Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd May 2014 18:21 UTC, submitted by Shane
General Development

I was at the OpenStack Summit this week. The overwhelming majority of OpenStack deployments are Linux-based, yet the most popular laptop vendor (by a long way) at the conference was Apple. People are writing code with the intention of deploying it on Linux, but they're doing so under an entirely different OS.

But what's really interesting is the tools they're using to do so. When I looked over people's shoulders, I saw terminals and a web browser. They're not using Macs because their development tools require them, they're using Macs because of what else they get - an aesthetically pleasing OS, iTunes and what's easily the best trackpad hardware/driver combination on the market. These are people who work on the same laptop that they use at home. They'll use it when they're commuting, either for playing videos or for getting a head start so they can leave early. They use an Apple because they don't want to use different hardware for work and pleasure.

Apple's laptops are still the best PCs money can buy at the moment (despite their horribly outdated displays). It's no wonder Linux developers, too, favour them.

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The OSX CLI is good?
by Darkmage on Fri 23rd May 2014 01:08 UTC
Darkmage
Member since:
2006-10-20

When did that happen? (I run a MacBook pro 2011 as my primary laptop machine.) Frankly, I can't agree with people talking about the OSX command line being so great. It has the worst dependancy hell I've ever seen compared to Debian, Ubuntu or even Gentoo Linux. Packages always broken, out of date, hard to upgrade. Conflicts between BSD and GNU libraries. Really basic stuff that should have been fixed years ago. Try installing glib, or gtk onto a MacBook. It's possible, but it's actually a pain to do. Fink, macports, etc, all tried, packages horribly out of date, or just missing.

Now Linux on the other hand, has a working CLI, but a horrifically broken UI. It's a shame that GNUstep never took off because then we'd have a system that's basically OSX on the Linux CLI (try installing the NSMacintoshMenu style and an Apple theme. It doesn't just look like OSX, it works like OSX too.). It's pretty funny that ElementaryOS which is basically Linux made to look like Mac has taken off so strongly, yet GNUstep which actually uses the Apple APIs on Linux has been left to rot.

Edited 2014-05-23 01:26 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: The OSX CLI is good?
by galvanash on Fri 23rd May 2014 04:02 in reply to "The OSX CLI is good?"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

When did that happen? (I run a MacBook pro 2011 as my primary laptop machine.) Frankly, I can't agree with people talking about the OSX command line being so great. It has the worst dependancy hell I've ever seen compared to Debian, Ubuntu or even Gentoo Linux. Packages always broken, out of date, hard to upgrade. Conflicts between BSD and GNU libraries. Really basic stuff that should have been fixed years ago. Try installing glib, or gtk onto a MacBook. It's possible, but it's actually a pain to do. Fink, macports, etc, all tried, packages horribly out of date, or just missing.


I would say it depends on what your doing.

If you are not a developer, or your interest lies in running X-based software, while OSX can work it doesn't work terribly well...

If you are and C/C++ developer who doesn't want to use xcode, and you are primarily building for other platforms, OSX will probably suck hard.

On the other hand if you are doing development primarily in interpreted languages (Ruby, Python, Node.js, Java, etc.), OSX is actually pretty solid and very well supported (orders of magnitude better than Windows)

As far as the quality of the CLI itself, its just regular old bash. There is some weirdness due to OSX differences from other Unix, but for the most part I find it behaves pretty much identically to Linux. I run Total Terminal so I have the CLI on a hotkey and it window-shades down form the menubar - I find it extremely comfortable to use this way (especially in OSX because of the way window management works).

ps. Most everyone I know gave up on fink and macports long ago. Check out homebrew - for the most part it just works.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: The OSX CLI is good?
by leos on Fri 23rd May 2014 04:52 in reply to "The OSX CLI is good?"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Try installing glib, or gtk onto a MacBook.


It's a miserable experience because no one in their right mind would do that. Hence the packages aren't updated. What's the use-case here?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: The OSX CLI is good?
by Darkmage on Fri 23rd May 2014 05:16 in reply to "RE: The OSX CLI is good?"
Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

The use case is porting UNIX software, aka C based Linux GTK applications to Mac OSX. To initially compile against GTK, and slowly remove the dependancies on GTK/GL to port to an Aqua/Cocoa/AppleGL gui.

On this point I'll also say, Windows sucks hard, but at least Cygwin is easily installable. Not that I'd ever use it for more than a toy. But it does install the packages. As horribly outdated as they are.

(I did try homebrew but it was complaining pretty hard about libraries possibly conflicting with old fink/macports cruft)

This is coming from someone who is trying to develop cross platform desktop applications. Not coding scripted/interpreted languages. I'm working with OpenGL, and C, potentially objective-C (IF I can make it play nice on Linux/OSX) I'm not particularly fussed with Windows support, if people want it, they can code it themselves.

From my perspective, the Apple hardware is great, the kernel is a masterpiece of engineering. The GUI/Userspace is brilliant. But the commandline sucks hard for a UNIX system, and I've had better on FreeBSD, Solaris and Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: The OSX CLI is good?
by Soulbender on Fri 23rd May 2014 08:53 in reply to "The OSX CLI is good?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

It's pretty funny that ElementaryOS which is basically Linux made to look like Mac has taken off so strongly


On what planet has ElementaryOS taken off strongly? Certainly not on this planet Earth.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: The OSX CLI is good?
by Morgan on Fri 23rd May 2014 13:46 in reply to "RE: The OSX CLI is good?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

It's in the top ten on distrowatch.com, above Arch Linux. That's pretty damn impressive to me.

http://distrowatch.com/

Reply Parent Score: 3