Linked by Eugenia Loli-Queru on Tue 10th Jan 2006 23:42 UTC, submitted by ishmal
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "This article fairly eloquently expounds some of the reasons why Linux's job is not to become increasingly Windows-like, nor is it Open Source's duty to merely provide free duplicates of every Windows-user's favorite program. The issue has never been anything about Elite Snob vs. Concerned Newbie. It is simply a misunderstanding of what the Linux and the Open Source world is all about. Linux is not about repeating Windows with its features and flaws. It is an opportunity to experiment with new and wonderful alternatives", says OSNews reader Bob Jamison.
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RE[2]: Long winded rant...
by Tuishimi on Wed 11th Jan 2006 15:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Long winded rant..."
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Logic is not subjective. Did you not take a logic class in college. Performs well means "Is it supposed to color the screen red in 10 seconds? Does it? It does! Good, then it peforms well". You are applying your own bias to my argument.

If there is an application on one platform that does something, and does not exist on another platform, but would be VALUABLE on the other platform then it makes perfect sense to want that feature.

How do you think operating systems mature? Do you think everything you have on your OS just "came with it?" No. Operating systems have historically shared ideas across platforms as well as software.

You would be wrong to say that this is not so or to imply that it is wrong.

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RE[3]: Long winded rant...
by gilboa on Wed 11th Jan 2006 15:58 in reply to "RE[2]: Long winded rant..."
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

"Logic is not subjective. Did you not take a logic class in college. Performs well means "Is it supposed to color the screen red in 10 seconds? Does it? It does! Good, then it peforms well". You are applying your own bias to my argument."

I fail to see your point.
In Windows, in-order to change the IP address, I:
Control Panet -> Network Connections -> Select Interface -> Properties -> TCP/IP -> Set IP, Mask -> OK.
This look logical for you.

In Linux, I:
ifconfig eth0 192.168.10.1 netmask 255.255.255.0
This look logical to me.

If there is an application on one platform that does something, and does not exist on another platform, but would be VALUABLE on the other platform then it makes perfect sense to want that feature.

But he wasn't talking about missing software. If you need a certain software that isn't present in Linux (and cannot run using WINE), stick to Windows. Period.
We are talking about missing features / different approach to configuration / GUI /etc.

How do you think operating systems mature? Do you think everything you have on your OS just "came with it?" No. Operating systems have historically shared ideas across platforms as well as software.
You would be wrong to say that this is not so or to imply that it is wrong.


True... but I still fail to see your point.

I helped dozens of Windows users switch to Linux. (I'm now helping my own development team switch to development in Linux)
The difference between the ones that succeeded in switching and the ones that didn't is simple:
If they come with an open mind, really to learn Linux from scratch, they are now using Linux.
If they wanted Linux to be a Windows replacement, they failed.
It's as simple as that.

If Windows works for you and you are unwilling to start from scratch, don't bother trying Linux.

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RE[4]: Long winded rant...
by Tuishimi on Wed 11th Jan 2006 16:20 in reply to "RE[3]: Long winded rant..."
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I guess I should reread the article. In my mind, features and software are nearly inseparable. People complaining that the network panel isn't in the right place, well, that's a different story from someone saying "I need to be able to connect to my windows share".

Also...

I cannot argue with that!

VVVVVVVVV
The difference between the ones that succeeded in switching and the ones that didn't is simple:
If they come with an open mind, really to learn Linux from scratch, they are now using Linux.
If they wanted Linux to be a Windows replacement, they failed.
^^^^^^^^^^

Still feels a lot like a rant to me, tho'. But I guess he is referring to people who just complain without reason and don't WANT to learn anything new.

THe OS's I learned to use in order where VMS, DOS, Mac OS, Windows, Unix, BeOS, Mac OS (again ;) , Linux, BSD. This over a span of (wow) 22 years. I guess I enjoy the idiosyncrasies of each OS. :/ Altho' I have to admit from time to time I wish a nifty utility that makes my life easier would be available on all the platforms I CURRENTLY use... (like TortoiseCVS - that's so cool ;)

Mike

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RE[4]: Long winded rant...
by Deletomn on Wed 11th Jan 2006 18:40 in reply to "RE[3]: Long winded rant..."
Deletomn Member since:
2005-07-06

With your example of changing your ip address. The answer of which is more logical is actually a little different than how you make it sound...

gilboa: In Windows, in-order to change the IP address, I:
Control Panet -> Network Connections -> Select Interface -> Properties -> TCP/IP -> Set IP, Mask -> OK.
This look logical for you.

In Linux, I:
ifconfig eth0 192.168.10.1 netmask 255.255.255.0
This look logical to me.


ifconfig would only be logical to you if you have it memorized. Otherwise you would never think of it. You would be forced to look it up. (In fact, if I was thinking of a command for configuring my ip address, I would sooner pop up with ipconfig, than ifconfig. Simply because we are talking about an ip address, not an "if" address.)

With the Windows example, all you'd need to have memorized is that Control Panel has your settings and that IP address has something to do with networks. (All very basic and general concepts.) Then you could easily stumble about and find it in just a few moments (at worst) via simple trial and error. No documentation or help required.

In fact... This is really the key difference between how to do things with different OSs (or other pieces of software)... Some are MORE specific to an OS or require more memorization, more looking of things up, etc... Than the equivalent on another OS, which is actually more general. (I'm not saying that Windows is always better in this regard)

If it is harder to make things work without prior memorization or documentation then it is substantially harder for new users (or at least users who are unfamiliar with the feature, I state this, because you can use an OS for many years and suddenly find you need to do something you haven't done before). If it requires more mouse clicks, keyboard strokes, or has less flexibility, then (generally) its harder for more experienced users.

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