Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Aug 2016 22:21 UTC
In the News

Starting later this month, Uber will allow customers in downtown Pittsburgh to summon self-driving cars from their phones, crossing an important milestone that no automotive or technology company has yet achieved. Google, widely regarded as the leader in the field, has been testing its fleet for several years, and Tesla Motors offers Autopilot, essentially a souped-up cruise control that drives the car on the highway. Earlier this week, Ford announced plans for an autonomous ride-sharing service. But none of these companies has yet brought a self-driving car-sharing service to market.

Uber's Pittsburgh fleet, which will be supervised by humans in the driver's seat for the time being, consists of specially modified Volvo XC90 sport-utility vehicles outfitted with dozens of sensors that use cameras, lasers, radar, and GPS receivers. Volvo Cars has so far delivered a handful of vehicles out of a total of 100 due by the end of the year. The two companies signed a pact earlier this year to spend $300 million to develop a fully autonomous car that will be ready for the road by 2021.

The robotisation of transportation - personal, professional, commercial, and industrial - will be one of the most far-reaching and uprooting developments in recent human history. Transportation is a relatively large part of the workforce, and over the coming decades, many of those jobs will disappear - putting a huge strain on the economy and society.

On top of that, car ownership will start to slow down, and since automated cars will make more efficient use of available road surface, we'll eventually get to the point where we need to rethink our entire infrastructure and the way we design our living space - only 60-70 years after the last time we completely rethought our living space.

We've talked about this before, but The Netherlands completely redesigned (at least the western half of) the country for two things: one, to maximise agricultural production, and two, to prepare the environment for mass car ownership. We succeeded at the former (The Netherlands is the second largest exporter of agricultural products, after the US, but before Germany - despite our tiny surface area), but we only partially succeeded at the latter (traffic jams are a huge problem all over the country).

As an aside: when I say "redesigned the country", I literally mean that the entire map was redrawn. This map should illustrate really well what the Dutch government, the agricultural sector, and industry agreed upon to do; the 'messy' part is the swampy, irregularly shaped way it used to look, while the straight and clean part is what they turned it into. Gone are the irregularly shaped, inefficient patches of farmland only navigable on foot and in boats, and in their place we got large, patches of land, easily reachable by newly drawn roads to make way for cars and trucks (still countless waterways though; they are crucial for making sure the entire western half of the country doesn't flood).

My parents and grandparents lived through this massive redesign, and according to them, it's very difficult to overstate just how massive the undertaking really was.

It's unlikely said redesign will be undone on a massive, regional scale, but at the local level, I can foresee countless pro-car infrastructure and landscaping changes being undone because it's simply not needed anymore. For instance, many towns in my area - including my own - used to have a waterway (like so) running alongside their Main Street (generally 'Dorpsstraat' in Dutch), but in order for a Main Street to be ready for cars, people had to walk elsewhere; the waterways were often filled up and turned into footpaths or sidewalks, so cars could drive on Main Street.

Over the coming decades, I can definitely see such changes being undone in certain places - especially more tourist-oriented towns such as my own. With fewer and fewer cars on the roads, we can start giving space back to people, and while this may not be a big deal in a spacious country like the United States, it will be a revolution here in The Netherlands, the most densely populated western country (that isn't a city state), and in classic cities like, say, Rome or Amsterdam.

All I'm trying to say is that self-driving car technology will, inevitably, have side-effects that many people simply haven't even considered yet. All of us consider cars a normal aspect of our everyday lives and environment, to the point where we've forgotten just how much space we've conceded to the things. Once the dominance of cars starts to come down like a house of cards, our environment will, quite literally, change.

Thread beginning with comment 633398
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Or maybe not
by reez on Fri 19th Aug 2016 19:46 UTC in reply to "Or maybe not"
reez
Member since:
2006-06-28

but all these theories about future cars and trucks (lorries ?) reminds of the flying cars and atomic trains predicted in the 60's for 40 years later. We're still waiting.


But the main difference here is that the complexity and cost vs the potential gains doesn't play out. I think it has more to do with economy than anything else.

I am not saying there are no gains, but just that the gains compared to costs are not anywhere as near as you not having to pay a truck driver, that for very long roads doesn't need to do very complex work.

For a flying car you probably would need new infrastructure, many systems to avoid bad things to happen, you would need to educate "drivers" way better, you would need someone that knows piloting and driving and everything that combines it.

Or you would maybe need some automation, which is what self driving cars offer.

Might turn out to be wrong, but to me flying cars never really seemed to be a plausible evolution. You'd more likely advance aircrafts and maybe teach them to drive.

And then there is hovering. That would probably make city life more annoying. Know how it is when a car goes through mud next to you and you get in on you? Imagine something like that with every kind of dirt. It's not pleasant to stand next to a helicopter.

I think automation of something that's there is much more sane.

I see flying cars more like jetpacks. They are cool, just like flying cars, but they are pretty impractical for most things and both face problems like stability and energy efficiency.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Or maybe not
by Treza on Fri 19th Aug 2016 23:15 in reply to "RE: Or maybe not"
Treza Member since:
2006-01-11

You are right, this is a bad analogy.

I'm also quite biased by my experience in aeronautics where everything safety critical is incredibly complex and expensive to develop. One must prove the behaviour of the equipments for all inputs values and scenarios, with all weird degraded modes where the system must gracefully support losing sensors or actuators. And there is redundancy. And dissemblance between independant critical systems. And even more redundancy to allow flying for some time with some defective equipments. And a crazy amount of documentation... etc...

Of course, the economies of scale of cars can reduce costs in a way that many other industries can only dream of, but there is nothing simple in making a reliable self driving car and it is orders of magnitude more complex than an aircraft autopilot following waypoints and TCAS avoiding collisions. And still there are accidents sometimes, because a Pitot tube freezes, because an old screw worns out...
Maybe it is more doable for cars because when an aircraft crashes there is a lot of media attention, an official investigation and mandatory corrective actions. For cars, anything better than the average human is progress, even if sometimes some drunk software will randomly kill pedestrians.

The "self-driving trucks" future could be also be compared to the situation in Switzerland, where they actively try to minimize the number of trucks crossing the country, using trains, digging railways tunnels (Gothard...).
You can put a truck on a train, keep the chauffeur for the next load or make him sleep in the train, for long distances it can be faster and more efficient, and generate less pollution, and make motorways less dangerous.

There are many ways to change how people and goods are transported. Automatic cars everywhere is just a possible future, among many others.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Or maybe not
by unclefester on Sat 20th Aug 2016 07:05 in reply to "RE[2]: Or maybe not"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

A plane can't stop in mid-air. A car can simply slow to a halt with the hazard lights flashing if something goes wrong. The driver can simply hit the 'Manual' mode switch and start driving again.

That said I still think autonomous cars are mostly hype.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Or maybe not
by reez on Sun 21st Aug 2016 13:19 in reply to "RE[2]: Or maybe not"
reez Member since:
2006-06-28

I agree and I agree on your note that we are in a hype and that it will likely not be the way people expect, just because there are many things that can happen and it's not good to have people predict the future and thing "that's exactly how it will be like".

I also think that we are in a current phase of hype, where predictions, especially further than a few months make seem people mostly ridiculous.

Of course that's what companies kind of have to do, selling visions to potential investors and customers. That's just the way things are done in the current times.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Or maybe not
by dionicio on Fri 19th Aug 2016 23:36 in reply to "RE: Or maybe not"
dionicio Member since:
2006-07-12

Even with HD video, still doesn't believe at Franky Zapata creature. If true, no doubt it will be monopolized by military wing. Being of the shelf tech, just until a credible industry is born around the concept.

http://newatlas.com/franky-zapata-flyboard-air-video/42734/

Reply Parent Score: 2