 logo as a swastika and yelling: "This is nazi software! I don't want to hurt jews when I install it!" Is this example exxagerated, policitally incorrect and disgusting? I think so. But I wanted to use an actual extreme construction of something that does not apply to show how futile such discussions are.

Consider RELEASING a software to the public with a Satanic logo(Google provides you with a log of these symbols) and let us see.

Oracle has the word "ORACLE". "That's blasphemy! Only god can see the future! Oracles are impossible!"

Common, please use Oracle in the context of Oracle's business. Your comparisons fall short. FreeBSD uses an explicit image that can be interpreted as offensive to some religious folks. Do not go overboard and being an OA. When someone criticizes a logo, that means we have different opinions over things and thats normal, because the world does not revolve around your head and will not spin because your head says so.

Does this stupidity still apply in higher levels of IT management or at the "technical front"? Where's the professionalism, knowledge and experience that customers and employees (rightfully) expect from those people? Maybe their wages should be used to re-educate them, it seems to be neccessary when what you describe is true and can be found in too many places.

Some professionalism can be expressed in the used of Logo, AND I CAN'T see it with a demonic figure with fork in his hands. That reminds me of the battle between Gabriel and the Devil. Little google search reminds us the importance of logo, http://www.decodedscience.com/why-corporate-logos-matter-to-compani...
and the wikipedia tells us more. The fact is the world is not the U.S. and the U.S. is not the world. Some people think this way and can't get away to see that there are people that will going to disagree with them on certain subjects, and that because they live in a FIRST WORLD COUNTRY, they can dictate anyone on any subjects, be it religious, marriage, and moral values.

I'm not sure if I should say it that way, but let me try it: Those people, lost to FreeBSD, are people well lost. See examples above. :-)

There are better alternatives, if you can't market your product properly, even if how good you think it is, sorry. I have CentOS, enough already. Thanks.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

You don't want to hurt religious people, yet your rants tried to impose your secular concepts about symbols and things to religious people?:


Wrong. I don't impose anything, I'm just stating my very individual opinion and make suggestions. In how far those can be followed is a decision everyone has to make for himself. And as I also said, I do not understand why one would misunderstand a sphere with spike as something demonic and de-value the operating system project it's just a logo (of minor importance) for.

I have known people(And these are employers) that in their business will remove or moved objects just to conform to their Feng Shui,


I know about Feng Shui, there's nothing wrong with it.

it may not creep into technology, but when they saw a logo like that of FreeBSD's, I don't know.


I admit this is possible, but again: Judging a computer operating system by its logo simply doesn't sound right to me.

Consider RELEASING a software to the public with a Satanic logo(Google provides you with a log of these symbols) and let us see.


Well, "to the public" is a very broad target audience. All products typically have a specific target market. And for FreeBSD, those who use it are either fine with its logo or just ignore it.

It's mainly about interpretation. As long as nobody "feels offended" by a logo, the product properties or the corporation behind it don't really matter, even if it's a clerical-fascistoid megacorp that spies on people or does other bad things.

Common, please use Oracle in the context of Oracle's business. Your comparisons fall short.


No. I'm applying the same "logic" here, it's all about interpretation, assumption and attribution. And my examples are all wrong. Your statement also works in reverse: Use the FreeBSD logo in the context of the FreeBSD OS.

FreeBSD uses an explicit image that can be interpreted as offensive to some religious folks.


Yes, I don't deny that it can do this. But so can others, too.

Do not go overboard and being an OA.


What's an "OA"?

When someone criticizes a logo, that means we have different opinions over things and thats normal,


It's interesting that nobody had the phantasy that I've demonstrated in my "critic considerations" and carry it to the big corporations with their logos. It seems to be easier to discuss this topic on free and open software instead of "established business software", and FreeBSD has been a typical target over the years. OpenBSD (logo: a fish with spikes) and NetBSD (logo: a flag) hasn't been addressed in that way.

because the world does not revolve around your head and will not spin because your head says so.


It's interesting that the sun did revolve around the earth 500 years ago, and it was an accepted truth. :-)

Some professionalism can be expressed in the used of Logo, AND I CAN'T see it with a demonic figure with fork in his hands.


Isn't it possible to see the intended analogy of a daemon (a system serivce) with a friendly little guy in sneakers and with a pitchfork? Why is there anything demonic (usually in a christian interpretation) in it? Is it in a bull too? It has horns.

That reminds me of the battle between Gabriel and the Devil. Little google search reminds us the importance of logo, http://www.decodedscience.com/why-corporate-logos-matter-to-compani...
and the wikipedia tells us more.


Please read up on the "mark of the beast", its importance in performing trade, and see the analogy in smartphones and upcoming implants. It's possible and valid to draw that implication.

The fact is the world is not the U.S. and the U.S. is not the world. Some people think this way and can't get away to see that there are people that will going to disagree with them on certain subjects, and that because they live in a FIRST WORLD COUNTRY, they can dictate anyone on any subjects, be it religious, marriage, and moral values.


I fully agree.

There are better alternatives, if you can't market your product properly, even if how good you think it is, sorry. I have CentOS, enough already. Thanks.


Marketing has nothing to do with product quality. Instead, aggressive marketing can compensate poor product quality. If you have a bad product and throw money at marketing, people will still buy it even though they could have better alternatives for less money. This is what reality keeps teaching us for many years now.

On the other hand, if you have a good product, people will use it despite it has a strange logo or doesn't perform big marketing acts. FreeBSD for example has many users who value it, even though it's "for free".

And please consider something else:

The BSDL (FreeBSD license) allows using its source code without contribution or notification, changing it, turning it into closed source, and selling it, even develop own products. Just think how many routers,
managed switches, firewalls and NAS are out there, running FreeBSD, without anyone knowing it? And how comfortable are you with the fact that you probably have no way of finding it out?

Reply Parent Score: 3

saso Member since:
2007-04-18

You express a sentiment that is best met with hard mockery: http://youtu.be/6WPvSo8AYdM?t=16s

Reply Parent Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Some professionalism can be expressed in the used of Logo, AND I CAN'T see it with a demonic figure with fork in his hands.


Professionalism would be to not judge the OS by it's logo/mascot but by it's technical merits and how suitable it is for your use case.

they can dictate anyone on any subjects, be it religious, marriage, and moral values.


Oh, you mean just like how you're trying to dictate to freebsd what logo they can use?

I have CentOS, enough already.


My condolences.

Edited 2014-01-22 20:25 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

itanic Member since:
2008-08-03

I for one have no problem offending religious people. Faith is by definition a form of intellectual dishonesty, and to encourage it in any way is to embrace ignorance. Anyone with such fundamentally flawed logic is unlikely to contribute anything great to computing anyway, so it's no loss if something as trivial as a logo drives them away from a project.

Reply Parent Score: 2

tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

> What's next? Interpreting the four squares of the new MICROS~1 logo as a swastika and yelling: "This is nazi software! I don't want to hurt jews when I install it!"

Well, they did adopt that logo when their fortunes were tied to IBM, and IBM sold primitive computers to Hitler, so that's not entirely wrong...

Reply Parent Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Thumbs up. Best post in this thread.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Linux has a Penguin. "Penguins live on the north pole. It's cold there, I don't want to catch a flu."


Pepsi hurts my nostrils.

Also, you owe me a new keyboard.

Edited 2014-01-22 20:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Linux has a Penguin. "Penguins live on the north pole. It's cold there, I don't want to catch a flu."

Actually, there are no penguins on the northern hemisphere... ;) (well, except in zoos of course)

Reply Parent Score: 2