Yesterday morning on the openSUSE-announce list, Andreas Jaeger declared openSUSE beta5 the gold master for openSUSE 10.2. In his words “CD production is starting now and I hope to see some shiny green
openSUSE 10.2 boxes on the shelves before Christmas.“
OpenSUSE 10.2 RC5 Declared Gold
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i don’t think il get this one, concidering the MS/Novel deal.
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SO sad… I will get it. Does the deal directly affect me as an end user? NO. So why care?
>> sad… I will get it. Does the deal directly affect me as an end user? NO. So why care?
Why? in Novells view, we (Linux users) are criminals. They belive it so bad, they are paying for Microsoft not to sue their customers.
Does it affect me directly? no.
Do i care? yes.
No, its called making a deal.
Microsoft wanted to ensure their patents were protected… Novell wanted Windows and SUSE to be able to play nicely together.
You have to give and take.
Corporations, the people actually paying money, wanted such deals… so it was done.
>>No, its called making a deal. <<
No, it’s called trying to claim exclusive rights to a public resouce. It’s as if I put my own toll booth on the Brooklyn bridge, or charged you tuition to send your children to public school.
Caldera and Sun, both tried to pull the same scam. They tried to say that only *their* linux was legal. In both cases they said that just about the same time they got big money from msft.
It’s not hard to figure out.
Your loss… its a very nice release…
Even Stallman says the deal violates NOTHING, and Novell is working with Microsoft to rectify the only problem with the deal: limiting coverage to SUSE users…
So long as that is sorted out before GPLv3 is released, nothing bad will come of this… at least for 5 years, but in all honesty, I don’t think its valid to sue end users anyways.
Following all the fud instead of making your own decision is not intelligent.
the biggest loss here is that indeed people follow the FUD and the gut feelings instead of trying to think reasonable.
The patent deal is worthless; Novell gets a lot of money, MS wants better interoperability and what does the linux community do?
o) trying to kill Novell (and how happy MS will be…)
o) FSF tries to make it even worse by trying to
stop further interoperability.
and yes, Ballmer is a nut. Het’s an idiot, we know. be intelligent and try to understand what happens here, indeed decide yourselve….
>>MS wants better interoperability and what does the linux community do? <<
This deal has nothing to do with msft wanting better interroperability. If msft wanted that, msft could open their API (as msft has been ordered to do in Europe) to Samba, etc.
The linux community has always been 100% open to better interoperability, and msft has always fought it tooth and nail. If msft wants to work better with linux, all msft has to do is to do that.
They are rectifing the deal so that all openSUSE developers are protected, not just the unpayed ones.
I don’t believe there are any talks to cover everyone who uses GPL software.
Perhaps Novell will work out a deal with Microsoft by March, so they could be GPLv3 compliant and continue to improve their distributions with everyones help.
Even then, I’m beginning to dislike the qaulity and decisions made in openSUSE releases. The ZMD backend used in 10.1’s YaST package manager back-end, was a complete disaster. The use of a beta X-server in a final release is totally unacceptable in my mind, considering the importance of a stable X-server.
It’s getting to the point were I’d like to see YaST totally forked to some other distribution with much higher principles of qaulity and stablilty. Plus one with a much larger selection of packages.
YaST (without package management modules) and SaX are all that I care about in SUSE. If I could have these in a distribution with higher principles, I would be thrilled.
Edited 2006-12-04 16:34
yea, I will pass thanks! Release whatever you want. Put orgasm in the box and I still am not interested which is pretty dramatic since I have been married for 20 years and cannot remember the last time I had one of those!
What shelves??
Store shelves I presume. I have actually seen SUSE boxes in some computer stores.
“What shelves??”
CompUSA and Fry’s is the 2 places that come to mind for me. I know CompUSA carries Suse, Xandros, and Linspire, or at least they do at the store I go to in LA.
both users still using SUSE will be pleased.
It was Release Candidate 5, not beta 5 that was declared gold. That’s a lot more plausible (and responsible) sounding.
Hehe thanks. This answers the question I just wanted to ask. To declare a beta as gold would be a bit strange.
Greetings
Mike
How can it be RC5 considering that RC1 is the only one that has been released; one then would assume that RC1 equals Beta 5, which means there were either no show stoppers or the fixes required to make it ‘gold master quality’ were so small, another release was not necessary.
I used to use OpenSUSE as my main distro, but switched to Ubuntu after the 10.1 update fiasco – no matter what I did I just couldn’t get zen-updater to work properly, and when it did kinda work I just didn’t have confidence in what is a very important piece of software (think security updates!).
I was thinking of trying 10.2, but this paragraph from Andreas Jaeger doesn’t inspire me with confidence:
“There are still a lot of bugs open for 10.2 and I’m sure real usage over the time will find some more. We will release via online update security updates for 10.2 as usual and release also the most severe bug fixes. But most bug fixes will only be done for 10.3, our next release coming out next summer.”
Has openSUSE been denegrated to a beta-testing for SLES? It used to be such a great OS (and in my opinion, by far the best KDE implementation).
Oh well…
Just use openSUSE Package Management instead of ZEN in this release, voila…
Its still the best KDE implementation.
Andreas’ comment is bettre than what other people regularly state. Andreas is intelligent enough to understand that nothing (uselful) is without bugs.
If you’ve tried the betas you would be confident enough. even he 10.1 works just fine. It had some rouble with the updater but nothing that couln’t be easy fixed by us administrating several of those systems.
I was never lucky with SUSE. That’s about the only distribution I have tested that systematically comes with dependency problems on a freshly installed system.
From my experience, Mandriva, Fedora, Debian, and other distributions sometimes have dependencies problems, but SUSE seems the only distribution unable to bring them to a reasonably low level (happened to me on freshly installed 9.x, 10.0, 10.1 systems).
I recently told a friend he should try using linux instead of windows and stop worrying about blue screens, dll hells, viruses, etc…
The guy installed SUSE (10.1) using the network install on his system and could not install several applications due to dependencies hell (being inexperienced with linux systems, I can tell you he was not really happy/impressed by linux).
He then installed Ubuntu, and has never looked back. He is even trying to make other people switch to linux.
I will try 10.2 tough, just for curiosity…
EDIT: fixed typo
Edited 2006-12-04 00:15
OK, then this means X.Org 7.2 RC 2 is being shipped in the gold master?
RC 3 was released today, I believe and will be followed by the final release later this month.
What an absurd decision on the SUSE developer’s part for accepting a *beta* X-Server for a Gold Master!
I vote for 10.2 to be delayed until 7.2 final is released and properly integrated.
Very obsurd, patch in all the security features of Xorg 7.2 a month before its released!
Wrong. RC 3 is out so the next release will be final according to the release schedule. I figure that to be within the next week or two.
Definitely obsurd then!
Can’t add security features that benefit everyone! What were they thinking?
Xorg 7.2 is stable enough already. And if there are problems I’m sure they’ll send 7.2 final in an update.
If not having working package management didn’t stop them from releasing 10.1, do you really think a beta x server is going to stop them from releasing 10.2?
I’m really getting sick of all this fud. Please READ. This is a RC of the X server. NOT a beta. X.Org 7.2 will be released any time soon (this month) and OpenSUSE 10.2 will be the first who uses it.
Oh yes, you caught me. I am obviously here to spread fud about Suse. Never mind that I have, prior to 10.1, sung their praises to just about anyone who would listen, or that I run nothing but free software on my workstations (other than nvidia drivers). Yes, you’re correct, I must want to crush Suse.
I just think that releasing with an unfinished x server is not a good idea, especially considering their quality control record recently.
Why assume the x server is unfinished? RCs are supposed to be finished products unless an unexpected bug is found during testing.
True, but there is a reason that most projects have multiple RCs, is there not? It is precisely because it is almost certain that there will be bugs to be fixed. It does make me a bit nervous to have an RC of an x server included in a final release, considering that a problem with the x server could be very…well…visible, so to speak.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that it may not cause problems, but there is a higher chance that it will because it is not a final release. I will keep my fingers crossed because, frankly, I want 10.2 to be a good release. I miss having a stable, highly polished, well-integrated KDE implementation and that is precisely what Suse gave me before 10.1.
The latest development version listed on the website is 10.2 RC 1. The article above mentions both beta 5 and RC 5. So which is it? And where can I download the gold version?
To the person talking about Ubuntu. I’ve tried it. The updater would crash on me almost every second time I ran it. This is not acceptable for release level software. I also ran into some strange bug where the sudo password was never recognized from the GUI.
.. dont care that you are not going to use or download Suse .
Im using the RC1 ATM & dont have any issues
– xcept for suspend to disk still not working – issue with NVidia driver again .
Else all fine .
Zen works !!! – finally – 10.1 was a major pain between the buttocks
Its stable as always .
The default Gnome look in RC1 is disappointing – not even using the gorgeous SuSE window deco
10.2 seems to make it difficult to get fancy effects running … have to try again .
Have to say that the new menus (which are different from another ) in GNOME & KDE are (still) not my taste – I changed to default because it works a lot better with lots of applications installed .
Adding repositories during install is possible .
The bootlaoder is PRETTY !!!
Go penguins 
There are “1 or 2” new config options in YaST (incl “sudo” ! & some iSCSI stuff) .
IMO 10.2 is what 10.1 should have been .
Speed & Memory use havent increased or decreased IMO – its fine
http://linux.sys-con.com/read/308332.htm
“Anybody who has got Linux in their data center today sort of has an undisclosed balance sheet liability, because it’s not just Microsoft patents. Because of the way open source works, there’s nobody who’s been able to do patent coverage or patent indemnification behind that,” Ballmer said.
“To the degree that people are going to deploy Linux, we want Suse Linux to have the highest percentage share of that, because only a customer who has Suse Linux actually has paid properly for the use of intellectual property from Microsoft.”
“We’ve had an issue, a problem that we’ve had to confront, which is because of the way the GPL works, and because open source Linux does not come from a company – Linux comes from the community – the fact that that product uses our patented intellectual property is a problem for our shareholders. We spend $7 billion a year on R&D, our shareholders expect us to protect or license or get economic benefit from our patented innovations. So how do we somehow get the appropriate economic return for our patented innovation, and how do we do interoperability. The truth is, because of the licensing around the GPL, we actually didn’t want to do one without the other.”
Edited 2006-12-04 02:33
FUD is great.
Microsoft will never sue a Linux customer, they don’t want to compete with the likes of IBM in a courtroom.
Of course Microsoft wants a piece of the pie though, every company in the IT segment wants to make money, and Linux is making a lot of money for a lot of people.
Their statement of $7 billion in R&D annually kind of tells me they are jealous. In the Linux segment, many companies spend far less, but all of their R&D initiatives benefit everyone.
Edited 2006-12-04 02:41
Wait… You’re quoting *STEVE BALLMER* as an authoritative source?!?!?
Words fail me.
Really.
I’m sure there’s a joke to be made, but I just can’t get past the logjam.
Mandrake shot itself in the foot all the way to irrelevance by putting out insufficiently tested releases. By the time they realized that the market wasn’t going to put up with this crap and began to do yearly releases with something closer to proper Q&A, the market had moved on.
Suse appears to be doing the same. The last decent Suse release was 9.3, though 10 was passable.
I reluctantly moved to Suse after using Mandrake for many years and after the 10.1 zen fiasco and the current casual attitude towards quality, I am beginning to see fewer reasons to stay with Suse. Yast is still in many regards unmatched in any OS, particularly the fact that it is able to present the same interface via GUI or an n-curses based interface, but this many not be enough to hold many of us in the Suse camp.
Mandrake and Ubuntu’s software installer and updater are miles faster and easier to use on the command line.
And please don’t point me to smart, apt-for-rpm, yum or some other uncooked tacked-on solution. And certainly not that political piece of crapware called zen.
urpmi and apt-get are native to Mandrake and Ubuntu and it shows. They are technical solutions, not the result of turf wars inside Novell. The Ximian guys played their strategic hand. They thought that if they forced mono into a piece of software that would be shipped to millions of customers worldwide, Novell will be forced to continue to finance that financial pit hole that is Mono. And they may be right, but they compromised a working software installer for their short-term and short-sighted goals.
Here’s to hoping Suse sees the error of its ways and makes important changes. I can’t say that I will be waiting for the next release in the summer after I read the release announcement and how they feel about fixing bugs.
There used to be an old-phrase in free software circles: Release it when it’s ready. For all the crap that Debian gets for its slow releases, they have always been rock solid for me. I think the free desktop is now at a stage where documentation, quality assurance and stability are more important to most users than the latest bells and whistles.
What do you guys think?
Edited 2006-12-04 03:00
Mandrake and Ubuntu’s software installer and updater are miles faster and easier to use on the command line.
And please don’t point me to smart, apt-for-rpm, yum or some other uncooked tacked-on solution.
Under 10.l, ‘rug’ is a direct interface to the ZMD system. Aside from it’s incredibly annoying habit of “Waking Up ZMD…” far too often (since “Waking up” is actually code for “Refreshing *all* catalogs from source), it’s pretty easy to use, and is native.
‘rug se totem’ for example, returns a list of packages available matching the string “totem”, where they come from, their version, and what their architecture is. Since you can specify the package as “package.arch”, it gives more flexibility than most systems.
My problem with Ubuntu (edgy) is that in spite of having the appropriate codecs, Totem refuses to play anything. I’d like to remove the package, but apt-get keeps offering to remove “ubuntu-desktop”. This strikes me as excessive.
Under SuSE, I can switch between Mplayer, totem, and Xine pretty seamlessly, without tripping unusual dependencies.
The only time it gets tricky under SuSE is picking whether you want i586 or x86_64 packages– to sort out those dependencies, ‘rug’ is just about mandatory.
Speedwise, it’s OK– apt-get is still faster, and of course, the fact that it refreshes all the catalogs whether you want it to or not is incredibly annoying, but I can see why they did it.
ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage. Removing it has no effect on the system. I hate totem and remove it whenever I get the firsdt chance after installing a distro. It has never been easy to get going for me.
As for Suse, every release I give it a whirl. Every single release Yast seems sluggish with lots of scripts that it runs even when you do something trivial. The system seems heavu compared to Mandriva and Ubuntu.The Suse guys really need to address the yast sluggishness. Mind you I have an AMD Athlon 3000+ with dual channel PC 3200 1GB RAM which flies on every linux distro except Suse.
Totem may be having problems because there are 2 backends available and Gstreamer one is the default, you have to install totem-xine package and there won’t be a thing it won’t open (well, except .flv).
Apt refreshes everything and it’s still gazillion times faster than in Zen/Yast/rpm in Suse
“There used to be an old-phrase in free software circles: Release it when it’s ready.”
from The Cathedral and the Bazaar: “release early, release often”.
“urpmi and apt-get are native to Mandrake and Ubuntu”
er, apt-get is native to Debian.
Here’s to hoping Suse sees the error of its ways and makes important changes. I can’t say that I will be waiting for the next release in the summer after I read the release announcement and how they feel about fixing bugs.
zmd was a fiasco. The devs admit that, are ashamed of it, apologize for it, and did their best to work through a difficult situation. Ultimately it was Novell that fragged that by forcing the inclusion of an unproven component to the core-system into the beta period and past the version freeze.
10.2 has seen the inclusion of a new tool called zypper that uses the same package management framework without requiring the zmd daemon or the mono framework around it. It offers the same advantages of zmd/rug, namely the ability to work with multiple architectures and the ability to use delta rpms for updates, a significant advantage for people without broadband connections.
Yast without zmd is blazingly fast compared to previous versions, even predating the zmd fiasco in 10.1. I won’t quibble over who’s native package manager is faster, but Yast is certainly up there now in terms of speed. It is a little bit quirky to get used to initially, but once you do it is a powerful tool and, at least in my personal experience, better suited for working around dependency resolutions, locking packages, downgrading etc.
The KDE desktop includes a new updater applet that is designed to support the new package management framework without zen (although it will still work with zen).
And there’s the kicker, only KDE offers a native non-zmd solution in OpenSuse 10.2. Gnome is still dependent upon the zmd-based updater application and as such, zmd/mono is still part of the default install.
This is something that was debated on the factory mailing list, it was felt that KDE should default to not requiring zmd. Although it can easily be uninstalled without any detrimental impact to Yast (in fact it improves Yast by uninstalling zmd), that’s not necessarily intuitive and new users wouldn’t know to do that. But the decision was made to keep zmd because of the Gnome dependencies on it, and it was determined that it could lead to issues for people running both desktops, or adding Gnome after installing KDE.
Nevertheless, to simplify things, there is a “pattern” included in the package manager (and can be selected at install if you don’t settle for defaults) that will use the new opensuse package management versus zmd.
For 10.3, they’ll probably work on extracting zmd from Gnome and by then, zmd should be an option for those masochistic enough to insist on it.
As for the bugs, well, it’s a drag to release with open bugs but then again people scream when releases are delayed as well. Again on the mailing list there was discussion and input from the community on which open bugs needed to be addressed immediately, versus those that were minimal or less severe and could be addressed with a patch after release. I don’t think any distro is perfect in managing this process, at least the dev team is up front with it. But I’ve yet to see a new release of Fedora or *buntu, for instance, that wasn’t followed up by a flurry of updates and patches in the initial weeks after release.
To me the important thing about the zmd fiasco is that they acknowledge it and address it. Certainly it turned some people off, but to me the fact that they chose to address it is what counts. I can forgive mistakes as long as they learn from them, that is what will ultimately lead to a better product for me.
For anyone that uses KDE, Suse 10.2 is certainly worth trying. As has been said, Suse still does one of the best KDE desktops and few of the mainstream distros have a configuration utility that can match Yast, even with it’s quirks. You can certainly tweak config files if you choose to, and I often do, but Suse is the only distro I’ve used that can isolate a user from touching the CLI for configuring their system.
It’s also worth pointing out that openSuse is not part of the MS-Novell deal, and openSuse users are no more “protected” from patent litigation that any other distro. At least consider openSuse on it’s merits; if you’re going to “shun” it because of the fact that Novell sponsors it, keep in mind Novell sponsors many other projects like xgl/compiz, mono, beagle, fspot, banshee et al., it’s difficult to find a mainstream desktop distro that doesn’t have Novell-sponsored elements in it, which of course is the way OSS development works, so let’s keep things in perspective.
Yast without zmd is blazingly fast compared to previous versions, even predating the zmd fiasco in 10.1. I won’t quibble over who’s native package manager is faster, but Yast is certainly up there now in terms of speed
That’s good to hear, I’ll give openSuse yet another chance then
I’ve always liked it’s KDE implementation (even though I’m a Gnome user) but Yast despite it’s vast capabilities was too slow for me. Looking something up in manual or on some forums and changing some .conf file manually was faster ;p
Suse always seemed to be very polished in terms of features, if the developers spent one release cycle on fixing bugs and improving speed it would be considered the best distro by most Linux users IMO.
The zmd fiasco just was something that addresses a very critical part of a system.Namely keeping upto date.I would rather have had any other bug exept one with Yast or zmd and the like.They deliberately added zmd although they knew it had bugs.That doesn’t testify in favour of the project management.To get things indeed more into perspective i must admit SuSE has served me very well from 7.2 upto 9.3/10.0 They did free AppArmor amongst other packages.SuSE allways managed to tightly integrade KDE in their distro and showed an arguably good taste of design as well.However choosing a partner whoose syntax is threathening in outbound communications which adresses highly likely unproven patent infringement isn’t.Fortunately there’s a lot to choose from in FOSS country.Let’s hope it stays free and prospers for years to come regardless of the effects of the MS/Novell convenent,i hope Novell stays alert and may survive whatever comes next.
zmd was a fiasco. The devs admit that, are ashamed of it, apologize for it, and did their best to work through a difficult situation…….10.2 has seen the inclusion of a new tool called zypper that uses the same package management framework without requiring the zmd daemon or the mono framework around it.
Indeed. I thought that pile of crap called Red Carpet, or Rug, or whatever it’s called (that package management thing that always broke your system) was a thing of the past. Apparently not for some reason.
Red Carpet is apparently part of yet another Novell grand administration tool plan (disaster) to implement Zenworks on Linux, which had apparently found its way into SLED and SLES. Certainly, there are Gnome dependencies on it now that are wider than just package management because Zenworks is part of a wider plan to manage the desktop through gconf etc. How they’re going to extract this from Gnome in 10.3 I don’t know. Good luck to Novell on that, is all I can say ;-).
Although the implementation in SLE was more reliable than what was in OpenSuse 10.1, there was still a fair bit of kickback from customers about it which prompted a rethink. Ultimately, they had to.
It’s good to know that you can still get package management without ZMD, and the new applet in KDE is quite nice. The guy on the Google Summer of Code project who worked on it did a good job, and he got it up and working in an impressively small amount of time.
Yast is still in many regards unmatched in any OS
Indeed. Good management tools, particularly graphical, or lack of them, is what is holding Red Hat back, even though they’re the market leader. I hate to keep harping on about this, but it is what is holding back Linux distributors from breaking out of the Unix world and into the Windows one and of SMBs. You need good development tools and infrastructure to develop good quality grahical tools.
They thought that if they forced mono into a piece of software that would be shipped to millions of customers worldwide, Novell will be forced to continue to finance that financial pit hole that is Mono.
As an outsider looking in, that’s what it looked like unfortunately. Alas, Novell didn’t want a lot of the more cost effective and ready-made solutions that were available to them that could have provided them with competitive advantage, and they fired all the people that could have made it work ;-). I suspect that Novell will pay very dearly for that, and perhaps even more so than they did for Unix System Labs and WordPerfect.
OpenSuse still produces the best KDE oriented distribution around, and its still quite a bit better than Kubuntu. However, OpenSuse really is just a beta or an alpha test for the SLE family unfortunately, rather than aiming to get everything stable for OpenSuse and rock solid for SLE.
Edited 2006-12-04 17:06
OpenSuse still produces the best KDE oriented distribution around, and its still quite a bit better than Kubuntu. However, OpenSuse really is just a beta or an alpha test for the SLE family unfortunately, rather than aiming to get everything stable for OpenSuse and rock solid for SLE.
The shame of it is that it didn’t use to be that way. Before Novell bought Suse, Suse was a smaller company and yet was able to put together a stronger and better tested products every six months. And they did this and had enough time to get shiny boxes into CompUSA, Bestbuy and your local retailer, which gave them needed visibility.
How come now a bigger outfit such as Novell cannot pull what Suse alone could? Maybe because they have a lot of deadweight on the ship. People who stopped caring about technology a long time ago and became product managers, VPs of Desktop technologies and heads of similarly sounding bureaucratic positions.
Damn shame.
A nice test to the upcoming SLED Desktop and Server. I prefer my SLED 10 installation, and have had no problems. But if you want cheap and free you get what you pay for. I consider OpenSuse as a testbed for SLED, as Fedora is to Red Hat EL.
Regardless of the Novell deal with Microsoft (a validation on the MONO framework in my mind) Suse means an excellent release. Congrats to all who are responsible!
Edited 2006-12-04 04:18
I have used most SuSE versions since 6.4
But on all my PC’s over the years (and there have been quite a few) it seems to slow down after time goes by.
It always starts out very snappy, but slows down.
I have also used Debian distro’s (Debian, Mepis, and recently Linspire) and they seem to be consistant in performance as time goes by. The Debian distros just seem to run cleaner on clone PC’s it seems.
I wish SuSE would do something about this.
suse need to improve their performance
mandriva is faster but don’t their management tool is not better than suse
i hope suse will improve performance for suse 10.1
HI Folks….after extensive testing of the Alphas through Betas and RC1, I can say that I’ll be using 10.2. It’s a fine release. You can install without ZMD now and just use the openSUSE updater…which is welcome. About open bugs…as someone mentioned above…there isn’t a distro released EVER without open bugs (of course, we know about Windows too, right?) and this is just honesty. I haven’t found any bugs in my copy of RC1 yet!
About the Novell/MS deal, I personally think that it’s still too early to tell…and the FOSS community went overboard and overreacted. Time will tell…even though it makes me slightly uncomfortable as well.
But I won’t NOT use this FINE distro because of some ideology. It has been, and seems to be, for me, the best distribution out there…
I destroyed all my SuSe / Novell disks and I won’t be using the “open” version of it, either. Any company that tries to do any sort of harm to Linux is off my buy list, even if it’s unintentional on their part.
What’s more, I don’t want to do any sort of business with Microsoft, either. I have to do it in my daily work but not in my personal work.
SUSE is the best KDE desktop i have tried to date.
it is also an excellent kitchen-sink distro.
and a very polished one too.
looking forward to trying 10.2
In the early days, the windows fans and the linux fans were there. Two camps. Windows guys who said: linux sucks. Linux guys why said:windows sucks.
And now, happy us, we have divided the linux camps in two.
The linux guys why at least try to understand what the MS/NOVELL deal is and try to see the positive parts and the other linux guys who have destroyed all their cd’s and setups.
How come that I think that this is one of the most idiotic things that happens ? The interlan linux community that wrechs their own products…
Isn’t that great? next is that FSF will add another part on GPLv3 and add some more damage to linux.
Really great guys, I am proud that so many people have shown their brilliant insight. MS will thank you soon if we keep talking like idiots.
We should stop helping the FUD that’s spread and we should stop the FSF because of their too idealistic thoughts that will damage linux and many other open source stuff. That’s one thing we should not want but hey, gut feelings are always good, isn’t it?
At least some people see the positive parts of it.