Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 17th Jan 2006 22:10 UTC, submitted by James Dickens
Oracle and SUN Someone has found the manual to Sun's Ultra 40 - which hasn't even been announced yet. The machine clearly is the bigger brother of the Ultra 20. It apparently sports two AMD Opteron processors (single or dualcore; 2.0Ghz or faster; 1MB cache), eight PC3200 DIMM slots (2GB per DIMM), and more. It will come pre-loaded with Solaris 10 (obviously) but RedHat/SUSE Linux Enterprise/Windows are also supported, in both 32bit and 64bit.
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RE[5]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 17:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Because they are giving the customers what they have been asking for?

Customers aren't asking for it. You give your customers a line of workstations (or servers) that are clear and related to each other. You don't muck about by offering what 'you think' customers want because you really want them to be using SPARC.

Because if they sell Opterons as well as SPARC they sell more machines and make more money?

In what way? What makes Opterons outsell SPARC? And if it's outselling SPARC then sell Opterons exclusively. It's obviously a selling point. All you've told me there is that Opterons outsell SPARC.

Because the different CPUs have different strengths and are useful in different situations?

Not on workstations, as I've pointed out. SPARC is a high-end processor, and that's its only domain now. If Sun want to sell it as a workstation and convince customers then they need to make it clear to customers what they are selling. If customers are scratching their heads about what you sell, and you are confusing them with talk about 'choice' and the non-existent 'different strengths', then they simply go elsewhere.

Because you want to be able to run Windows and Redhat and Solaris all on the same box?

That's a selling point for selling Opterons (and a weak one at that considering Sun want you to use Solaris), so what's the point of SPARC?

Look, we all know that Sun don't really want to sell anything that doesn't have SPARC in it, so they've got one of two options. Commit totally to what is actually selling (Opterons), or make SPARC an actual viable option on workstations, or many servers, and stick with it. The market has spoken on that front, and that is 'what customers want'.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Sun is even busier
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Sun is even busier"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Customers aren't asking for it. You give your customers a line of workstations (or servers) that are clear and related to each other. You don't muck about by offering what 'you think' customers want because you really want them to be using SPARC.

Don't talk nonsense. Just skim the threads here when the Ultra 20 got released-- many people were asking for a SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC? Reliability. I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

Of course Sun wants to sell SPARC machines. But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing (they even hired a world-famous server designer to design Opteron servers), multiple Opteron product lines, JUST, to, after months and months, release one SPARC line of workstations?

Go fool yourself, Segedendum. The rest of us ain't buying it.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by rhavyn on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:03 in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't talk nonsense. Just skim the threads here when the Ultra 20 got released-- many people were asking for a SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC? Reliability. I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

So are you saying that Sun's Opteron systems aren't solid as a rock? Because if it's not that then it sounds like your just like the poor MIPS guys who wish they could go back to the good old days when people cared about MIPS and SGI. And if it is that they aren't solid as a rock, why is anyone encouraging people to buy shoddy Opteron hardware from Sun?

Of course Sun wants to sell SPARC machines. But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing (they even hired a world-famous server designer to design Opteron servers), multiple Opteron product lines, JUST, to, after months and months, release one SPARC line of workstations?

You make it sound like Sun isn't completely schizo. After watching them for the past 5 years, however, I could completely believe that they'd do backflips to sell Opterons today and then stop selling them and go all Sparc tomorrow. And then three months later recant and sell Opterons again but have their executives bad mouth Opterons every time they speak. That's entirely consistent with their Solaris x86 strategy, their Linux strategy and their support for open source. Why not make it their hardware strategy too?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:41 in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

SPARC-based workstation from Sun, simply because many, including myself, have a SPARC workstation that badly needs replacing (my aging Ultra 5). Now, for what do I use an UltraSPARC?

And how many of you are there?

I want UltraSPARC workstations from Sun because they do not die. They do not break. They are as solid as a rock.

Good for you. The vast majority of Sun's new customers do not now buy SPARC though.

But do you really think they would go through ALL the trouble of setting up, designing

Done it before.

Go fool yourself, Segedendum. The rest of us ain't buying it.

It's alright. I know you don't understand this, and neither do Sun.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[6]: Sun is even busier
by Phillip.Fayers on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Sun is even busier"
Phillip.Fayers Member since:
2005-12-14

Look, we all know that Sun don't really want to sell anything that doesn't have SPARC in it,

They bought a company that designed Opteron servers then proceeded to sell them at a market competitive price. They negotiated with AMD to get a special Sun version of the AMD CPUs manufactured. Sounds like a company who wants to sell something which isn't SPARC.

so they've got one of two options. Commit totally to what is actually selling (Opterons), or make SPARC an actual viable option on workstations, or many servers, and stick with it.

Or option 3. Sell Opteron and SPARC systems, with both being viable options.

The market has spoken on that front, and that is 'what customers want'.

I think the market is speaking by buying both SPARC and Opteron systems from Sun.

Sun may be looking to dump SPARC altogether, but I doubt it. Even if they were they wouldn't do it until Opteron (or some other chip) could replace their high end servers which won't happen for some time.

I lament the almost lack of decent, cheap SPARC workstations from Sun, I think it harms their business becuase people grow up with Linux on x86 instead. Sun have, finally, decided that they ought to be making some money from the huge x86 market. I'm glad they did.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 18th Jan 2006 18:11 in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Sun may be looking to dump SPARC altogether, but I doubt it. Even if they were they wouldn't do it until Opteron (or some other chip) could replace their high end servers which won't happen for some time.

They won't for at least another ten years. They just released the Niagara 8-core SPARC chips, and Niagara II is in the pipeline and due early 2007.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Sun is even busier
by segedunum on Wed 18th Jan 2006 22:44 in reply to "RE[6]: Sun is even busier"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

They negotiated with AMD to get a special Sun version of the AMD CPUs manufactured. Sounds like a company who wants to sell something which isn't SPARC.

It's happened before.

Or option 3. Sell Opteron and SPARC systems, with both being viable options.

There is no option 3. Customers want to know what you're selling.

I think the market is speaking by buying both SPARC and Opteron systems from Sun.

They are not buying both SPARC and Opteron. Just about all of Sun's new customers, where the new business is to be found, buy Opteron.

I lament the almost lack of decent, cheap SPARC workstations from Sun

That's exactly what they should have done.

Reply Parent Score: 1