Linked by jessesmith on Wed 5th Nov 2014 10:39 UTC
Linux Over the past year I've been reading a lot of opinions on the new init technology, systemd. Some people think systemd is wonderful, the bee's knees. Others claim that systemd is broken by design. Some see systemd as a unifying force, a way to unite the majority of the Linux distributions. Others see systemd as a growing blob that is slowly becoming an overly large portion of the operating system. One thing that has surprised me a little is just how much people care about systemd, whether their opinion of the technology is good or bad. People in favour faithfully (and sometimes falsely) make wonderful claims about what systemd is and what it can supposedly do. Opponents claim systemd will divide the Linux community and drive many technical users to other operating systems. There is a lot of hype and surprisingly few people presenting facts.
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RE[4]: A cople of comments.
by gilboa on Thu 6th Nov 2014 16:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: A cople of comments."
gilboa
Member since:
2005-07-06

It's relevant in the sense that the original approach taken when developing FOSS software is essentially gone. Since Debian is a volunteer based effort, they're sensible to this change. As you point out that holds true for the kernel and various other technologies (browsers, GUI toolkits, etc...).


Leave Debian and other volunteer based distributions one of two options: Go with the flow, or face stagnation.

Why? I never said it was the wrong decision, it's most likely the right one as I had mentioned below. Systemd *has* its merits (a phrase you seem to have missed from my post) but it's not a volunteer based effort and it's becoming the default in Debian because no other projects has the economical resources to take on a commercial entity such as RedHat. That doesn't compare to something like the traditional discussion about which software is better in the FOSS community. Simply put, there's no alternative and that's why it's being chosen.


I agree that it doesn't.
One side is willing to put a lot of resources on developing a new modern base system infrastructure while the other side, *unlike* VI/emacs, KDE/GNOME or BSD/Linux that actually set out to drive their own unique view of such a solution, are currently limited to to very vocal, border-line abusive forum activists that define themselves by what they hate, as opposed to what they want to achieve.

Place the blame of RedHat for actually trying to be constructive is plain wrong.

Huh? I never mentioned oppressed non-systemd distributions. Personally I'm using Fedora which has been using systemd for a while. Did my mention of systemd being a paid-for commercial effort just like MacOS X or Windows somehow hurt your feelings for it? You seem to be overreacting.


My comment was not directed at you personally, and you know it.
You personal attach was childish and uncalled for.

- Gilboa

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: A cople of comments.
by crystall on Fri 7th Nov 2014 13:46 in reply to "RE[4]: A cople of comments."
crystall Member since:
2007-02-06

Place the blame of RedHat for actually trying to be constructive is plain wrong.

RedHat is not being constructive for the sake of it, it's being productive for its own sake. They've got a product to sell and they need to improve it for their paying users. Users of other distributions (including RedHat-based free ones) are an afterthought. That's not something "bad"; it's how a commercial company is supposed to act if it's to make any profits and stay in business.

My comment was not directed at you personally, and you know it.

Let me quote you again:

Again, you fail to explain what stops the million of oppressed anti-systemd developers and users from forking the latest non-systemd distribution and going on, on their separate way?

That comment was an attack, it was straightly directed at me (unless "you" means something else) and asked me to explain something I had not even said. That's what I call childish.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: A cople of comments.
by gilboa on Sun 9th Nov 2014 08:47 in reply to "RE[5]: A cople of comments."
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

RedHat is not being constructive for the sake of it, it's being productive for its own sake. They've got a product to sell and they need to improve it for their paying users. Users of other distributions (including RedHat-based free ones) are an afterthought. That's not something "bad"; it's how a commercial company is supposed to act if it's to make any profits and stay in business.


So?
The OSS was founded by people and companies that had "an itch to scratch".
At least theoretically, the anti-systemd group has a massive itch to scratch, but thus far, they rather trade personal insults (hint) as opposed to actually doing anything constructive about it.

"Again, you fail to explain what stops the million of oppressed anti-systemd developers and users from forking the latest non-systemd distribution and going on, on their separate way?


That comment was an attack, it was straightly directed at me (unless "you" means something else) and asked me to explain something I had not even said. That's what I call childish.
"

I never claimed or hinted that you are a part of said "oppressed anti-systemd developers and users", its for *you* to decide if you belong to said group, and the mere fact that you turned an honest question (one which you continuously refuse to answer) into a *perceived* personal insult and a reason to start trading personal insults, puts you square in the middle of this said group.

Edited 2014-11-09 08:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2