Linked by Eugenia Loli on Tue 29th Nov 2005 08:43 UTC, submitted by Aparan
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y The second part of the comparison of Windows Vista beta and Mac OS X "Tiger" continues with an examination of the security, networking, and power management features in each system.
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The article IS worth reading
by on Tue 29th Nov 2005 13:23 UTC

Member since:

To some posters: Why even bothering posting if you haven't even read the article? Is osnews slashdot now?
(disclaimer: I am currently not using win nor osx, though I am thinking of buying a mac which is why the comparisons are important to me. Nor am I native english which will explain the odd wording and/or spelling.)

These articles are needed. For everyones sake, MS need to know how to improve Vista before its release, because it will be difficult to implement serious/radical changes after its release.
The article show clear and objective comparisons, which are easily verified by the reader with screenshots. The most striking difference I noted is this; It (the article) show pretty clearly that OsX has clear gui guidelines and that Vista has not. For example; most functions on the notification icons in OsX can be reached in one click while Vista show different (but related) dialogs if an icon is clicked once, double clicked, right clicked or right clicked plus chosing a menu option. It is also clear that OsX (and some Linux variants such as Ubuntu which I use atm) security system, such as using sudo, is so good that MS have replicated it to Vista.

Here are what I would have done if I were in charge for Vista with the unlimited funding that MS has got:

The system:
1. Rid Vista of the backward compatability. Cut away the fat.
2. Redesigned the OS from the core up with multi user security in mind.
3. Ditto for network security.
4. Remove application tie-ins from the kernel (to improve security).
5. Minimise the number of daemons running at startup.
6. GUI need to be usable and snappy first, transparent and flashy second (yes BeOS 5 is a very good example of this).

General stuff:
1. Using Svg for icons will greatly increase future backward compatability in future releases.
2. Mp3, Ogg, Flac support in addition to the other formats.
3. Remove as many right-clicks as possible.

Applications:
1. All native applications should use same gui guidelines (MediaPlayer I am looking at you).
2. The browser should be used for browsing only, let external application handle the rest (non lethal plugins allowed, see firefox).
3. Simple Text editor included that can read/write .doc but save is default to ODT or .txt format. Let the commercial apps have the spellcheck and complex formatting.
4. We're almost in 2006, my Vista would have a usable wav editor.
5. Feeling very generous, I will include ftp and ssh servers.

What would you do? Any other ideas?

Reply Score: 3

RE: The article IS worth reading
by zlynx on Tue 29th Nov 2005 15:06 in reply to "The article IS worth reading"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

1. Rid Vista of the backward compatability. Cut away the fat.
Can't do that. Backward compatibility is probably the #1 reason for Microsoft and Windows' success. Losing that would be a sure way to kill Vista. Customers would keep their old versions of Windows, or start using Wine.

Just imagine how upset everyone would be if they needed to buy all new software every time Windows was updated.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Member since:

"Can't do that. Backward compatibility is probably the #1 reason for Microsoft and Windows' success. Losing that would be a sure way to kill Vista. Customers would keep their old versions of Windows, or start using Wine."
With virtualization at the door, I expect that finally MS will get rid of old crap and wrong security paradigms that now are so tightly bounded in the system to allow retrocompatibility and to allow to run bad old software written with monouser in mind.
If not in a future Vista Service Pack, I expect the future Blackcomb to be something totally incompatible, as system, to the "old" dos/win16/win32/.net word, running smoothly apps of each of those words in sandboxed complete virtual machine that would try to securely keep at bait nearly any security abuse possible in bad software they are running, while old *x style security will be progressively become obsolete letting bad apps to do disasters like the millions of codes of credit cards stolen from hipersecure *x server due to bogus application software...

Reply Parent Score: 0

protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

"Just imagine how upset everyone would be if they needed to buy all new software every time Windows was updated."

Uhh, you just about have to do that anyway when a major new Windows release comes around. I have been there and done that which is one of the big reasons I stopped using Windows.

Bill

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: The article IS worth reading
by on Tue 29th Nov 2005 15:07 in reply to "The article IS worth reading"
Member since:

> Here are what I would have done if I were in charge for Vista with the unlimited funding that MS has got:
>
> The system:
> 1. Rid Vista of the backward compatability. Cut away the fat.

They are cleaning the code but backwards compatibility must be there that's why Windows is so successful.

> 2. Redesigned the OS from the core up wi
th multi user security in mind.

They redesigned Vista but it's pointless to redesign it "from the core up". The NT line was designed as a multi-user OS.

> 3. Ditto for network security.

You should read about the changes in their TCP/IP stack. Search for it on their blog (wndp) and on channel9.

> 4. Remove application tie-ins from the kernel (to improve security).

I'm sure they improved the kernel a lot and removed a lot of "tie-ins" but you can't be sure if these things are real security risks.

> 5. Minimise the number of daemons running at startup.

What kind of daemons? Anyway startup will be improved a lot. Their goal is to decrease startup time a lot.

> 6. GUI need to be usable and snappy first, transparent and flashy second (yes BeOS 5 is a very good example of this).

Well, you can't try the GUI on the screenshots but Vista is very useable. Transparency is only there for showing off the capabilities.

> General stuff:
> 1. Using Svg for icons will greatly increase future backward compatability in future releases.

It's true for anything else. But i know it's a good idea. They stated that png is the new icon format but i think there will be more advanced possibilities for icons using Avalon.

> 2. Mp3, Ogg, Flac support in addition to the other formats.

Ogg and Flac support is not really important from a business perspective. You will be able to play Ogg and Flac by 3rd party software.

> 3. Remove as many right-clicks as possible.

It seems a good idea but i don't know what do you mean.

> Applications:
> 1. All native applications should use same gui guidelines (MediaPlayer I am looking at you).

I think they do it. Just check WMP11 screenshots. The direction is good imho.

> 2. The browser should be used for browsing only, let external application handle the rest
> (non lethal plugins allowed, see firefox).

I think IE is a very basic browser and isn't good for anything else right now.

> 3. Simple Text editor included that can read/write .doc but save is default to ODT or .txt format.
> Let the commercial apps have the spellcheck and complex formatting.

I agree but then nobody would buy MS Word. I asked them hundred times... they released an updated Word, Excel, PPoint Viewer - at least.

> 4. We're almost in 2006, my Vista would have a usable wav editor.

You haven't seen the video about the new Audio stack in Vista. Check it on Channel9.

> 5. Feeling very generous, I will include ftp and ssh servers.

They are included in some version of Windows and will be included in Vista. But it's a trade-off. If they integrate everything they will be sued.
Why do you want to kill 3rd parties? They make software for ftp, ssh, etc...

Reply Parent Score: 2

protagonist Member since:
2005-07-06

"To some posters: Why even bothering posting if you haven't even read the article? Is osnews slashdot now?"

I have to agree with you on this. I enjoy reading reviews even when the author appears to be a bit biased. I mean how good could an OS be if none of its users were biased in its favor? I read the article and enjoyed it. I hope the writer doesn't get turned off by all the negative comments.

What I find more amusing is the amount of time wasted posting comments about an article that people do not read. Oh well, it is their time.

Bill

Reply Parent Score: 1