Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Nov 2005 18:50 UTC
Internet & Networking If a certain US senator and a certain EU commissioner are to be believed, the internet is five days away from total collapse as governments are finally forced into a corner and told to agree on a framework for future Internet governance. Both are wrong, but there is a very real risk that an enormous political argument resulting in lifelong ill-will centred around the internet could developed unchecked at the WSIS Summit. The fact that it hasn’t already is effectively down to one man: Mr Khan. He was chosen as chair of Sub-Committee A during the WSIS process, and his remit includes all the most difficult and contentious elements - not just internet governance but also how the world will deal with issues such as spam and cybercrime.
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This is tiring....
by OMRebel on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:40 UTC
OMRebel
Member since:
2005-11-14

The UN and EU really do need to grow up. Now, for those of you who live in the EU, this isn't an attack on you, but for those that are whinning about this. The fact is other nations have started to depend on an American product very heavily for their economy. Now, those nations that have relied so heavily on it want to have control of something that simply isn't theirs. They want the ability to TAX the Internet on simple things that are currently free, such as email. This whole thing isn't about moving the US out of countrol of the Internet, as so many want to believe. This is about money, plain and simple.

There is nothing wrong with the Internet. It is free to the world. The US isn't charging other nations or restricting nations from access to it. The US isn't bullying other nations around. This is corrupted politicians seeing dollar signs (well, Euro signs) in their eyes, and wanting to profit off of something that doesn't belong to them.

This entire issue is completely assanine, and despite of everyone thinking the issue is about anti-US sentiment, it's not. It's about the UN and EU making money. And, those who are supporting such a move and unknowingly supporting the concept of having their government impose taxes on them.

Edited 2005-11-14 20:44

Reply Score: 4

RE: This is tiring....
by jaboua on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:45 in reply to "This is tiring...."
jaboua Member since:
2005-09-08

Who said that EU wanted to tax the internet?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: This is tiring....
by OMRebel on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:54 in reply to "RE: This is tiring...."
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

They (the EU) are teaming up with the UN on this issue are they not?


http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/un_monitor/in_our_opinion/gl...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is tiring....
by endy on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:52 in reply to "This is tiring...."
endy Member since:
2005-09-02

If a country wants control of their own portion of the internet and wants to tax it then who are we, as outsiders, to tell them what to do?

It's up each country and their respective citizens to decide what gets taxed or not.

And yes, I think it's time the internet got shared but no, I don't think anyone is going about it the right way.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: This is tiring....
by Smartpatrol on Mon 14th Nov 2005 21:01 in reply to "RE: This is tiring...."
Smartpatrol Member since:
2005-07-06

Your right the internet should be censored 100% by those nations and they should be allowed to levey VAT on all internet related dealings. <rolls eyes>

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: This is tiring....
by OMRebel on Mon 14th Nov 2005 21:04 in reply to "RE: This is tiring...."
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

But, it is shared. The problem is other countries see a money maker off of it and want to be able to govern it in order to make that money. That's the primary cause of the UN trying to wrestle away control from the US. It isn't that the Internet has been misused by the US. The US and ICANN have done a great job. That leaves only one cause for the UN and EU to even bring this up - MONEY.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is tiring....
by DittoBox on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:53 in reply to "This is tiring...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

Though I believe you're correct, do you have any sources that point towards the implementation of taxes on the internet from the EU?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: This is tiring....
by OMRebel on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:58 in reply to "RE: This is tiring...."
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

I'll try to find some links, but I think I remember a large number of nations from the EU were supporters of the International Tax Organization in the UN.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is tiring....
by Smartpatrol on Mon 14th Nov 2005 20:59 in reply to "This is tiring...."
Smartpatrol Member since:
2005-07-06

Its about control only with this control comes the ability to TAX. Its fine the way it is managed now.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is tiring....
by smitty on Mon 14th Nov 2005 21:54 in reply to "This is tiring...."
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

I have to agree that it is all about money, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean taxes. The internet has become so important to the world economy it's almost like oil. Without it, economies would grind to a halt. And because it is so important to the economy, governments naturally want to control it. Without that control, they could reasonably assume the US will use it as a bargaining chip in future negotiations (like OPEC countries use oil to get what they want).

The EU and other countries wanting control isn't childish - it's politics. And the US refusing to give up control is the exact same politics, just from the other side.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: This is tiring....
by protagonist on Tue 15th Nov 2005 17:28 in reply to "RE: This is tiring...."
protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

You make a good point, but can you imagine the uproar that would be caused by the EU and UN insisting that since oil is used globally all Oil should be put under the some form of international control? :-)

Admittedly, many nations have contributed to the success of the internet, but the practical application of it did originate in the US and was pretty much financially backed in the US. I don't think most people would object to some kind of internationalization of it. The problem is that what has been suggested is totally unacceptable to us. Since most people here feel that the UN is totally incapable of managing it properly it makes the whole idea a big joke.

ICANN has been doing a very good job and replacing it with something perceived to be much worse will never be acceptable. I am not sure an acceptable resolution can be found unless there is some form of guarantee that the internet will always be free to all as it is now.

Say what you want, but I feel that most of the detractors of ICANN are not really protesting ICANN itself as they are displaying an anti US bias. The perception is that the US government controls the internet and that is just plain wrong. If we could get past the anti US sentiment and seriously discuss the issue a solution might be achieved. Until then it is just a lot of rhetoric by politicians the world over who abhor the idea of something they are not in control of.

Reply Parent Score: 1

I agree , get your pills quick
by Moulinneuf on Tue 15th Nov 2005 01:44 in reply to "This is tiring...."
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"The fact is other nations have started to depend on an American product very heavily for their economy. "

Etats-Unians like to claim things that are not exclusively there own all the time ( like naming themself and everything they do Americans. ) The internet is a world wide created product , only someone really delusionnal would think and say otherwise , please show your paper of ownership and make veil threats , it only work on country who the UN has beaten to the ground 10 years ago.

"Now, those nations that have relied so heavily on it want to have control of something that simply isn't theirs. "

Like I said , please show your paper of ownership of the Internet. This is just as ridiculous as The Etats-Unians claiming ownership of all phones lines globbaly and is just as ridiculous.

"This whole thing isn't about moving the US out of countrol of the Internet"

The US as zero control over the internet. Never did and never will have any.

"There is nothing wrong with the Internet. It is free to the world."

Because no one entity own it ... and The ISP are all playing nice for now. The problem is the illegal things ( child pornography in the US , server is in russia , or illgal gamblings player is in US the server are in Canada , money is going to Caiman island ) happening on it , the only global entity that can go and do anything legally in any country regarding communciation is ONLY the UN.

"The US isn't charging other nations or restricting nations from access to it."

I would really like and see them try. They cant even control the immoral and illegal things happening inside there own border inside the US.

"The US isn't bullying other nations around."

Start looking at internationnal news sometime ...

"This is corrupted politicians seeing dollar signs"

In the US playing the game of the vocal mindless extremist nationalist always make you money.

"and despite of everyone thinking the issue is about anti-US sentiment, it's not. It's about the UN and EU making money"

Everyone is thinking its a none issue as no one care what the US say and does regardint the Internet ...

"those who are supporting such a move and unknowingly supporting the concept of having their government impose taxes on them."

Internet is a service , any country can decide to specificaly tax it as it wish , like the UN or the US will be able to stop someone else country from taxing what they whant to tax inside there own border ...

What the UN is trying to fix is the Illegal child pornography and other illegal thing , because the ISP have no legal power to really stop it , must be why the US and you are trying to stop the UN you dont care about anyone just that it make money.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I agree , get your pills quick
by Soulbender on Tue 15th Nov 2005 05:11 in reply to "This is tiring...."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The US really need to grow up.

"The fact is other nations have started to depend on an American product very heavily for their economy."
Kind of like how the US depend on product/inventions from other countries for their economy.

"This whole thing isn't about moving the US out of countrol of the Internet"
From a pure technical point the US does not have any control over the internet. The rest of the world could, if they wanted and agreed etc etc, just cut the US out of the loop and route all traffic around it.

"This is corrupted politicians seeing dollar signs"
Yes, it most certainly is and from both the US, EU and UN. And not only politicians. You'd know that if you followed other developments like certain US ISP's wanting to charge content providers (hey, all content lives in the US, right.?) like yahoo and google for servicing the ISP's own customers.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is tiring....
by Kroc on Tue 15th Nov 2005 07:11 in reply to "This is tiring...."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

"an American product"

America didn't lay the phone lines world wide, they didn't provide the servers and ISPs world wide and they didn't contribute all the content on the Internet either.

You control the root machines, you hold the keys to the network; you only built a small part of it though.

There is a world outside of America and Europe discovered you, not the other way around.

Reply Parent Score: 1

christianhgross Member since:
2005-11-15

Wanna know how all this started?

http://news.zdnet.com/2110-9588_22-5868953.html

The president decided to control the Internet because a friggen 6,000 people wrote in to voice their opinion against the .xxx domains which were approved by the ICANN.

So here is my question, if you say the Internet is free, why is the Bush administration meddling like a corrupted politician that sees Euro signs?

Had the Bush administration left its grubby paws of this issue we would not be in the mess we are now! BTW I don't want ANY government meddling in the Internet. The Internet has done well all on its own!

Reply Parent Score: 1