Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 10th May 2014 20:12 UTC, submitted by Premislaus
BeOS & Derivatives

My area of interest is broadly defined kernel development. In the spring of 2013 I implemented ASLR and DEP which caused minor confusion due to "activation" of bugs that have been hidden but I think that overall it worked out well for Haiku. Later I tinkered a bit with RTM (Restricted Transactional Memory), new extension introduced in Haswells but the code will need a lot of work before it will become usable. From October to mid-January, I was employed by Haiku, Inc. to work on the scheduler and adaptating Haiku for work on systems with more than one logical processor. Among other things, I got rid of the 8 processors limit, which was quite firmly rooted in the ABI inherited from BeOS.

Great interview with a low-level Haiku developer.

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RE: Ouch
by bornagainenguin on Sun 11th May 2014 20:18 UTC in reply to "Ouch"
bornagainenguin
Member since:
2005-08-07

tacks posted....

They should have used Linux (or one of the BSD's if the license is a problem) as the kernel with a BeOS emulation layer. Think about all the driver they'd get for free, along with a rock solid foundation. The rationale they give for going ahead with their own kernel is just weird. There is no reason why the various API kits wouldn't run on top of Linux.


I'm guessing you've never heard of BlueEyedOS? Don't feel too bad, not many others have either considering their last update was in 2003. See: http://www.blueeyedos.com/

There's also ZevenOS, which intends to recreate the look and feel but without the APIS. See: http://www.zevenos.de/

Maybe it's just not as easy as you seem to think to build a new operating system?

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Ouch
by tacks on Sun 11th May 2014 20:22 in reply to "RE: Ouch"
tacks Member since:
2014-05-03

tacks posted....
"They should have used Linux (or one of the BSD's if the license is a problem) as the kernel with a BeOS emulation layer. Think about all the driver they'd get for free, along with a rock solid foundation. The rationale they give for going ahead with their own kernel is just weird. There is no reason why the various API kits wouldn't run on top of Linux.


I'm guessing you've never heard of BlueEyedOS? Don't feel too bad, not many others have either considering their last update was in 2003. See: http://www.blueeyedos.com/

There's also ZevenOS, which intends to recreate the look and feel but without the APIS. See: http://www.zevenos.de/

Maybe it's just not as easy as you seem to think to build a new operating system?

--bornagainpenguin
"

You're mocking the wrong guy since I have actually build an hobbyist operating system and I know how much work it is. That's why I advocate using a well-known kernel.

The fact that BlueEyedOS failed doesn't say anything about the merit of building on top of Linux. It's just show how blue eyed (stupid) they were not to make it work.

The Haiku guys would have succeeded, and quickly (the SkyOS guy managed to refactor his UI to run on top of Linux with little effort, having a Haiku-like design to start off with.)

Edited 2014-05-11 20:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Ouch
by Vanders on Sun 11th May 2014 22:20 in reply to "RE[2]: Ouch"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

the SkyOS guy managed to refactor his UI to run on top of Linux with little effort, having a Haiku-like design to start off with.

Ah yes, SkyOS. Now there's a pinnacle of OS design. Say who'd porting SkyOS to Linux work out for Robert? Ah, it died soon after you say? Funny.

I wrote a compatibility layer that implemented Syllable ABI's on top of Linux, too. Even got the UI to run (on top of SDL). That didn't make it a good idea.

Every time I see someone say "Why not use Linux" I read "I lack any imagination and have a weird fanboy worship of Linus Torvalds, so obviously Linux is perfect for every need ever invented and I'll hear no criticism of it and you're an idiot if you think otherwise" and then I ignore you and move on.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: Ouch
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 12th May 2014 12:58 in reply to "RE[2]: Ouch"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

You can't tell volunteers what to do, they'll do what interests them. And apparently, there are more people that are interested working from a BeOs Compatible kernel, than a linux one. The community has spoken, regardless of what common sense would dictate.

In any case, given the amount of growth and change in the Linux desktop stack over the last ten years, I'm not sure it would have been that much easier. The Xorg changes, the toolkits and now the coming wayland.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Ouch
by demetrioussharpe on Mon 12th May 2014 14:01 in reply to "RE[2]: Ouch"
demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

You're mocking the wrong guy since I have actually build an hobbyist operating system and I know how much work it is. That's why I advocate using a well-known kernel.


In the long run, the kernel isn't even the majority of the work. Still, there's a reason that Be, Inc. didn't use a Unix or Plan9 or L4 or any other kernel. They evaluated plenty of kernels & had the money to by commercial kernels -none were suitable. So, what makes you think that one would be suitable?

The fact that BlueEyedOS failed doesn't say anything about the merit of building on top of Linux. It's just show how blue eyed (stupid) they were not to make it work.


Ok, then why don't YOU make it work?

The Haiku guys would have succeeded, and quickly (the SkyOS guy managed to refactor his UI to run on top of Linux with little effort, having a Haiku-like design to start off with.)


Making your OS run on top of a different kernel isn't the same as making your OS run well on a different kernel. Switching to the Linux kernel didn't save SkyOS. I seem to recall that he evaluated Linux & BSD. So, look where that got SkyOS...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Ouch
by renox on Mon 12th May 2014 11:48 in reply to "RE: Ouch"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

tacks posted....
"They should have used Linux (or one of the BSD's if the license is a problem) as the kernel with a BeOS emulation layer. Think about all the driver they'd get for free, along with a rock solid foundation. The rationale they give for going ahead with their own kernel is just weird. There is no reason why the various API kits wouldn't run on top of Linux.


I'm guessing you've never heard of BlueEyedOS?
"

BlueEyedOS was a project bound to fail from the start: they were quite fuzzy in their explanation of the license that they were going to use..

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Ouch
by bornagainenguin on Mon 12th May 2014 22:47 in reply to "RE[2]: Ouch"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

renox commented...

BlueEyedOS was a project bound to fail from the start: they were quite fuzzy in their explanation of the license that they were going to use..


As I seem to recall that didn't seem to bother the yellowTab\magnussoft Zeta crowd all that much for quite a long period of time. It was amazing how far those guys got with their shenanigans, even to the point of selling Zeta on German RTL TV shopping channel! Not bad for an operating system whose licensing was so incredibly fuzzy it was like they didn't actually have a right to distribute or sell it at all...

Heh.

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Parent Score: 2