Linked by on Wed 1st Feb 2006 19:53 UTC
Novell and Ximian A demonstration of the next release of Novell's Linux for desktops drew cheers and applause Wednesday, although the final version of the software is not expected for some months. Nat Friedman, the company's vice president of Linux desktop engineering, showed Novell Linux Desktop 10 playing videos and MP3 music files, and exchanging music and photos with an iPod and a digital camera, in a keynote presentation at the Solutions Linux conference and trade show on the outskirts of Paris.
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RE[3]: segedenum
by superstoned on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 10:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: segedenum"
superstoned
Member since:
2005-07-07

now you're here, i'd like to ask a question ;)

for an outside observer (i'm not actively involved in gnome) it looks like all this money is poured into gnome, while it barely can keep up with KDE - would it not be far more efficient to put money on KDE? also considdering Red Hat is and has been throwing money on gnome, too - it would set Novell apart from the competition. and many ex-windows users seem to prefer KDE anyway...

just on technical merits, KDE seems ahead - isn't it better to build on stone than on sand?

i might be mistaken, but it looks like KDE 4 is gonna leave gnome far far behind anyway, why not go for the winning team?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: segedenum
by thebluesgnr on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 14:35 in reply to "RE[3]: segedenum"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

I'm not Miguel, but I'd like to point out some things to you.

First of all, you mention "all this money is poured into gnome", and that's not exactly what happens. The main reason distributors like Novell and Red Hat hire people to work on a piece of software (GNOME, X, Linux, GCC, Glibc, binutils, OpenOffice, etc) is that it gives them a better position to support that software. They can more easily fix a problem, and they can more easily add a feature that their customers request.

You then mention "while it barely can keep up with KDE", which is not a fact (flamebait actually, but we're way past that in this thread). Where can GNOME not keep up with KDE? Accessibility? Usability?

"and many ex-windows users seem to prefer KDE anyway..."

Maybe it's because it' more similar to Windows, heh? The thing is, that may not be the best way to sell a product that competes with Windows. Maybe Novell wants their customers to feel like they're using an exciting different system when they switch to their products, and not like they're using a system that reminds them of Windows. Of course it's important that Windows users will be able to use the software without a lot of problems, and that's why these companies do usability testing with their products.

"just on technical merits, KDE seems ahead"

We covered that already, but I'll mention another thing you seem to be forgetting.
Novell offers Mono and Gtk# with their products, which makes it easier for them to sell them to companies that have software written in .NET; these companies can more easily port their software to GNU/Linux. Novell could also have developed Mono/Qt#, but then their customers would have to pay license fees to Qt, making the Novell offer less interesting. This could even possibly kill the advantage of costs of GNU/Linux compared to Windows.

"i might be mistaken, but it looks like KDE 4 is gonna leave gnome far far behind anyway,"

There's another mistake, indeed. While KDE 4 is being developed and may not be released for another year, GNOME is getting a new release every 6 months with new features and bug fixes. Is there a particular, factual, reason you're so convinced KDE 4 is going to be that much better?

And another thing...
"also considdering Red Hat is and has been throwing money on gnome, too - it would set Novell apart from the competition. "

You're also forgetting Sun. For example, if it wasn't for them GNOME would not be accessible, which you may or may not know is pretty important for Novell and Red Hat too (out of the box GNOME is more accessible than even Windows). Novell would have to duplicate all the work done by Sun and Red Hat if they went with KDE, and for what? They want to be ahead of Microsoft, not Red Hat. The market is a lot bigger for them there.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: segedenum
by superstoned on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 19:43 in reply to "RE[4]: segedenum"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

ok, i stand corrected on the 'pouring money in Gnome'. tough i still wonder who pays the guy's salary doing 'administration' for gnome...


" You then mention "while it barely can keep up with KDE", which is not a fact (flamebait actually, but we're way past that in this thread). Where can GNOME not keep up with KDE? Accessibility? Usability?"
no, those two are gnome's area's. but there is more under the sun than having a nicely laid out application and less features. things like KIOSK features and ACL support, in KDE but not in Gnome. just to name 2 things. or good cross-app communication (dcop. dbus might replace it as it is already almost as good and can also talk to the system, but for now, KDE has a clear edge on this one - full scripting of almost all apps and their possibilities from the command line or other applications). Kparts. and integration of Gnome apps with GTK-Qt theme engine (you can better run Gnome apps in KDE than the opposite, speed and look&feel wise).

and i think a company rather pays for Qt and its support and have a better toolkit than using GTK. by the way, if they don't sell their software, they don't have to pay at all, so why care?

Gnome IS more easy and accessible compared to windows, and on some points even to Mac OS X, but so is KDE, despite some apps having more icons. a lot of work has been put in making many config dialogues easier, and quite some apps got more clever. yes, a lot low hanging fruit is still out there, but on the other hand - gnome has some cathing up to do in areas like cd burning and music playing. and KPDF kicks ass, too. and don't forget the education apps from KDE, they surpass the gnome ones by far.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: segedenum
by Lumbergh on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 20:11 in reply to "RE[3]: segedenum"
Lumbergh Member since:
2005-06-29

for an outside observer (i'm not actively involved in gnome) it looks like all this money is poured into gnome, while it barely can keep up with KDE - would it not be far more efficient to put money on KDE? also considdering Red Hat is and has been throwing money on gnome, too - it would set Novell apart from the competition. and many ex-windows users seem to prefer KDE anyway...

just on technical merits, KDE seems ahead - isn't it better to build on stone than on sand?

i might be mistaken, but it looks like KDE 4 is gonna leave gnome far far behind anyway, why not go for the winning team?


Uhmm..because Trolltech own Qt, like has been discussed a thousands times before.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: segedenum
by superstoned on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 20:18 in reply to "RE[4]: segedenum"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

do your homework - if you want free software for the freedom, you prefer Qt cuz it is GPL (and if you want to create proprietary software with it, you have to pay). and if you're a company, you rather pay for a good tool + support.

anyway, this has indeed been discussed, but after 1998 new things have happened. i think its time for you to read up since then.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: segedenum
by Mitarai on Thu 2nd Feb 2006 20:32 in reply to "RE[4]: segedenum"
Mitarai Member since:
2005-07-28

Uhmm..because Trolltech own Qt, like has been discussed a thousands times before.

I never had that problem with GTK or even Microsoft, I can do it for free.

Reply Parent Score: 1