Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Feb 2006 18:37 UTC, submitted by Fusion
X11, Window Managers "Novell is announcing its contribution of the Xgl graphics subsystem and the 'Compiz' compositing manager to the X.org project. These enhancements open up a whole world of hardware acceleration, fancy animation, separating hardware resolution from software resolution, and more. As a result, Linux desktops will become more usable, end-user productivity will increase, and Linux is firmly positioned at the forefront of client computing technology." Videos and screenshots are included in the press release. And on a related note, Dan Winship of Novell has explained on gnome-desktop-devel why Novell worked on all this behind closed doors-- and this also applies to the striking similarity between Novell's mockups from December and Nat Friedman's videos. The changes made to GNOME will all be released back.
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Enterprise desktop?
by michi on Tue 7th Feb 2006 21:31 UTC
michi
Member since:
2006-02-04

As far as I understand, NLD 10 is an enterprise desktop. Why does an enterprise desktop actually need fancy 3D effects? As a long time linux desktop user I am glad that Novell is contributing to XGL, but I don't really see how this is useful for an enterprise desktop.

I am also a KDE user myself and I am not very happy that Novell bought one of the major KDE based distros and is no degrading KDE to a second class citizen. I think this is a mistake. KDE was really what made SUSE special and now Novell turns it into just another GNOME distro. There is no real reason anymore to chose NLD/SUSE over Redhat/Fedora or Ubuntu.

And I also think it is quite unfortunate that Nat Friedmann (and to a lesser extend Miguel de Icaza) are anti-KDE (at least that is my impression). I have seen lots of former SUSE (KDE) users in forums complaining about them. This splits the community. But for the success of Linux on the desktop, GNOME and KDE have to cooperate. People will not use Linux on the desktop because of some fancy graphical effects. In the end applications matter and it is a matter of fact that some of the best Linux applications are KDE/Qt applications like k3b, scribus, amorok. Of course one can try to recreate them using Gnome/gtk, but this is a total waste of resources which could be used much better in other areas. In my opinion it is absolutely necessary to integrate KDE/Qt apps in GNOME as good as possible (and of course Gnome/gtk apps into KDE), because a desktop with a mixed set of applications (say firefox, oo, k3b, amorok, inkscape, gimp, krita) will be superior to a pure KDE/Gnome desktop. KDE applications in Gnome should use the Gnome theme and the Gnome file selector (for example) and the other way round. And in this respect it is really bad that many KDE users/developers actually have the impression that Nat Friedmann and Miguel de Icaza want to harm KDE. I think both should really try to give KDE people the impression that this is not the case. Because in the long run it will hurt linux on the desktop if there is not more corporation between Gnome and KDE.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Enterprise desktop?
by segedunum on Tue 7th Feb 2006 22:01 in reply to "Enterprise desktop?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

As far as I understand, NLD 10 is an enterprise desktop. Why does an enterprise desktop actually need fancy 3D effects?

Well, it's nice that it's happening. However, why they want to put that kind of effort into this for an enterprise (I laugh every time I hear that word) desktop is anyone's guess. Maybe they're trying to convince Novell's own employees to use Gnome, or even just desktop Linux period? Who knows? That's the only reason I can think of. Get people useing desktop Linux by allowing them to plug their iPod in at work and manage their photo collection. Not that you should be doing that at work of course, but I've been doing that (along with Suse Linux and other KDE users - maybe even Novell employees) with Digikam, Amarok and an iPod slave for months. Feel free to come and knock me out any time Nat ;-).

I am also a KDE user myself and I am not very happy that Novell bought one of the major KDE based distros and is no degrading KDE to a second class citizen. I think this is a mistake.

Hmmm. You're believing far too much of the bullshit. The most widely used Novell distribution is still Suse Linux and openSUSE, and the desktop everyone uses there is still KDE. The NLD has a userbase that pales in comparison to Suse Linux, Ubuntu and probably distributions like Linspire as well.

People will not use Linux on the desktop because of some fancy graphical effects. In the end applications matter...

Well spotted. From the looks of things that's about all they have though, unfortunately :-).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Enterprise desktop?
by mOrPhie on Tue 7th Feb 2006 22:16 in reply to "Enterprise desktop?"
mOrPhie Member since:
2006-01-02

As far as I understand, NLD 10 is an enterprise desktop. Why does an enterprise desktop actually need fancy 3D effects? As a long time linux desktop user I am glad that Novell is contributing to XGL, but I don't really see how this is useful for an enterprise desktop.

The most important thing about this is responsiveness. I aggree with you that an enterprise desktop doesn't need wobbly windows, but the responsiveness is amazing. A major glitch in X-Desktops where the slowness of it, which sometimes frustrated people. With Xgl, this is history and the X-desktop is faster than ever before. Using hardware for rendering the desktop should have been done looong before now.

Edited 2006-02-07 22:16

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Enterprise desktop?
by Howie S on Wed 8th Feb 2006 01:57 in reply to "RE: Enterprise desktop?"
Howie S Member since:
2005-07-14

Using hardware for rendering the desktop should have been done looong before now.

I agree.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Enterprise desktop?
by siki_miki on Thu 9th Feb 2006 15:39 in reply to "RE: Enterprise desktop?"
siki_miki Member since:
2006-01-17

It wasn't possible because software just wasn't there (hardware WAS, almost 5 years ago). Linux 3D drivers (very bad except Nvidia in recent years), lack of needed OpenGL extensions for speedup, Xfree86 stagnation...it is good to have all that finally behind.

Xgl is just about to go mainstream, with great push from Novell which endorsed it (a very wise choice IMO). They do it primarily because of Vista and to kill off Sun's and RedHat's initiatives.

Luminocity is now certainly dead, while Looking Glass will remain a niche experimental GUI. Eventually Gnome and KDE will pick up some good stuff from LG and slowly advance to hybrid 2D-3D desktop with ability to behave (configurably) in both ways.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Enterprise desktop?
by thebluesgnr on Tue 7th Feb 2006 22:36 in reply to "Enterprise desktop?"
thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

I just realized I don't agree with most of the points you made in your post. ;)

1) Enterprise also includes desktops, so improving the desktop environment is part of it. The fancy effects are not there so desktop consumers will be impressed by the software; these effects actually help making the software easier to use. XGL is also faster than a normal X server, with or without the pretty plugins, so it makes the Novell products more interesting to their customers.

2) The products from Novell that will be focusing on GNOME are not the ones you care about (by "you" I mean anyone who actually knows what KDE and GNOME are). What you care about is SUSE Linux which is probably even better for KDE users now than it was before. For one OpenSUSE was created; SuSE wasn't free before (YaST was proprietary software, relicensed under the GPL after Novell bought it).

3) You can't say that Miguel and Nat are anti-KDE based on comments you read from people that claim to be KDE users (I'm not saying KDE developers on purpose). Maybe this feeling is because people have the (wrong) idea that SUSE and OpenSUSE will become GNOME-centric products, when in fact that's not true. They equally support both environments.

Regarding the applications you mentioned, GNOME (and Novell) are just picking a different approach, not recreating KDE apps with GNOME libraries. For example, if you want to create a CD with files under GNOME (a "data" CD) you do it from the file manager. If you want to create a music CD ("audio" CD) you do it from your music library (Banshee in the NLD). This is a different approach and some people will prefer it.

Reply Parent Score: 4