Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Dec 2005 13:03 UTC, submitted by zam001
X11, Window Managers Aaron Siego of KDE: "It would be very nice if our X server could use OpenGL directly for its display and composition. Because then we could have hardware accelerated effects that are not only cool looking, but also very useful. Well, there is just such a project underway, called XGL. But don't hold your breath. The development of XGL has been largely removed from the community and is being done behind closed doors. Who is this company, you ask, that would take the development of something as potentially important as this out of the community and put it behind closed doors? Novell."
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Curious priorities?
by elsewhere on Wed 21st Dec 2005 03:24 UTC
elsewhere
Member since:
2005-07-13

Hmmm, here's a clip from Novell's portion of the OSDL Desktop Architects meeting this month (link: http://kegel.com/osdl/da05.html#novell ) :

Challenges: OpenOffice is the key! We have 6000 internal users. It's viewed as a cheap clone of MS Office by users. UI is klunky and bad. Looks worse than MS Office. MS Office users have trouble using it. It would be nice if it were faster, good UI, and had some compelling original functionality. We're really dependent on Sun's efforts here. It'd be nice if there was more multilateral development on ooo.

Q. What's stopping Novell from putting more engineers on OOo?
A. We have a few already. It's money, really. If we could have a revenue strea (sp.) from it that'd help.


So OOo2 is identified as one of their biggest challenges for the desktop due to it's design, and they're relying on Sun to improve it because they don't have the resources to justify heavy development on their end.

Fair enough.

But seems to me that investing in improving OOo2 would do far more to help them advance linux as a business desktop than creating an OpenGL based desktop environment. I have to assume they've got more than one or two guys working it if it's really going to fly without external testing and development, even in pre-Alpha stage.

Novell has claimed on more than one occassion that they are going to blow away Microsoft on the desktop in terms of wow factor, a wholly misguided strategy in my opinion. Hype sells home users, it doesn't sell business users (once they manage to cut through it, that is).

I'd like to think they're keeping it closed for now to help speed development before re-opening it as a public project, but I'm cynically inclined to believe that they're keeping it under wraps because they want to showcase it for NLD and be the first out of the gate with it. Then again, NLD 10 is supposed to hit in the first half of next year, I can't see them having it ready by then. An ultra-cynic might think they intend to close it and keep it as a proprietary advantage, but as was pointed out, that would poison them in the OSS community and rightly so.

Still, when you listen to Messman speak about Windows you get the impression they're focussed on replacing Windows at all costs rather than simply providing an alternative to Windows. It might seem like a fine line, but with one you're setting the bar unattainably high and with the other you can focus on specific opportunities that exploit your strength(s). I hope it's just hyperbole ("Vista will drive users to linux!") and that they haven't actually drank that koolaid, otherwise they're doomed.

If they're serious about opensuse being an inccubator project for corporate technologies, maybe it will find it's way into a development version of Suse for testing and development. Maybe.

Who knows. It's all speculation for now. Could all be much ado about nothing.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Curious priorities?
by on Wed 21st Dec 2005 09:42 in reply to "Curious priorities?"
Member since:

So OOo2 is identified as one of their biggest challenges for the desktop due to it's design, and they're relying on Sun to improve it because they don't have the resources to justify heavy development on their end.

Fair enough.

But seems to me that investing in improving OOo2 would do far more to help them advance linux as a business desktop than creating an OpenGL based desktop environment. I have to assume they've got more than one or two guys working it if it's really going to fly without external testing and development, even in pre-Alpha stage.


Good points, but the problem is that the OO.org codebase is so massive, so convoluted, so packed with cruft from possibly as far back as the late 80s that it's next to impossible to get anyone to work on it - outside of Sun.

Look at it this way. Novell hires and engineer or assigns one of their engineers to start working on OO. They take a couple months (or longer) to get up to the speed on the codebase and then start submitting patches. But hold on. This guy works for Novell and these Sun guys maybe aren't so thrilled some Novell guy bogarting his way into the scene. Politics is everywhere and it's recognized, but rarely discussed except by developers.

XGL is one of those sexy things that Novell can control development on. Just like Trolltech controls Qt and RedHat is de-facto controller of Gnome.

People need to stop acting like there's some kumbaya, utopia in open source development.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: Curious priorities?
by segedunum on Wed 21st Dec 2005 10:13 in reply to "Curious priorities?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

That was a damn hilarious read actually, and shows how clueless they still are:

Email call center workers wanted good music software, too. So we worked on that; see Banshee.

Yer, it's called Amarok and it didn't need Novell to spend money and time on creating a new open source project.

And this I find particularly funny:

Q. What's stopping Novell from putting more engineers on OOo? A. We have a few already. It's money, really. If we could have a revenue strea from it that'd help.

ROTFL. Well, that just tells me that Open Office is not viable as a project to do what Novell wants it to do. Either they get more companies outside of themselves and Sun to help improve it or it's tough luck I'm afraid.

WMV/WMA/MMS support needed! Real's been great, maybe they can help. If Linux can't play these, people will think it's a cheap piece of crap.

Errr, well no. That support is ultimately down to Microsoft. The way you get around it is by really pushing support for open media formats like ogg. They should concentrate on getting solid MP3 support first, because that is something that is feasible to do.

I shake my heads at these people who are supposedly fashioning desktop Linux's future.

Edited 2005-12-21 10:24

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Curious priorities?
by thebluesgnr on Wed 21st Dec 2005 18:16 in reply to "RE: Curious priorities?"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

"Yer, it's called Amarok and it didn't need Novell to spend money and time on creating a new open source project."

I use Banshee and I'm very glad they decided to do it. Amarok is no Banshee. ;)
(that may be a good thing in your opinion, of course. I'm just saying that, to me, Amarok doesn't come close).

Reply Parent Score: 1