Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 8th Feb 2006 22:42 UTC, submitted by danwarne
Mac OS X "The Unofficial Apple Weblog has posted a short story on the top five mistakes made by new Mac users. It includes closing an application window and thinking it has quit, downloading software and then running it from the disk image (runs slowly, can't eject disk image), and Windows .exe files littered around the desktop after they've tried to download software and install it. The comments attached to the article are entertaining, and pick up many other common mistakes. Here's a precise list of things that TUAW and its users said in comments, and a few of my own."
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RE: Usability
by Shane on Thu 9th Feb 2006 02:21 UTC in reply to "Usability"
Shane
Member since:
2005-07-06

Why not? The fact that it's different doesn't make it retarded. Here's why it makes sense:

When navigating through a document, right arrow key will move the cursor one character to the right. Option+right arrow will move one word to the right. Command+right arrow moves to the end of that line. Left arrow combinations work in a similar way.

Makes sense now doesn't it? I actually find it faster to move around this way now. Since I'm pressing the arrow keys anyway, adding a modifier is fast. There's no need to hunt for the home and end buttons, especially on a laptop keyboard.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Usability
by JustThinkIt on Thu 9th Feb 2006 04:13 in reply to "RE: Usability"
JustThinkIt Member since:
2005-09-04

The fact that it's different doesn't make it retarded. Here's why it makes sense: When navigating through a document, right arrow key will move the cursor one character to the right. Option+right arrow will move one word to the right. Command+right arrow moves to the end of that line. Left arrow combinations work in a similar way. Makes sense now doesn't it?

Ah, no it doesn't make sense. Given that computers originated as line-oriented devices, home and end keys have (or should have) obvious functions relating to the line one is on. Infinitely arrogant Jobs, as mentioned above, insults his users (one mouse button forever) yet then expects them to know NON OBVIOUS shortcut keys (or be taught such keys by equally arrogant Mac fanatics).

Those would be acceptable "accelerator" keys if they were in addition to home/end, control-home/control-end. Gates clearly understands the need for multiple ways of doing things. Jobs clearly understands how to be an expletive.

The enter versus return key decision is another bizarre Macism. Maybe the fanatics ship each Mac with a special camera so they can watch the "idiots" press the wrong key. Ditto the two delete keys that have different functions.

The Mac faithful always always always rave about their product -- it so great, so fast, so easy to use everyone should have one -- yet the glaring defects, deficiencies and lies (e.g. Macs are always "the world's fastest computers", yet now that they have come to intel they are the fastest intel computers and many times faster than those Macs....puhlease) continue for DECADES.

The resize corner (let's call it the penalty box) is a gross defect. I like being able to resize a window by the corner/edge I choose because otherwise I have to resize then move repeatedly to get it right where I want it. If you put the window where you want it, then resizing in Windows is a single click & drag operation -- it is impossible to be more efficient than that.

It is quite amusing that the writer of this article calls these "new user mistakes" when at least half a dozen are glaring Apple design mistakes and another half a dozen are reasonable assumptions by Windows users (i.e. the vast majority of ALL users).

The Mac "apple" key is unleveraged, it doesn't do "something else". This is by no means a new user mistake. The apple key _could_ do something else, but it appears to be easier to attack "new users" (i.e. anyone not fully brainwashed by Apple)

The Mac doesn't let you maximize a window, yet it puts the menus at the top of the screen! That is truly a bizarre pair of decisions. "We control your window display _and_ we want you to dart your eyes away from your window and back again FOREVER! {diabolical laugh}"

Encouraging/expecting users of any stripe to "hide" applications is stupid. A computer is an information appliance, it is meant to present information. Hiding is for useless Vista toolbars.

I once had to work on a Power Mac that was littered with downloads on the desktop -- how truly ugly. No one knew how to change/edit non-functioning menu items either. Love that ease of use!

But my personal favorite is either (1) blaming new user inability to work with documents on a Windows-centric mentality instead of blaming those stupid menus at the top...that change when you change apps; or (2) a folder copy wiping out everything already there, instead of merging with it. Can't OSX be prosecuted in this case for "doing harm"?

Floyd
http://www.just-think-it.com

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Usability
by ApproachingZero on Thu 9th Feb 2006 04:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Usability"
ApproachingZero Member since:
2005-11-10

>>Infinitely arrogant Jobs, as mentioned above, insults his users (one mouse button forever)

GOD WILL YOU GUYS QUIT POSTING THIS LIE? Click this link and educate yourselves a little, okay?

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Usability
by cilcoder on Thu 9th Feb 2006 05:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Usability"
cilcoder Member since:
2005-07-06

The home and end buttons don't say anything about lines on them. I will admit that it takes some getting used to after to using other OSes but it's just different not retarded. As for computers originally being line based and all that.. Why do they have a page up and page down button then?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Usability
by Shane on Thu 9th Feb 2006 06:05 in reply to "RE[2]: Usability"
Shane Member since:
2005-07-06

I am not going to engage in a point-by-point rebuttal of your post. I am not interested in defending the way Macs and OS X behave, because, like for any other operating systems, the UI decisions in OS X are somewhat arbitrary. They entirely depend on your familiarity with the conventions chosen.

I will instead try to address the root cause of your complaints. You can either approach anything new with an open mind and work with it, or you can adopt the attitude that it sucks because it does not work like some other thing that you have grown used to.

[Edit: typo]

Edited 2006-02-09 06:21

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Usability
by lunddal on Thu 9th Feb 2006 10:12 in reply to "RE[2]: Usability"
lunddal Member since:
2006-02-09

"Ah, no it doesn't make sense. Given that computers originated as line-oriented devices, home and end keys have (or should have) obvious functions relating to the line one is on."

Hmm, the keys are labeled with arrows pointing to the top left corner and the bottom right corner. If they were supposed to go the start or end of a line they would have horisontal arrows.


"The enter versus return key decision is another bizarre Macism. Maybe the fanatics ship each Mac with a special camera so they can watch the "idiots" press the wrong key. Ditto the two delete keys that have different functions. "

In 99,99% of applications, the two keys are exactly the same.

I don't know what a US keyboard looks like, but on international keyboards there is only one key labeled delete - and that's the forward delete key which also has the forward delete symbol on it.


"The Mac faithful always always always rave about their product -- it so great, so fast, so easy to use everyone should have one -- yet the glaring defects, deficiencies and lies (e.g. Macs are always "the world's fastest computers", yet now that they have come to intel they are the fastest intel computers and many times faster than those Macs....puhlease) continue for DECADES. "

And Microsoft isn't "lying" in ther ads? It's called marketing and it's all a big lie.


"The Mac doesn't let you maximize a window, yet it puts the menus at the top of the screen! That is truly a bizarre pair of decisions. "We control your window display _and_ we want you to dart your eyes away from your window and back again FOREVER! {diabolical laugh}" "

It's called Fitt's Law - read up on it.

In many ways the Windows UI is different from Mac OS' just to be different - and the result is a horrible UI screaming "carpal syndrome".


"Encouraging/expecting users of any stripe to "hide" applications is stupid. A computer is an information appliance, it is meant to present information. Hiding is for useless Vista toolbars. "

Why is it stupid? I don't need to look at my e-mail app all the time. And since most Windows users work in one app at a time by going full screen, they are basically hiding their app anyway.


"I once had to work on a Power Mac that was littered with downloads on the desktop -- how truly ugly."

Change it then. Most Windows users litter their desktops too.


"No one knew how to change/edit non-functioning menu items either."

Huh?


"But my personal favorite is either (1) blaming new user inability to work with documents on a Windows-centric mentality instead of blaming those stupid menus at the top..."

But it's a new Windows user's fault if he can't work with the documents in Mac-centric way? Jeez!!

Just because something is different from Windows doesn't make it retarded or stupid - especially not since the Mac way of doing precedes the Windows way.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Usability
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 9th Feb 2006 16:50 in reply to "RE[2]: Usability"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Given that computers originated as line-oriented devices, home and end keys have (or should have) obvious functions relating to the line one is on. Infinitely arrogant Jobs, as mentioned above, insults his users (one mouse button forever) yet then expects them to know NON OBVIOUS shortcut keys (or be taught such keys by equally arrogant Mac fanatics).

The fault in your point is that on a Mac keyboard, there are no home and end keys. There are two keys that have an arrow pointing down-right and top-left, but no home or end keys. Don't go making stuff up now, please.

The enter versus return key decision is another bizarre Macism. Maybe the fanatics ship each Mac with a special camera so they can watch the "idiots" press the wrong key. Ditto the two delete keys that have different functions.

Why is it stupid? Is it stupid because the keys don't behave the same as on your ps/2 keyboard? You see, the Mac keyboard and it's functions happen to be quite old, and just like the ps/2 keyboard, it evolved.

Would you call a German keyboard stupid because it says 'steuerung' instead of 'control'?

The resize corner (let's call it the penalty box) is a gross defect. I like being able to resize a window by the corner/edge I choose because otherwise I have to resize then move repeatedly to get it right where I want it. If you put the window where you want it, then resizing in Windows is a single click & drag operation -- it is impossible to be more efficient than that.

It's stupid just because it's different? I come from a BeOS world, and I am greatly pleased by the resize corner. Same as doubleclicking on a titlebar minimizes the window (like BeOS) instead of the utterly useless Windows maximize.

It is quite amusing that the writer of this article calls these "new user mistakes" when at least half a dozen are glaring Apple design mistakes and another half a dozen are reasonable assumptions by Windows users (i.e. the vast majority of ALL users).

Nonsense. Again, the Mac has been like this for ages-- in fact, the MacOS is older than Windows. So you could also say that Windows is doing everything wrong.

The Mac "apple" key is unleveraged, it doesn't do "something else". This is by no means a new user mistake. The apple key _could_ do something else, but it appears to be easier to attack "new users" (i.e. anyone not fully brainwashed by Apple)

The Apple key is the shortcut key. The end. Just because Windows keyboards have that stupid Windows key which always gets in the way due to accidental pressing, doesn't mean the rest of the world should adapt to this utterly useless key either.

The Mac doesn't let you maximize a window, yet it puts the menus at the top of the screen! That is truly a bizarre pair of decisions. "We control your window display _and_ we want you to dart your eyes away from your window and back again FOREVER! {diabolical laugh}"

Right. Get some fresh air.

Encouraging/expecting users of any stripe to "hide" applications is stupid. A computer is an information appliance, it is meant to present information. Hiding is for useless Vista toolbars.

Really, you are Windows-centric and everything else must be stupid just because you are not used to it. I assume you find all other languages than English stupid; all countries other than the US stupid, etc., etc., etc.

I once had to work on a Power Mac that was littered with downloads on the desktop -- how truly ugly. No one knew how to change/edit non-functioning menu items either. Love that ease of use!

"Once"? And yet you are commenting on difficult and complicated things like usability? Jesus, I just spent a good 5 minutes replying to someone criticizing a Mac after using it 'once'.

Can you please specify that at the beginning of your post next time?

Reply Parent Score: 5