Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 26th Nov 2005 17:02 UTC, submitted by Megatux
Gnome "I followed the debate about a successor for the C/C++ combination as the primary language for developing the GNOME core desktop platform very closely last month. There has been discussion about a number of options. What I would like to do on this page is give an overview how a probably less well-known language might be a viable compromise as a C/C++ successor. This language is called Eiffel and exists for over a decade. Eiffel takes the principle of Object-Oriented programming to its extremes and, as a consequence, is a very easy to learn language."
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RE: Wow
by ma_d on Sun 27th Nov 2005 05:15 UTC in reply to "Wow"
ma_d
Member since:
2005-06-29

The only way to produce bug free software is to write a formal (not necessarily by syntax, but by structure and provability) proof for your code.
This is not reasonable for very many people to do, and so very few people do this. Not because we're not all smart enough, but because some of the proofs would take us a lifetime to write.
The general rule is that when someone claims they have a bug free program, and they don't have a proof (and it's not a joke), you avoid it because you know they're either an egomaniac, deluded, or lying.

"I don't know anyone who knows the entirety of the C++ syntax."
There are a lot of languages which provide the features of c++ without the mess that c++ is. Eiffel is not the only one. It might be one of the oldest though.

"It to Be, Inc. ten years to build the BeOS into a workable system working with C++ when they could have done that in a third of the time with Eiffel and have had a far more modular and stable system."
Do you know how I know that statements wrong? You claimed tripled efficiency simply by changing to a different language. C++ is only that detrimental if you don't know how to use it, and I imagine the folks at Be knew it, or they'd not have chosen it.

"That being said, if the open source community switched to Eiffel, it would practically eliminate most security vulnerabilites and bugs and have a tremendous advantage over closed-source projects, especially Microsoft."
No. No. Please stop saying this... If this were correct, then we'd know that all security bugs are caused by memory management issues and stupid function i/o issues. Then we could solve them all by making the heap non-executable and never putting data on the stack; woops you still have vulnerabilities.


You're making far to outlandish claims about what Eiffel will do for a project. There's just no quick fix to the problem: Programs are complex. That's life, you try and make it better, but you know you aren't going to find the fountain of youth...

And so, when someone says "tripled productivity" you immediately say "am I really wasting 2/3 of my day?" "Can I even type fast enough to triple my productivity?" "Would my sanity last 8 hours if I worked three times as fast?" "Are 2/3 of the problems I solve every day just flaws in the language I use?"

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Wow
by on Mon 28th Nov 2005 00:53 in reply to "RE: Wow"
Member since:

This is the reason why Open Source is doomed. The productivity claims have been proven but a naysayer who has never used Eiffel claims they are false. Nuff said.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Wow
by bytecoder on Mon 28th Nov 2005 01:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
bytecoder Member since:
2005-11-27

"Productivity claims" aren't what drive users to use a language; the language is what drives users to use it. If it's not popular and it's been around for a while, it's very likely the people don't like something about it. Besides, I don't think it's possible for "Open Source" to be doomed. It's basically a never-ending hobby.

-bytecoder

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Wow
by ma_d on Mon 28th Nov 2005 03:20 in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

Cite.

Reply Parent Score: 1