Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 31st Mar 2014 23:45 UTC
Mozilla & Gecko clones

For the Internet community, the principles of free speech and equal rights are foundational. But in recent days, those issues are clashing at Mozilla, the nonprofit foundation and tech company behind the Firefox browser.

At issue is Brendan Eich, a co-founder of Mozilla, inventor of the much used Javascript programming language and the newly appointed CEO of the company. Eich made a $1,000 donation to the campaign for California's Proposition 8, which defined marriage as only between a man and a woman. The donation had come to light in 2012, but fizzled.

Opposing same-sex marriage is no different than opposing interracial marriage. As a Dutchman, it baffles me that an organisation like Mozilla appointed a man with such medieval ideas.

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RE: OSNews = On Sex News
by ricegf on Tue 1st Apr 2014 04:46 UTC in reply to "OSNews = On Sex News"
ricegf
Member since:
2007-04-25

Why do we have such a medieval thing as marriage? Wasn't it just a way to own women?


No. Please try to remember that you asked the question, and I'm just giving an honest answer from my personal perspective as a practicing Christian.

Many who self-identify as Christian follow Ephesians 5:25-33, which establishes marriage as an analogy of the relationship between Christ and his church, and specifically his willingness (we believe) to die to protect and save his people. It's nearly the opposite of "ownership" - it's sacrificial love.

That's why changing the (government's) definition of marriage tends to upset so many Christians, and why so many people insist that marriage is more than "just a legal contract" - marriage has been wrapped up in theology for thousands of years.

I suspect that if the exact same laws were labeled "civil unions", you'd see a lot less heartburn - though I understand the desire of gay people to receive the same acknowledgement before the law, and the refusal of so many to accept that compromise as even slightly acceptable.

Of course, given the general disregard of marriage in (at least) American society in the age of quick, no-fault divorce, I'm suspicious we'd be better off if the government didn't acknowledge "marriage" at all - just offer civil unions as a shorthand for a set of legalese. My stubborn libertarian streak leaks out sometimes, I guess. But I'm a backslid libertarian, so I could be wrong. *shrugs*

People must be free to be together or be separate. What do we have marriage for?


As someone who has been happily married for 27 years, I would say that I find great satisfaction in the life we have built together. The permanence of our marriage, as we do not accept divorce as a moral option, is a large part of the satisfaction. We're partners for life, no plan B, we burned the ships, and all that jazz.

If you told my wife that I own her, by the way, she'd nearly die laughing. You'd probably make her day.

I don't give a flip who you choose to marry or why, or which marriages the government chooses to accept for tax and inheritance purposes or not, but I do have grave concerns over the efforts of proponents of government recognition of gay marriage to destroy the lives of those who disagree with them. "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Or so I heard a man say once while growing up in Mississippi in the 1960s.

So. That's one man's opinion. Feel free to try to have me fired and blacklisted now...

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: OSNews = On Sex News
by jal_ on Tue 1st Apr 2014 09:31 in reply to "RE: OSNews = On Sex News"
jal_ Member since:
2006-11-02

Many who self-identify as Christian follow Ephesians 5:25-33, which establishes marriage as an analogy of the relationship between Christ and his church, and specifically his willingness (we believe) to die to protect and save his people. It's nearly the opposite of "ownership" - it's sacrificial love.


1) Why could sacrificial love not apply to people of the same gender? Christ is male, but why is the church female, except to make the analogy work by presupposing marriage as man + woman?
2) Why not oppose atheist marriage for the same reason?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: OSNews = On Sex News
by ricegf on Tue 1st Apr 2014 11:21 in reply to "RE[2]: OSNews = On Sex News"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

1) Why could sacrificial love not apply to people of the same gender? Christ is male, but why is the church female, except to make the analogy work by presupposing marriage as man + woman?


Again, I'm speaking theologically from one practicing Christian's perspective, because you ask.

In Matthew 19, Jesus was asked if divorce (as fashionable then as now) was morally permissible for people of faith. In answering, he specifically pointed back to the very beginning - Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 - where (we believe) God created marriage as a permanent bond between one man and one woman.

I suppose it's valid to claim that Jesus was presupposing the definition of marriage as you state, but only because (we believe) he defined it that way from the start.

2) Why not oppose atheist marriage for the same reason?


Theologically, as far as I know, there's no basis to oppose marriage by non-Christians, as biblical morality applies to Christians rather by definition.

Most of the conflict (from my view) hasn't come from trying to prevent gay marriage itself - I believe a young woman married a dolphin in Florida a few years back, and really, who cares? It's her life - as much as trying to avoid having the government legally recognize such marriages. That was what DOMA actually addressed - it never "outlawed gay marriage", as the press endlessly parroted, but rather prohibited the federal government from recognizing or forcing states to recognize those marriages - unconstitutionally, as it turns out. :-)

It's that whole "you're trying to force your morality on us!" thing that Christians and non-Christians periodically hurl at each other, usually because... well, because we both periodically do exactly that. *sigh*

From the Christian side of things, in the same way that atheists fought all the way to the supreme court to force the Boy Scouts of America organization to accept gay leaders, and the supreme court is at this moment deciding whether a privately owned business can be forced by the government to pay for medical procedures that violate their personal and religious convictions, there is concern that churches and private businesses will similarly be forced to host, perform, and recognize gay marriages even if such actions violate their personal and religious beliefs.

You know, kind of like gay marriage advocates are trying to destroy a man who dares to act in his private life in accordance with his personal beliefs.

Again, I don't particularly care who marries who. For example, while on our honeymoon in Paris, my wife and I toured with a gay couple who happened to be part of our traveling group (this was in the 1980s), and we had a lovely time. I've also had several gay friends through the years, and never had any argument with them. How delightful it would be if we could simply be left to believe as we choose, and act on those beliefs according to the dictates of our conscience, without people who disagree attempting to coerce our actions.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: OSNews = On Sex News
by JAlexoid on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 17:00 in reply to "RE: OSNews = On Sex News"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

marriage has been wrapped up in theology for thousands of years

Only about 500 for Christianity, with exceptions of Royal "marriages" that are effectively a coronation of the spouse.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: OSNews = On Sex News
by ricegf on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 20:42 in reply to "RE[2]: OSNews = On Sex News"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

No, even a cursory reading of the New Testament shows a strong theological emphasis on marriage as representing God's relationship to his church (I point to a few examples above, or try Revelation if you're for some deep reading ;-), and we have complete copies in Greek from the 4th century. But of course Christianity is also not the only religion.

Reply Parent Score: 1