Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Dec 2005 18:37 UTC, submitted by Robert Escue
IBM Unix isn't a flashy market. But what distinction there is has been going to Sun Microsystems lately, by making its Unix-based Solaris operating system available as open-source software. Last week, IBM moved to put its AIX Unix operating system back on everybody's radar by revealing plans to create a development center on its Austin, Texas, campus to speed up AIX development.
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RE[4]: One size fits all?
by Simba on Tue 20th Dec 2005 23:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: One size fits all?"
Simba
Member since:
2005-10-08

"Huh? Linux does not drive "commercial competetion down the toilet"."

Of course it does. Look at what it did to commercial UNIX.

"segment of the global server market by a considerable margin."

No disagreement there. But the vast majority of the "global server market" running on Linux was never paid for in any way, shape, or form.

"In any case, the conventional justification for competitive markets is not that it makes it easier to earn a buck, but rather that it makes it easier for the consumer to save a buck."

Sure. And that's the conventional justification for those in the U.S. who claim that outsourcing to India, China, Russia, etc. is good for our economy. It makes it easier for consumers to save a buck. And yes, it does make it easier for consumers to save a buck. But it also puts people out of work, and causes factories to close, and companies to scale back on benefits, and give paycuts, and sometimes even go bankrupt.

So at what point does the consumer saving a buck become not worth the cost to other peoples welfare?

Edited 2005-12-20 23:50

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: One size fits all?
by cr8dle2grave on Wed 21st Dec 2005 00:07 in reply to "RE[4]: One size fits all?"
cr8dle2grave Member since:
2005-07-11

_Of course it does. Look at what it did to commercial UNIX._

Efficient markets are a bitch. Compete or die.

_But the vast majority of the "global server market" running on Linux was never paid for in any way, shape, or form._

The "unpaid for" segment of the Linux market passes entirely under the radar screen. The measurable part of the market (the 35 billion dollar part) consists of that which is paid for.

_And that's the conventional justification for those in the U.S. who claim that outsourcing to India, China, Russia, etc. is good for our economy. It makes it easier for consumers to save a buck. And yes, it does make it easier for consumers to save a buck. But it also puts people out of work, and causes factories to close, and companies to scale back on benefits, and give paycuts, and sometimes even go bankrupt._

It is good for the economy. Perhaps not good for individual software engineers in the US (or widget welders in the rust belt), but good for the economy as a whole.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: One size fits all?
by Simba on Wed 21st Dec 2005 00:11 in reply to "RE[5]: One size fits all?"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

"It is good for the economy. Perhaps not good for individual software engineers in the US (or widget welders in the rust belt), but good for the economy as a whole."

It doesn't matter how cheap things are if people don't have jobs and can't afford to buy them. A good economy cannot survive skyrocketing unemployment.

And I can't agree with turning a highly skilled occupation (software engineer) into a commodity where the average starting pay is less than the average starting pay for an apprentice plumber.

Edited 2005-12-21 00:14

Reply Parent Score: 1

addendum
by cr8dle2grave on Wed 21st Dec 2005 00:14 in reply to "RE[4]: One size fits all?"
cr8dle2grave Member since:
2005-07-11

_So at what point does the consumer saving a buck become not worth the cost to other peoples welfare?_

Theoretically such a tipping point may exist, but it hasn't been observed in practice. This is no different than all of the highly skilled craftsman put out of work in the earlier years of the 20th century by vastly more efficient industrial processes. Maturing markets may make for a bumpy ride at times, but thus far it still seems to be the road which leads to the greatest expansion of wealth and quality life for the greatest number.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: addendum
by Simba on Wed 21st Dec 2005 00:22 in reply to "addendum"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

"Theoretically such a tipping point may exist, but it hasn't been observed in practice."

It most certainly has been observed in practice. GM, who is often considered an economic indicator of the health of the entire U.S. economy, is almost certainly going to file bankruptcy. Why? A lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't compete with low cost imports from Japan and Korea. And often, those imports are dumped in the United States at less than what it costs to make them in order to destroy U.S. competition.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: One size fits all?
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Dec 2005 05:50 in reply to "RE[4]: One size fits all?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Of course it does. Look at what it did to commercial UNIX.

*looks around* hmm, I still see UNIX shipments growing, their margins aren't a high as they used to, but thats competition, UNIX is now being challenged, so they've lowered their price; considering that they're now shipping MORE UNIX systems than they did in the past, with a mild 2% drop in revenue, I'd say they're not doing too bloody bad considering the circumstances.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: One size fits all?
by Simba on Wed 21st Dec 2005 05:58 in reply to "RE[5]: One size fits all?"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

uh... I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers. But I would be very interested in seeing sources. They've suffered far more than a 2% drop in revenue. And commercial UNIX shipments are not growing (with the exception of Solaris, which is only growing because they have matched Linux's price and made it free)

Reply Parent Score: 1