Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 17:51 UTC
Windows

Microsoft is making a bigger push to keep students and teachers using Windows this week. At the annual Bett education show in London, Microsoft is revealing new Windows 10 and Windows 10 S devices that are priced from just $189. The software giant is also partnering with the BBC, LEGO, NASA, PBS, and Pearson to bring a variety of Mixed Reality and video curricula to schools.

Lenovo has created a $189 100e laptop. It’s based on Intel’s Celeron Apollo Lake chips, so it’s a low-cost netbook essentially, designed for schools. Lenovo is also introducing its 300e, a 2-in-1 laptop with pen support, priced at $279. The new Lenovo devices are joined by two from JP, with a Windows Hello laptop priced at $199 and a pen and touch device at $299. All four laptops will be targeted towards education, designed to convince schools not to switch to Chromebooks.

I'm not sure if these wil persuade schools away from Chromebooks, but assuming non-education customers can get them as well, they may be great little machines for running secondary operating systems on.

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I'm a bit off but...
by franzrogar on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 18:24 UTC
franzrogar
Member since:
2012-05-17

Why on earth would I pay $189 with a low CPU + chunked OS when, for such price, I can buy a second-hand *real* laptop with the full CPU + OS?

This' also applies to Chromebooks.

Reply Score: 7

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by Kroc on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 18:35 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I paid £200 for a second-hand Lenovo X240, Core i5 4200U 1.6-2.3GHz. This is by and far away more powerful than the trash you could buy new for the same price.

*Never* buy the cheapest Windows laptop. It'll perform badly and within two years won't be fast enough to even function (All those Atom netbooks that couldn't even play YouTube videos fast enough...)

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by smashIt on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 19:12 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

I paid £200 for a second-hand Lenovo X240, Core i5 4200U 1.6-2.3GHz. This is by and far away more powerful than the trash you could buy new for the same price.


I got my parents a used T420 for christmas.
For 130€ there is no new laptop that could even come close to it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by echo.ranger on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 20:57 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
echo.ranger Member since:
2007-01-17

The lovely aspects of buying corporate off-lease equipment, I have to agree.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by Earl C Pottinger on Wed 24th Jan 2018 02:02 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
Earl C Pottinger Member since:
2008-07-12

I have an old Toshiba 405B, with Windows 7 it is very slow but works fine playing videos with the latest Haiku-OS installed on a small SSD.

The thing to remember is even the lowest power laptop is way more powerful than the original hardware that we use to run BeOS on.

Edited 2018-01-24 02:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by shotsman on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 20:14 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Lock-in ,lock-in, and lock-in
Get them young and used to $10/month subscriptions and they are hooked for life.
Simple really.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by cranfordio on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 20:58 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
cranfordio Member since:
2005-11-10

While individuals can usually find great deals on used laptops it is a lot harder for a school. Not that we can’t find the deals, just that it is hard to find them in the volume you need without having to buy dozens of different models which can add additional problems. I buy ~140 laptops every year, and we are a medium sized private school. I used to work for a district that bought around 5000 laptops per year. But, I still would never buy this. My experience with any laptop that cost less than $500 brand new has always been horrible, at least as far as having them in the hands of middle school kids they are.

Reply Parent Score: 6

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Did you ever try buying laptops off lease?

I used to help source pcs for my school friends from various online off lease resellers.

They worked out pretty well. Would recommend to any school that wants Windows for some reason. Now, obviously no warentee or service plan existed. So that's not so great, but otherwise they worked out well as expected for windows pcs.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by kwan_e on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 23:15 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

The first question to ask is does laptops actually help with education?

Research says not really.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by jpkx1984 on Mon 22nd Jan 2018 23:08 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
jpkx1984 Member since:
2015-01-06

Long story short: battery life and well.. fresh look.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by bassbeast on Tue 23rd Jan 2018 00:34 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Because it isn't FOR you, its for schools and businesses?

This is why I HATE the "ZOMG Windows S means we won't get a full OS anymore OMG!" FUD because all Windows S is for is to give schools and business users an easy to control option where they don't have to worry about the users infecting the PCs because all the programs are vetted through the Windows Store. this lets them use normal business software (which is nearly all Windows only) and education titles (ditto) without having to worry about malware.

The big difference between Windows S and ChromeOS is you have the option to make it a full OS without losing your programs, something that simply is not possible for ChromeOS which requires you to wipe the drive (no dual boot allowed last I checked) and install one of a handful of Linux distros (can't just install any OS you want) onto its locked down hardware. That means in a couple of years when these units are sent back after their leases are up they can be sold cheaply on the used market and if you want to make it a full Windows 10 laptop? You can change it to full Windows 10 for $50 which is a lot cheaper than the cost of a retail copy.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by Alfman on Tue 23rd Jan 2018 07:50 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

bassbeast,

Because it isn't FOR you, its for schools and businesses?

This is why I HATE the "ZOMG Windows S means we won't get a full OS anymore OMG!" FUD because all Windows S is for is to give schools and business users an easy to control option where they don't have to worry about the users infecting the PCs because all the programs are vetted through the Windows Store. this lets them use normal business software (which is nearly all Windows only) and education titles (ditto) without having to worry about malware.


I know you hate it, but it is nevertheless a very legitimate criticism. Remember school laptops are being paid for by public tax dollars and not microsoft, they should not be restricted to microsoft or any other corporate control. It's one thing for school administrators to have control, this is completely justified, but it is NEVER going to be ok that microsoft dictates what schools are allowed to run. Frankly I'm tired of people who try to justify this.


The big difference between Windows S and ChromeOS is you have the option to make it a full OS without losing your programs, something that simply is not possible for ChromeOS which requires you to wipe the drive (no dual boot allowed last I checked) and install one of a handful of Linux distros (can't just install any OS you want) onto its locked down hardware. That means in a couple of years when these units are sent back after their leases are up they can be sold cheaply on the used market and if you want to make it a full Windows 10 laptop? You can change it to full Windows 10 for $50 which is a lot cheaper than the cost of a retail copy.


MS simply shouldn't have a say at all what the school does with 3rd party software. This is wrong. I shouldn't have to pay my car manufacturer a single cent for the right to use a 3rd party mechanic, and in the same vein I shouldn't have to pay microsoft for the right to go use 3rd party software!


What would you do if the federal government were forcing the schools to run only government approved software? Or if they imposed a computer use fee for the government to unlock your computer to 3rd party software? You don't have to answer because I know you all to well, you'd be up in arms over it, and rightfully so! But why oh why do you think it's ok for private corporations (microsoft, google, apple) to do the very same thing? Handing corporations this control sets an extremely dangerous precedent. If you cannot be convinced that corporate control over schools/students/teachers/users is bad in it's own right, then at least admit to yourself that as corporations keep building computer jails, these jails have the potential to be regulated by governments seeking to impose control too. Repressive government regimes and dictators must love where microsoft and others are going with this, but even in the US it won't be long before politicians start pushing bills that take advantage of this centralized control that private companies have over our computers. When that day comes, you'll have no right to complain about it...as much as you will hate it, because the truth will be that you were complicit in supporting the developments that led to us being locked down.


And sure, I already know you are going to respond saying this is all all big exaggeration. But if we don't stand up when rights and control are taken away from us gradually, then those changes set the new norms, which become accepted, and over time this is how all of our rights erode.

Edited 2018-01-23 08:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I'm a bit off but...
by dionicio on Tue 23rd Jan 2018 15:16 in reply to "RE: I'm a bit off but..."
dionicio Member since:
2006-07-12

So many subtleties inducting lock-in. But Windows S is about Service. Cheap units are not worth the average geek pulling of hairs, an per-hour tariff.

As long as damage delimited to the stack, worst case amount to reinstall everything (even the BIOS) from the Store and pulling back the users' profiles from the profiles' "cloud". User initiated, Microsoft Managed...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by calden on Tue 23rd Jan 2018 23:13 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
calden Member since:
2012-02-02

Though I agree, buying something like a Thinkpad X240 for around $350, with an i7, 16GB RAM, 240GB SSD and external battery slice would be the better buy for a lot more people.

I still wouldn't give up my new Samsung ChromeBook Pro that I bought opened-box from BestBuy for $480. It's running, ChromeOS, Android and Linux, even Windows 10 when I bring it up though the just awesome Citrix client. The Android apps that I use with it like; Word, VLC, Pinterest, Flipboard, Bamboo, Adobe apps (all of them), SketchBook, etc. Under Linux I'm running the full version of Office using the new version of Wine(awesome), as well as programming, Apache, PHP, Python, Ruby, Perl, MySQL, TomCAT, Java, C+, Android, etc.

I love everything about it, it's size, it's speed, it's display, it's battery life (which is longer than any other tablet I have ever owned), etc. Anyway who say's ChromeOS is useless has zero idea what they are talking about, period. There is absolutely nothing I can't do on this thing that a similar spec'd Windows or OSX machine could do. The input or the way you do something may be different, the desired output or outcome will be one hundred percent identical.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: I'm a bit off but...
by Stephen! on Wed 24th Jan 2018 13:27 in reply to "I'm a bit off but..."
Stephen! Member since:
2007-11-24

Why on earth would I pay $189 with a low CPU + chunked OS when, for such price, I can buy a second-hand *real* laptop with the full CPU + OS?


It would probably depend on what your needs are from a computer. Whether it's just something for general use or a need for specific Windows applications and games.

The existence of Chromebooks would seem to work to Microsoft's advantage, considering they've previously been accused of having a monopoly.

Reply Parent Score: 3