Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 6th Mar 2018 20:12 UTC
Windows

Microsoft is once again tackling privacy concerns around Windows 10 today. The software giant is releasing a new test build of Windows 10 to Windows Insiders today that includes changes to the privacy controls for the operating system. While most privacy settings have been confined to a single screen with multiple options, Microsoft is testing a variety of ways that will soon change.

There have been some concerns that Windows 10 has a built-in “keylogger,” because the operating system uses typing data to improve autocompletion, next word prediction, and spelling correction. Microsoft’s upcoming spring update for Windows 10 will introduce a separate screen to enable improved inking and typing recognition, and allow users to opt-out of sending inking and typing data to Microsoft.

I doubt any of these changes will reassure people who refuse to use Windows because of privacy concerns.

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RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar
by grat on Thu 8th Mar 2018 17:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Drumhellar"
grat
Member since:
2006-02-02

It is a fact that Microsoft collects huge amounts of personal telemetry data, regardless of your consent.

If you take out "personal", I'd probably agree with you.

Trust is usually earned. If you trust anything that does not respect your rights, then I would venture that you are naive.

No, I just choose not to live a life full of paranoia and tin-hat conspiracies. Nothing in the Snowden releases particularly surprised me-- there have been enough credible stories over the years to know they're going to grab everything they can.

However, Microsoft, unlike Google, Apple and Facebook (and the NSA), actually released a tool that allows you to see what data they collect-- But the general consensus is that they're lying, with no proof whatsoever.

If someone can prove there's data being collected by Microsoft that they aren't revealing in their data diagnostic tool, then that's news. That's evidence of further misbehavior.

So far, no one has produced such evidence.

What Microsoft is doing is not very complex or devious. It is simply an invasion of privacy. Google does it. Apple does it. They are making a clear choice not to respect your constitutional and basic human right. If you are lax about it, then you are part of the flock of the vast majority.

The government does it, your ISP does it, every web advertiser does it, Facebook, Google, and Apple does it-- Nothing you do on the web is a secret. Accept it, and move on.

Microsoft is, theoretically, being more transparent than any of those organizations, so why the hatred for Microsoft?

By the way, thanks for using the word "flock" to prove my point.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Alfman on Thu 8th Mar 2018 21:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

grat,

However, Microsoft, unlike Google, Apple and Facebook (and the NSA), actually released a tool that allows you to see what data they collect-- But the general consensus is that they're lying, with no proof whatsoever.

If someone can prove there's data being collected by Microsoft that they aren't revealing in their data diagnostic tool, then that's news. That's evidence of further misbehavior.

So far, no one has produced such evidence.


I actually think everyone's mostly in agreement, it's just that we're focusing on different parts of the truth. You would be right to claim that there's no evidence that microsoft is lying about the data collection, however no one here on osnews has asserted the opposite. What has been asserted is that what microsoft's claims cannot be verified because the code is proprietary. Both of these can be simultaneously true, so IMHO there's no reason for there to be a disagreement about it.

The government does it, your ISP does it, every web advertiser does it, Facebook, Google, and Apple does it-- Nothing you do on the web is a secret. Accept it, and move on.


Well, if a company claims XYZ to be true, then XYZ had better be true otherwise it may merit a lawsuit.

Microsoft is, theoretically, being more transparent than any of those organizations, so why the hatred for Microsoft?


But it's NOT just microsoft...it never has been. In fact even in the post to which you responded, tomchr explicitly named apple and google guilty as well. As patrix pointed out, this seems to happen a lot when some company goes under the microscope: "Why the hatred for <X>? Why aren't we criticizing <others>?" The truth is that every week we DO criticize google, apple, facebook, etc. Just because it's microsoft's turn doesn't mean we're giving other companies a pass. People CAN criticize microsoft without being hypocrites about it!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar
by tomchr on Thu 8th Mar 2018 23:10 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar"
tomchr Member since:
2009-02-01

grat,

Excuse me, but you are contradicting yourself.

First you find it amusing that other people believe in company conspiracies. Next you state that you are not at all surprised about the Snowden releases, since you yourself found the stories over the years credible (i.e. former conspiracy stories). Lastly, you clearly state that 'everyone' is doing it and nothing you do on the web is a secret. It seems to me that you are the paranoid one.

I am not at all concerned about conspiracies and paranoia. I am concerned with Microsoft's abuse of privacy, since this is done at operating system-level. Windows 10's privacy settings have been found "not trustworthy" by experts, organisations and authorities.

The fact that governments, coorperations, ISPs et al. are abusing your rights as well does not excuse them from moral or legal ramifications.

How about standing up for your rights for a change?

One more thing, beliefs are not something you pick up at Walmarts at $10 discount. You either have faith or you don't. Beliefs can't change facts. Facts, however, should change your beliefs.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[7]: Comment by Drumhellar
by grat on Fri 9th Mar 2018 17:33 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar"
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

grat,

Excuse me, but you are contradicting yourself.

First you find it amusing that other people believe in company conspiracies. Next you state that you are not at all surprised about the Snowden releases, since you yourself found the stories over the years credible (i.e. former conspiracy stories).

Stories in major newspapers and a lawsuit over "Room 641A" aren't 'conspiracy stories'-- they're facts. They're not even alternative facts, they're actual truth.

Lastly, you clearly state that 'everyone' is doing it and nothing you do on the web is a secret. It seems to me that you are the paranoid one.

As an IT professional, I know what data is available at the ISP level-- it's trivial to correlate DHCP and firewall logs to produce an easily read list of websites (and URL's) a given user accesses.

Having read articles about researchers decoding keystrokes via two cellphones and acoustic mapping algorithms, or knowing that the NSA can turn your analog monitor signal into a visible image from a distance-- it's kind of hard to believe that "privacy" has any real meaning these days.

I am concerned with Microsoft's abuse of privacy, since this is done at operating system-level.

... and this is where I have a problem. You have an OS on your computer, which is collecting data. You have the option to disable much of that data collection. Microsoft has produced a tool that allows you to see what data is being collected.

And yet, you don't believe them. Not because there's any evidence they're lying, not because they've used that data in a malicious way, or even for marketing, but simply because "well, Microsoft behaved badly once".

They're far more open about what they're doing than the NSA, Facebook, Google, or Apple-- Try turning off some of the Google Assistant tracking functionality-- or Alexa, or Siri.

Neither Apple nor Google give you fine-grained controls over what data is collected about you. Google not only collects what you do with your phone, they collect what you do with your gmail account, your google searches, your youtube account-- and show very little as to what they're actually collecting, or what they're doing.

But somehow, Microsoft is perceived as the bad guys here.

Windows 10's privacy settings have been found "not trustworthy" by experts, organisations and authorities.

Have you actually read through the data structures that Microsoft gathers? I have. I believe a link was published on this site to the data fields that are available via Microsoft telemetry. It's nearly all OS related, and very little (if any) user identifiable data is available.

The major privacy leaks (cortana, edge, etc.) are easily turned off. Not that it matters, since the moment you open a browser, you're leaking far more information that Microsoft will ever gather about you.

The fact that governments, coorperations, ISPs et al. are abusing your rights as well does not excuse them from moral or legal ramifications.

How about standing up for your rights for a change?

No one else is. I live in Florida-- I'm not even protected by the 4th amendment (within 100 miles of border). My electronic devices aren't subject to protection under the 4th or 5th amendment, and daily, people give Facebook more information about their private lives than the government could accumulate in a decade.

I would cheerfully join the bandwagon, and be part of a pro-privacy crusade-- except people are attacking Microsoft for privacy issues, when they ought to be going after Facebook, Google, and Apple.

Right idea, wrong target.

Reply Parent Score: 4