Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 21st Jul 2005 21:21 UTC
Java IBM has begun participating in open-source Java project Harmony and intends to contribute code to the initiative, according to a Big Blue executive.
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RE[3]: Why not Mono?
by segedunum on Fri 22nd Jul 2005 12:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Why not Mono?"
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, I notice how you're especially bitter from the desktop developers conference. Poor KDE don't get no respect. Haha.

Yes, I found that extremely hilarious simply because there is a massive gulf (as per usual) between what developers are doing, and think that they're doing, and what real-world users are actually doing and using. Strike one to Eugenia ;-).

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT2127420238.html
http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archive&...

And that's from the people who even know what desktop environment they are using and actually know that there was any kind of survey on!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Why not Mono?
by Lumbergh on Fri 22nd Jul 2005 16:47 in reply to "RE[3]: Why not Mono?"
Lumbergh Member since:
2005-06-29

We all know what the real problem is. And no matter how much kde developers/fanboys put their fingers in their ears, yell "lalalalaa...I can't hear you", and generally throw a tantrum if someone brings up the topic, the problem will always be the Qt license.

And that's why Eclipse (which I noticed you're interested in), and the new Swing in Mustang, and Classpath, and Novell, and RedHat, and Sun all chose gtk+.

So yeah, its no surprise that freedesktop.org is gtk+ oriented because they're used to liberal licenses and also because they are C hackers. And some of those people over at kdedevelopers.org actually have a legitimate point when they are whining about freedesktop.org

Surveys are completely meaningless and you know it. It's like the braindeads in the media doing a poll which nobody buys.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Why not Mono?
by segedunum on Fri 22nd Jul 2005 17:43 in reply to "RE[4]: Why not Mono?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

We all know what the real problem is. And no matter how much kde developers/fanboys put their fingers in their ears, yell "lalalalaa...I can't hear you"

You're going somewhat off-topic now, but when you start talking about KDE everyone knows that you know that you've lost ;-).

And that's why Eclipse (which I noticed you're interested in), and the new Swing in Mustang, and Classpath, and Novell, and RedHat, and Sun all chose gtk+.

Well they use GTK primarily, and quite frankly, so what? IBM actually have an expensive agreement with Trolltech to use Qt for Websphere, but that's by the by.

There is actually no reason why you can't write a KDE application using GTK and integrating with KDE infrastructure, and that's what stuff like QtGTK was, and is, about. The GTK and Qt licenses used are totally compatible. The last I looked GTK, and other tookits, ran fine when running under KDE and Windows and integrated pretty well. That's a pretty good example of how silly these toolkit arguments have got. How many tookits do you see running under Windows? A lot - including GTK and Qt. Do you hear all of this stuff about toolkit X and Y on Windows? No.

However, having good enough programming tools to build a desktop environment and the huge amount of infrastructure needed with is an entirely different matter, and Qt is simply the best option available today for that. The architecture of KDE, the integration, its applications and its quality has proved that.

We're not going to get one toolkit for everything I'm afraid (shock - neither Qt nor GTK will die!), but you simply have to apply the old cliche of what works best for what job. No matter how liberal, or not, the license is there is always a trade-off.

Surveys are completely meaningless and you know it. It's like the braindeads in the media doing a poll which nobody buys.

Yawn. When you've got thousands of people filling in the survey for two years running, and most consistently say they're using KDE, that's fairly conclusive. I'd love to hear about the malicious KDE users who've managed to vote ten times each :-). You can't just ignore surveys you don't like, and I'm sure if the roles were reversed we'd never hear the last of it.

If you have a survey somewhere, or at least some fairly solid evidence, that there are *quote* millions *unquote* of Gnome users, then give us all a call.

Reply Parent Score: 1