Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 23rd Nov 2016 15:53 UTC
Legal

The UK is about to become one of the world's foremost surveillance states, allowing its police and intelligence agencies to spy on its own people to a degree that is unprecedented for a democracy. The UN's privacy chief has called the situation "worse than scary." Edward Snowden says it’s simply "the most extreme surveillance in the history of western democracy."

The legislation in question is called the Investigatory Powers Bill. It's been cleared by politicians and awaits only the formality of royal assent before it becomes law. The bill will legalize the UK's global surveillance program, which scoops up communications data from around the world, but it will also introduce new domestic powers, including a government database that stores the web history of every citizen in the country. UK spies will be empowered to hack individuals, internet infrastructure, and even whole towns - if the government deems it necessary.

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame?"

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rom508
Member since:
2007-04-20

I'm not going to be rude to you, all I can say is that people who have very liberal views on certain things ( no surveillance of any kind, human rights act for criminals, uncontrolled immigration) have a tendency to undermine our way of life and endanger people's lives by making the UK and Europe a soft target for various criminals.

Reply Parent Score: 0

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm not going to be rude to you, all I can say is that people who have very liberal views on certain things ( no surveillance of any kind, human rights act for criminals, uncontrolled immigration) have a tendency to undermine our way of life and endanger people's lives by making the UK and Europe a soft target for various criminals.


That's probably why Europe has some of the lowest crime rates by a huge margin - crime rates that go down the more "liberal" the specific nation is.

Don't let the facts hit you on the way out!

Reply Parent Score: 3

rom508 Member since:
2007-04-20

Please don't make things up, crime has nothing to do with how liberal your country is, which is why in liberal Sweden and Germany crimes rates shot up as those countries were flooded with migrants.

Crime has many different origins, but the most common are - poverty, drug use, easy access to guns, poor education and influence by gang culture, etc.

Reply Parent Score: 0

daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

Someone who has committed a crime shouldn't have human rights?

How about the right to life? (Article 2)
Not to be tortured (Article 3)
To get a fair trial (Article 6)
Not to be declared a criminal retroactively (Article 7)
Freedom of thought and religion (Article 9)
Effective remedy for breaches of human rights (Article 13)
Not to be discriminated against (Article 14)

What people who complain about human rights fail to understand is the Human Rights Act, and ECHR which it implements, contains a number of exceptions which allow things like the right to a private life (Article 8) to be ignored for things like national security, for some articles (Article 10 for instance) for the prevention of crime. These very sensibly are not allowed for things like 3 and 6.

I didn't mention Article 5, liberty and security for a good reason. Being convicted of a crime quite often results in temporarily losing this one. Which is allowable under HRA and ECHR.

Reply Parent Score: 3

rom508 Member since:
2007-04-20

It is a well known fact that in the past a number of convicted terrorists have not been deported out of the UK, because their lawyers used human rights act. And when they were finally deported, this was done at a huge cost to the British taxpayer, that money would have been better spent on schools and hospitals.

And to answer your question, if you commit acts of terrorism where innocent people lose their lives, then you should have no rights at all. You should be hanged, drawn and quartered. What would you say to the families of those who died in the Paris and Nice attacks? What about their rights and their lives?

Reply Parent Score: 0

alexeipavlov1974 Member since:
2015-06-25

"Sh1t happens!" (c) Real Life.

Reply Parent Score: 1