Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Dec 2005 18:37 UTC, submitted by Robert Escue
IBM Unix isn't a flashy market. But what distinction there is has been going to Sun Microsystems lately, by making its Unix-based Solaris operating system available as open-source software. Last week, IBM moved to put its AIX Unix operating system back on everybody's radar by revealing plans to create a development center on its Austin, Texas, campus to speed up AIX development.
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RE[4]: addendum
by cr8dle2grave on Wed 21st Dec 2005 01:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: addendum"
cr8dle2grave
Member since:
2005-07-11

I stand corrected. It was indeed Chrysler not GM. In any case, it's not particularly relevant. As I said, the point still stands. The US economy grew leaps and bounds in the 80's and 90's in spite of the removal of almost all protectionist trade schemes.

I am indeed from the US and, no, I'm not anti-US whatsoever. Reread what I've written. The US will be, on the whole, be a net beneficiary of large segments of the software engineering market going elsewhere. Cheaper software will provide more than sufficient economic stimulus to the economy over the long run to counteract any losses associated with losing programming jobs to overseas competitiors. And were US companies locked into using only more expensive US engineered software, they would suffer a competitive disadvantage relative to their competitors in other countries, which would have severe negative consequences for the economy as a whole.

I understand and sympathize whith those who are being displaced. Nobody likes to be "phased out", but it would extraordinarily foolish to sacrifice the viability and health of the whole economy to salvage one segment of it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: addendum
by Simba on Wed 21st Dec 2005 01:47 in reply to "RE[4]: addendum"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

On the Boston Holocaust Memorial, there is a famous quote by Martin Niemoeller:

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

I can't help but have that quote come to mind when I think of what is happening to jobs in the United States. Everyone thinks it is a good thing to ship jobs overseas, as long as it means they can buy products cheaper... A good thing that is, until they are the ones losing their job because it got shipped overseas.

"I understand and sympathize whith those who are being displaced. Nobody likes to be "phased out", but it would extraordinarily foolish to sacrifice the viability and health of the whole economy to salvage one segment of it."

Except it is not just one segment. First it was low end factory jobs... No one cared because they were just unskilled labor... Then it was electronics manufacturing jobs... Again, no one cared, because they were just trade jobs that people could be trained to do very quickly. Then it was auto manufacturing. Again, no one cared, because those are still "just factory workers. Not my job. And my college degree protects me". Then it was airline mechanics.. Hmm.. Moving up into jobs that require at least an associates degree or technical eduction.. But again, a lot of people took the attitude "Well, it's not my job... and my four year college degree protects me." Now it is software engineers... And suddenly people are forced to realize that their college degree does not protect them anymore. And that even their master's degree education doesn't protect them from having their jobs shipped overseas.

I think people are turning a blind eye to a growing and serious problem in the United States, because basically they are taking the attitude of "It's not my job. Sure it is sad that those people lost their job because of cheaper stuff from overseas... But I'm going to buy the cheaper stuff from overseas anyway. After all, my graduate degree protects me against outsourcing. It's only blue collar work that is getting outsourced."

The outsourcing of software development has proven the fallacy of that argument. Even highly skilled, high education jobs that require graduate degrees are being outsourced.

The problem is that the United States is basically turning into a nation where there will be three kinds of jobs: Upper management (who makes the decision to outsource). A few highly skilled, highly educated jobs that simply can't be outsourced by their nature (doctors, nurses, etc.), and extremely low end unskilled labor that simply can't be outsourced (burger flippers, cashiers, etc).

Is that really what you want?

Edited 2005-12-21 02:03

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: addendum
by on Wed 21st Dec 2005 23:27 in reply to "RE[4]: addendum"
Member since:

The US economy grew by leaps and bounds in the 80's because the government racked up an astronomical debt.

The US economy grew by leaps and bounds in the 90's because consumers racked up an astronomical debt.

The clay feet of the whole economy is maintained by mass delusion at this point, it will be quite ugly when reality sets in...

Can you explain to us how an economy functions when few can afford to buy anything because they are:

A) out of work
B) owe 120% or more of their income to debt payback?
C) both of the above?

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: addendum
by Simba on Wed 21st Dec 2005 23:52 in reply to "RE[5]: addendum"
Simba Member since:
2005-10-08

Exactly.

And that's what the "Outsourcing is good for the economy because it results in cheaper products" advocates don't seem to understand. It doesn't matter much how cheap something is. You can't afford to buy it if you have been out of work for a year. Cheaper products don't much matter if people are living in poverty. It also doesn't matter much when taxes go up because we have to support more people on the welfare system cause they can't get jobs.

"The US economy grew by leaps and bounds in the 80's because the government racked up an astronomical debt."

Bush's "War on terror" is actually racking up even more debt that we did in the 80s during the cold war. We are accumulating debt right now faster than ever.

And yes, it is going to very ugly when reality sets in. When the entire U.S. economy crashes. For some reason the United States thinks it is invincible, and too strong to end up collapsing... Well, that's what the Soviet Union thought. That's also what the Egyptian Empire thought, and the Greek Empire, and the Romans, and the Persians. And no doubt every other large empire throughout history. I'm sure none of them ever concieved of what would happen do them.

And by comparision standards, the United States hasn't even come close to reaching the kind of longevity that other strong nations throughout history have. The Egyptian empire laste over 3,000 years. The United States has been here only a little over 200.

Yes, it is going to be very scary when reality finally sets in, and when all this spending catches up to us.

Reply Parent Score: 1