Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 16th Dec 2005 14:57 UTC, submitted by mlauzon
Windows "Microsoft will move the graphics for its next version of Windows outside of the operating system's kernel to improve reliability, the software giant has told Techworld. Vista's graphics subsystem, codenamed Avalon and formally known as the Windows Presentation Foundation, will be pulled out the kernel because many lock-ups are the result of the GUI freezing, Microsoft infrastructure architect Giovanni Marchetti told us exclusively yesterday."
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RE: Novel???
by SEJeff on Fri 16th Dec 2005 15:09 UTC in reply to "Novel???"
SEJeff
Member since:
2005-11-05

No this will not be client/server. They are trying to shift the windows kernel design closer to a microkernel. In a microkernel, all of the drivers run in userspace and a very very small portion of code runs in userspace. A microkernel is the best design in theory, but implementation is the hardest.

The closest OS to being a full microkernel is minix http://www.minix3.org but even it isn't completely micro. Microkernels are *MUCH* more stable as you can more or less plug and play add / remove drivers and nothing serious will break if the drivers die.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Novel???
by rayiner on Fri 16th Dec 2005 15:24 in reply to "RE: Novel???"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

1) All microkernel systems are based on client/server. There is the kernel, then there are servers (eg: X or Avalon), then there are clients (applications). You want to draw something on the screen, then you do IPC over an appropriate mechanism to talk to the graphics server.

2) Minix, IIRC, puts drivers in the kernel. I'd say the closest OSs to being full microkernels are the L4-based OSs. Minix is small, but L4 is positively tiny.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Novel???
by Lazarus on Fri 16th Dec 2005 18:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Novel???"
Lazarus Member since:
2005-08-10

"2) Minix, IIRC, puts drivers in the kernel."

As of version 3 of Minix, drivers of all sorts are no longer in ther kernel.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Novel???
by on Fri 16th Dec 2005 20:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Novel???"
Member since:

No drivers are really "in the kernel", but a few critcal ones share an address space (although are seperate threads), also some drives have to packaged into the kernel "image" (meaning they are loaded with the kernel by the bootloader) or you get a chicken-and-egg problem with the filesystem driver.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Novel???
by Huehuecoyotyl on Fri 16th Dec 2005 16:05 in reply to "RE: Novel???"
Huehuecoyotyl Member since:
2005-11-09

I am afraid that there was no mention of a microkernel in the article. Microsoft is not going to shift from a monolithic kernel to a microkernel so close to release. The article clearly describes a client/server model.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Novel???
by cilcoder on Sat 17th Dec 2005 03:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Novel???"
cilcoder Member since:
2005-07-06

He didn't say they were changing it TO a microkernel. He said "closer to a microkernel". The NT design is already microkernel-ish(for lack of a better term)/not exactly monolithic.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Novel???
by on Fri 16th Dec 2005 16:34 in reply to "RE: Novel???"
Member since:

'The closest OS to being a full microkernel is minix http://www.minix3.org but even it isn't completely micro. Microkernels are *MUCH* more stable as you can more or less plug and play add / remove drivers and nothing serious will break if the drivers die.'

No, the OS that's closest to being a full microkernel is QNX http://www.qnx.com/.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Novel???
by AnImAl on Fri 16th Dec 2005 17:08 in reply to "RE: Novel???"
AnImAl Member since:
2005-07-15

Nahh.. BeOS I believe, used a microkernal approach and it worked rather well and fast.. Actually... I see vista turning out to be more of a wierd hybrid between osx and beos moreso then linux.. However, thier new effort, which I believe is called symbol or sylibus or something like that is more of a unix clone...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Novel???
by growchie on Fri 16th Dec 2005 21:49 in reply to "RE[3]: Novel???"
growchie Member since:
2005-07-07

Do you mean Singularity?
http://research.microsoft.com/os/singularity/

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Novel???
by CPUGuy on Sat 17th Dec 2005 18:18 in reply to "RE[3]: Novel???"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

BeOS was very much a hybrid system (both monolithic and micro).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Novel???
by on Fri 16th Dec 2005 18:14 in reply to "RE: Novel???"
Member since:

QNX is also a very small microkernel, not sure if it smaller or not than the minix microkernel you mentioned.

Reply Parent Score: 0