Now that Apple has unveiled the iPad, people are wondering what the future holds for the iPhone OS platform and the concepts behind it. The iPad comes scarily close to being an actual computer in the more classical sense of the word, and a recent Apple job posting seems to indicated the Cupertino giant is interested in further moving the iPhone OS up the ladder. We ask you: would you be put off or excited about the iPhone OS’ restrictive model moving up the stack?
The job posting is for an engineer manager tasked with the “bring-up” of the iPhone OS on new platforms.
The Core Platform team within Apple’s Core OS organization is looking for a talented and inspired manager to lead a team focused on bring-up of iPhone OS on new platforms. The team is responsible for low level platform architecture, firmware, core drivers and bring-up of new hardware platforms. The team consists of talented engineers with experience in hardware, firmware, IOKit drivers, security and platform architecture.
Computerworld specifically speculates that the iPhone OS might one day power MacBook Air-like laptops. Such a laptop would be powered by Apple’s custom silicon (like the iPad). Computerworld goes a few steps further even, arguing that low-end Macs, like the Mac Mini and MacBook, would follow suit. As ridiculous as this may sound to some, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is in line with Apple’s plans; total control is part of Apple’s DNA.
Personally, this looks like a horror scenario to me, but I’m more interested in how you feel. Would you buy laptops and desktops powered by an operating system that is locked down, where you can only install applications from the App Store? How important is the freedom Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux give?
… in which every program you run on your laptop has to be purchased via a Microsoft web site. Microsoft would approve each application, and would take a share of each sale. Apps that interfered with Microsoft’s business model would not be approved, and there would be no recourse. It would not be possible to write your own program for your computer. Would you choose this world? Then why would you choose it if the monopolist is Apple instead of Microsoft?
voices generated by apple talk in the media make it seem as it apple has a vast market share that is big enough to attract government scrutiny. It is not and this is where your microsoft/apple comparison falls short.microsoft is a convicted monopoly, apple isnt and your comparison also fails in this regard too. when does microsoft convicted legal status end?
A lot of people are putting up with app store, why wouldnt the same people put up with the same store and its policies with another device from apple? apple doesnt aim to be number in market share in any market and they have a loyal following that will buy anything apple and that is why they can afford to do stuff like their app store and their policies.
this article is nothing more than an attempt at inflating apple noise on the internet to get more clicks???
Sleazeball vendor lock-in is sleazeball vendor lock-in, regardless of who practices it or how big they are. That’s like saying we shouldn’t go after mass murderers becuase they are only a fraction of the population – or we shouldn’t go after inside-traders on wall street because they are only a small proportion of the people doing business there.
All this monopoly bullshit most people knee-jerk into as a ‘defense’ of sleazy practices, or as ‘offense’ against the ‘great satan’ forgets one of the base precepts of Law and human rights: “For a law to be fair, it must treat all parties equally.” Justice needs to be blind, so that undue favoritism and unjust persecution is not executed.
Penalizing any individual or group of individuals for things practiced by all simply because they are more successful isn’t just unjust; It should be considered criminal. If they are performing something that is unfair to it’s competitors, then it’s competitors should NOT be allowed to do the EXACT SAME THING. If they break the law – then fine, slap them down for it… – But I swear it’s almost like some people want to make being successful illegal… Being more succesful than their competitors does NOT justify slapping them down for LEGAL actions that EVERYONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY IS DOING TOO!!! It shouldn’t matter if you are black, white, male, female, successful or dirt poor – While certainly monopolies can be guilty of abuse, there’s a difference between going after them for illegal/amoral activities, and just penalizing them for daring to be successful.
Which is why if MS is going to get slapped down for IE and Media player, Apple shouldn’t be allowed to bundle iTunes or Safari, *nix distros should not be allowed to bundle FF and players like Totem or VLC, etc, etc… But no, they cannot compete on their own merits so they have to resort to litigation – Which IMHO is the EXACT SAME BULL as SCO’s ‘business model’.
But then, lots of unjust practices are propagated by the word of law and the ignorance of the sheep who kowtow to media hype and the words of their ‘leaders’ who are more interested in filling their government’s coffers than they are the rights of the people or the fairness of their laws, made worse when fines can be handed out by rubber-stamp judges in places like the EU….
Though much of it is just the irrational hatred of anyone who happens to be more successful than your favorite pet project. Rah, rah, fight the power, down with the man… One step removed from the tinfoil hat brigade.
Edited 2010-02-23 22:55 UTC
This is true at a principle level but the practicality of things dont always make it so. It a perfect market, what is good for the individual or group of individual is most of the time also good for the society.What is good for a monopoly is not always what is good for the society and that is why monopolies operates under a different set of rules.
There is a difference btw being successful and being a monopoly. Being a monopoly is not a crime in itself, what is criminal is for a company to use a monopoly in one industry to bully itself into another.
to hold as equals those who are not equal will most likely disadvantage one at the expense of another.
I don’t agree 100% with the laws against monopolies, but the logic behind them is that they don’t do the exact same thing. For example, Microsoft bundling IE with Windows has had a much bigger impact on the browser industry that Apple bundling Safari with OS X. So, it’s like saying that me slapping someone should have the same penalties as Mike Tyson punching someone. Sure we did the same thing, but the guy punched by Tyson now misses half of his teeth.
Maybe because Apple do good products and Microsoft don’t.
That’s troll man.
Apple does not have anything compared in size, features, performance, etc. to Microsoft Office, Exchange, Active Directory, NTFS or Visual Studio; Apple does not have a huge set of frameworks or APIs similar to Win32 API, DirectX, .NET Framework and so on.
Apple applications are nice, easy to use, intuitive, etc… but “nice” does not always means “good”.
you both are trolls
Edited 2010-02-24 01:39 UTC
You are seriously bashing Apple, because Apple uses OpenGL, OpenAL and other open standards instead of proprietary in-house APIs like DirectX?
You are actually saying that Win32 is good? WTF?
Oh, BTW: If .NET is so good, why do Microsoft’s own products not use it? Where is the .NET port of MS Office? I thought that porting to .NET is easy, because Visual Studio allows almost any language to be compiled into managed code — at least that what MS is telling us.
Isn’t Visual Studio itself now being written with a lot of .net code, including VS2010 using WPF?
If talking good about Apple’s competition is actually bashing Apple, then, yes.
But being more accurate, I was talking about the good stuff implemented by MS. I agree that using open standards is better than proprietary technologies, but, telling that Apple IS a good contributor of such open standards is actually arguable [though WebKit and IOKit are really good examples of their contributions]; by the way, Cocoa, Carbon, QuickTime and all the UI built on Mac OS X is heavily based on their proprietary APIs [in the same way than MS].
Yes! There is no another comparable API in features and size that takes care of backward compatibility and ABI compatibility for such long long time [circa 1995]. I do not think it is bug free, but given its huge size, the number of bugs it has is really really small.
As far as I know, Microsoft System Center Operations Manager is built 100% on managed code.
Now, what is your problem with MS? I AM NOT a Microsoft fan, actually I have a MacBook with Snow Leopard as laptop and my desktop runs Gentoo and I like both; but I cannot close my eyes and say: “Microsoft is bad, Microsoft is bad” when they are doing really interesting things. Including developer documentation, MSDN provides much more good information than developer.apple.com.
I am a Java programmer too and the Microsoft CLR implementation is far better than the JVM; for example: Generics in Java are just syntactical sugar (and the VM does not know about them) while in C# the support for generics is implemented inside the CLR. Autoboxing, duck typing and all such staff is implemented in .NET in a better way than in Java.
Edited 2010-02-24 03:19 UTC
I never told that Apple is a good contributor, though they do far better than MS.
Pretty much Apple’s entire stack of back-end technologies is FOSS — Darwin, Streaming Server, CalDAV Server, LLVM, etc.
Cocoa is just extended OpenStep, which was jointly released into the open by NeXT and Sun.
And it hindered innovation. Software development is a kind of evolution. If the environment doesn’t change, you are not forced to adapt, hence software stagnates.
The first release of .NET was — almost exactly to this day — eight years ago. Eight years.
Yet, apps included with Windows 7, MS Office, and almost everything else has not been ported to .NET.
Why? Does MS not have enough faith in its own technology?
OK, there are a few MS apps that use .NET, but none of the major mainstream applications like MS Office, Windows (Win just ships .NET, but doesn’t use it), or Messenger.
Let’s see…
MS sabotages open standards, MS hinders innovation, MS is even backstabbing its own customers (first advocating “Games for Windows” big time, and then canceling Windows versions of its own games and releasing them only for Xbox — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Wake#Development )
Edited 2010-02-24 04:19 UTC
How has Windows stagnated because of providing backwards compatibility? The only thing stagnating at those software vendors who are still using on win32 API calls when Microsoft has provide d superior alternatives that have since replaced the old versions. If you’re going to bemoan backwards compatibility then why don’t you complain about Apple continuing to provide Quicktime 7 which has resulted in plugin vendors still not porting their plugins to the new framework, or the fact that Apple provides Carbon.
To quote Chairman Mao – “It doesn’t matter whether a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice”. Whilst you’re fixated on the apparently newness or sexiness of an API – there are real programmers out there making real products for real people in the real world. When you consider the pigs breakfast that Mac OS X is from a developers perspective, it pales in comparison to the the world Microsoft needs to do. I suggest you look through AdiumX, Mozilla, and numerous other open source projects that list bugs upon bugs in Mac OS X that Apple refuses to fix.
As for backwards compatibility; I like the fact that I don’t lose compatibility between updates; I remember when I was being a system admin and users installing updates only to find their favourite game stopped working, favourite applications stopped functioning as it should. MacBU programmers filing bug reports with Apple and getting told, “we’re not interested in fixing; just re-write your whole application in Cocoa” as the solution.
Edited 2010-02-24 08:34 UTC
Actually, that was Deng Xiaoping– different guy entirely!
Calling an API “good” needs a little more than “long-lasting”, “nearly bug-free” and “backward compatible”. A “good” API has also a good design, and at least compared to .NET, the design of Win32 is horrible. It could have been done way better from its beginning on, this isn’t a problem of evolving API design during the last 15 years.
[q] You are seriously bashing Apple, because Apple uses OpenGL, OpenAL and other open standards instead of proprietary in-house APIs like DirectX? You are actually saying that Win32 is good? WTF? Oh, BTW: If .NET is so good, why do Microsoft’s own products not use [q]
Quite a variety of Microsoft Product do use .net. Google that.
The Win32 is actuially a very good API and is successfully used on mobile, embedded, desktop and server devices. If we measure success by such things as flexibility, useage — infact while the win32 api has been in continuous use apple have scrapped and rewritten there core apis and os product 3 or 4 times.
I would not buy Apple locked down device. I need flexibility of a real OS to develop and install programs not approved of by a third party.
I’d be surprised if anyone here actually said yes, I think you’re preaching to the choir. I think I’ll conduct my own informal poll of less technically inclined associates as that will be more likely to predict the failure or success of such a move by Apple.
I wouldn’t … the OS works well for the touch devices, but giving me a full laptop I think I’d want a full OS.
While we have no proof of this, or any way to tell the future, it scares me to think of the iPhone OS replacing Mac OS X on main stream computer devices. The iPhone OS is a nice compliment to Mac OS X.. not a replacement!!
I consider a laptop a “computer” more so than an “device”. I wouldn’t want the restrictions on that come with the iPhone or iPad on a “general purpose computing device”.
However, I AM comfortable with both the iPhone and iPad in their current configurations.
But, that said, it wouldn’t bother me if they put the iPhone OS in, say, a Car, or a home enterainment device (Apple TV 2.0), or other appliances.
Personally, I like the idea of cars becoming I/O extension devices for handhelds like the iPhone, much as was demonstrated at CES this year by Ford. I fine the idea of yank all of those apps out of the car and putting them in to the iPhone or Android device VERY compelling.
I’d never buy a general purpose computer powered by the iPhone OS as it currently stands. Now, iPhone OS itself is not a bad system and it shares many common components and APIs with OS X. I wouldn’t mind the iPhone OS itself on a netbook-like device, what I wouldn’t want and could never tolerate on such a device is the restrictive app store model. There’s nothing specifically in the iPhone OS’s architecture that requires it to be locked down to the app store, that’s just something Apple has chosen. I would not buy an iPhone OS powered computer as it currently stands. Were the restrictions lifted, however, it would probably actually be a nice OS for netbooks and home entertainment units. Of course, Apple will most likely never unlock the doors so to speak.
Don’t bash Apple on theoretical speculation and don’t lock yourself in if you don’t want to get locked in.
Since when is voting “yes” or “no” on a hypothetical bashing?
It’s not just a yes or no question. It’s a job offering from Apple, for who know what they’re planning, brought here to us by Thom, who presents it as a “OSNews asking thing, embedding his Apple hatred in the text. He could have said “Who would like an easy to use laptop”, or even better kept it neutral with “An iPhone OS laptop”.
The answer is pretty simple now, most sane people would answer no to this question. But what are we talking about? A laptop running the iPhone OS? There is no such thing, not in real life, not announced, not even as a rumor. And if there would be one, just don’t buy it if you don’t like it.
I’d also like to say something about the “restrictive” iPhone (OS). It’s a bloody consumer device. I have loads of consumer stuff at home and most don’t have a SDK or allow me to install loads of stuff, unlike my iPhone. I don’t complain about that, just like I don’t complain that the OSNews site is “restrictive” because I can’t wipe the user database and upload my own or change the ads.
My Macs are made by Apple too, yet they’re not “restricted” like the iPhone is, because it wouldn’t make sense.
Should Apple come with some sort of laptop running some kind of iPhone OS flavor there might be a market for it. If you don’t like it, buy a Dell with Windows or install Linux.
Thom keeps suggesting the world is taken over and then destroyed by Apple and somehow we are all forced to use Apple products.
This is just not true. I can ditch my iMac anytime and switch to Linux or put the SIM card of my iPhone in another phone. There are plenty of other options you can chose from.
Truth hurts, no?
The question is simple: would you buy a laptop with an OS as locked down and restrictive as the iPhone OS? This is a perfectly valid question, and is perfectly in line with how Apple and its fans present the iPhone. The restrictiveness of the iPhone is marketed as a selling point by Apple, so why, when *I* use it, I’m suddenly being anti-Apple? Does this imply Apple is anti-Apple for using the exact same selling point?
What truth? That Apple is destroying the world? Or that Apple is promoting its iPhone as a restricted device (yet it allows you to do more than most phones)?
Show me this laptop and I can judge it if I would buy/use one.
The truth that the iPhone is restrictive, and that Apple is using that as a selling point. Apparently, it’s okay when Apple does it, but when someone else does it, it’s suddenly anti-Apple.
By your “logic”, Apple is anti-Apple.
I don’t care about the “restrictive” property of my iPhone, it beats every other phone I have so I’m using it. If someone makes a phone that’s better I would certainly consider it.
You keep crying foul over Apple’s approach to the iPhone and soon the iPad, yet nobody is forced to use any of these products. It’s a jail with an open door, you can get out whenever you like.
Until Apple indeed presents a laptop with some kind of iPhone OS we can judge it and everyone can make their own choice if they’d like one or not. You can not base this on “laptop” and “iPhone OS”. With these two ingredients can make a whole variety of products, ranging from crap to brilliant.
That’s why the question was phrased as a “would you?” question. Or are you seriously going to argue that we are not allowed to speculate about where Apple is going?
You don’t think the text you surround this question with is kind of biased and pushing towards either answer?
How is it biased? The core part of the question IS the restrictive aspect: would you buy a laptop with the same restrictive model as the iPhone? That’s a perfectly valid question. The very core of the discussion IS the restrictive aspect, so why is it wrong for me to emphasize that?
The restrictive thing is a fact, now it’s up to the readers here to discuss the merits and demerits of such an approach, and to weigh them and come to a conclusion.
Well, things like:
“ridiculous”
“total control is part of Apple’s DNA”
“horror scenario”
I personally don’t think we’ll ever see an “iPhone OS” laptop. The “restricted” approach works for the iPhone and the iPad (or not), but laptops are a different breed. So should we see one if totally depends on a lot more than just some kind of iPhone OS and the classification “laptop”.
But I’ll add something to the “total control” quote to clarify my stand. Apple does indeed prefer total control, but mainly to provide good (stable) products. They want all parts to work together. This is not strange or evil. Most companies buy computers from the same brand and type to keep maintenance easy for the IT department. However you make it sound like Apple is trying to control far more than their own products. Perhaps to a certain extent when you consider the iTunes store, but not much beyond that really (unlike Microsoft and Google for example).
You’re only allowed to speculate about Apple in ways that praise Apple. For example, you’re allowed to speculate whether the iPad will be merely amazing? Or will it be the most amazing thing ever in the history of amazingness.
But any speculation that’s more critical is a clear sign of “anti-Apple hatred.” It may seem like special treatment – but since Apple is clearly the second coming of Santajesus, it’s unfair NOT to give Apple special treatment.
Hope this helps.
Only when it’s applied to a company whose fans are mostly pseudo-intellectuals hipsters with serious delusions of persecution. Those martyrdom complexes don’t feed themselves, you know.
Apple fanboys are so intellectually-insecure that they are simply incapable of recognizing that there are valid reasons to criticize Apple and their products. No, to them, anyone who criticizes Apple must be “embedding his Apple hatred in the text.”
These are people who are so completely removed from reality that they will actually compare mockery of Mac users to racism or even the holocaust.
… as long as I could install Vista, 7, or PCBSD on it.
You don’t buy Apple products for their software…
Sure you do. Nobody would’ve bought an iPhone if it was just a regular Windows Mobile phone in an identical case.
i would never even buy an ipad, I mean an internet tablet that has no multitask in 2010? And no freedom to install the software i want on the device that i bought? That would be the model of a laptop powered by the iphone-os. A little better than cable tv.
And it would work well and be easy and fun to use.
Errr. WTF? I wasn’t off topic or trolling. Why’d I get modded down? The question was asked, I answered truthfully.
Anyway, I can guess that whoever modded me down does not have an iPhone.
I think if Apple took the time to research something, they would also be sure to make it work – not just inflating iPhone OS, but also adapting it appropriately.
It really depends on the going price for an arm and a leg.
As much I like Apple, and might even consider getting an iPad, iPhone OS is currently too limited and closed for an OS for ‘real’ computers like laptops. No multitasking and no apps that aren’t approved by apple would kill it. I use Mac OS X because it ‘just works’ and doesn’t bother me with anti-virus software and has lots of nice little features, and because it lets me do WHATEVER I WANT. I can use software that competes with apples products. I can install other OSes of my choice on my mac for completely valid reasons (compatibility, development etc.) I would never consider replacing my main computer with a giant closed iPod touch.
Though I would buy a Mac, If I needed a Mac. It’s all about the capabilities.
if I just wanted to browse the web with it. However the price would have to be right and since it would be an Apple product there is no way they could undercut a Windows or Linux netbook.
Thom you seem worried about Apple pushing their app store everywhere. You don’t have to worry since most applications are in-house and Apple doesn’t care about the enterprise market.
What I want is a laptop that has no trackpad instead you slide the iPhone into the trackpad area and it syncs and becomes the trackpad.
All things sync including web browser experience, instant messenger, etc.
The desktop interface is OSX and when I go to take the iPhone out of the docked trackpad area everything is all ready on the iPhone. Example I look up something online in Safari desktop when I open up Safari iPhone it has that as my last page, etc.
On windows, I love using steam. On linux, it is seriously irritating when you can’t apt-get something. On the iPhone OS, I find the app store the killer feature on the device (which is saying something, because I adore the OS)
If the appstore moved up the stack, it would be beyond fantastic. The only thing that would suck is removing the ability to install via dmg (which I seriously hope they don’t do). I like buying, downloading, installing, and updating via one click. When you are willing to spend 5-15$ on quality software, you end up with very little that is not paid for. Keeping track of installers and serial numbers is a pain, so the appstore would be a godsend.
I wouldn’t buy an iPhone-powered laptop, but I might recommend one for my grandmother.
My view is that this can be a valid option. Wouldn’t want it for myself of course – for main usage anyway.
It might be a great option for a machine to meet the needs of aged relatives, or indisciplined teenagers.
There is an appealing possibility of having to do far less crappy system maintenance and reloads for relatives who are indifferent to issues of security.
Too much time, too much RAM, too many MIPS, and far too much money is devoted to battling malware on machines that can do their job well with limited range of software.
In saying it might be a great option … the market may not take to it. Interesting to see.
Open source would really struggle to achieve a comparable O/S ecosystem. Not technically – but socially. Perhaps Theo De Raadt could be enticed into the arena (tongue firmly and kindly in cheek).
YES, I would buy it.
And I would finally be able to sleep soundly in the warm thought that Saint Steve would be worrying for my decaying morals, and cleaning my software collection and my bookshelves of anything lewd or offensive (and cleaning my pockets, at the same time).
Blessed be the lord!
They could call it the iThink, because it would be He who thought (in general), and He could impose (or strongly suggest) when you could think yourself, and what. So comfortable! So INTUITIVE! Though maybe heThink would be more appropriate.
It would surely have its Believers: Apple stuff always does. Sacrifice your mind to my (extremely) elegantly shaped plastic!
Oh, but those fart apps… (blush)… Naughty, naugthy! Still a little way to go before being whiter than white, but we’ll surely walk it.
no.
By what a tinkertoy linux is on what, for me at least, is a mobile desktop scale device – So the iPhone OS? Same reaction.
The concept of ARM+Linux has ZERO appeal to me even at the netbook factor compared to Win7 – I can’t see the iPhone’s gutted OS or other ‘compromise for handheld form factor’ OS (like android) being any better than versions of Linux already ‘desktop targeted’ – Much less actual USEFUL operating systems Windows 7 or OSX.
This is because what I want in a laptop is a downsized desktop, and what I want in a netbook is a downsized laptop; I do NOT want a upsized handheld – hence the problem with the iPod Maxo (iPad) and the notion of things like Android on a ARM based netbook.
… an attitude shared by many which is the REAL reason you will be hard pressed to even find a netbook that doesn’t come with Windows right now; You make enough sacrifices because of the form factor to start with without tacking on the sacrifices of non-standard architecture and dearth of quality applications… and no, GIMP, OoO, Inkscape, Kmidi, etc do NOT qualify as quality for my uses – **** I can’t even find a media player as useful as Winamp and/or media player classic, though plenty of them LOOK like it.
I want a desktop OS on my laptop, not some dumbed down rubbish interface full of sacrifices made for some tiny little screen that’s useless for most of what I use a laptop for.
Edited 2010-02-23 22:31 UTC
Wtf did Linux have to do with this? Wow, you trolls are getting desperate.
It’s called a fair comparison – since we’re talking about taking less capable OS and moving them up the ladder to laptops… So compare it to the other OS out there ON laptops and Handhelds. That means Andriod (which sits atop linux), dumbed down *nix like the “netbook remixes” and of course, the failed attempts at making netbooks with linux showing that a less capable dumbed down version is not what people are looking for once you get up to a real screen size with a keyboard (or without a keyboard for that matter). Hell, linux is the only platform that is available across ALL those device form factors, so of course it should be discussed.
You kneejerk for my daring to mention linux – but don’t bother taking me to task for mentioning Windows 7 or OS X.
God forbid we discuss all the other options when looking at one item… and you call me the troll.
Edited 2010-02-23 23:04 UTC
And that comment is clearly designed to start a flame war. Sorry, but your attempts are transparent, you need to do better than that. For clarification, the question isn’t about the capabilities of the iPhone OS, rather it’s more concerned with the restrictive ecosystem around it that is the cause of the limited capabilities and the lock down.
Funny, I thought the question was “Would you buy an Iphone OS based laptop” – Which I answered along with why. When looking for a laptop I don’t want a upscaled handheld, I want a downsized desktop.
When the question is “Would you buy one” it’s capabilities – both advantages and shortcomings are really the only factor you should be thinking about. If you aren’t “taking into consideration the capabilities of the iPhone OS” then what the blue blazes is this entire discussion even ABOUT!?!
Nice try though.
Edited 2010-02-24 00:59 UTC
Yeah, but don’t you think the OS would HAVE to be morphed to be more useful? I think the “investigation”, which implies finding out how it MIGHT work and what they MIGHT be able to do with the OS on a laptop/netbook, is a good idea. They probably WON’T do it for many of the reasons cited by various posters. But it cannot hurt to see if a different form of OS UI would better suit other small computing products instead of full-blown OS X.
Again, in its present form the iPhone OS would not be very appropriate (my opinion of course) on a netbook or notebook, but in a modified form that would make it multi-tasking, it could become useful. Apple does not HAVE this, which is why they are investigating the possibilities.
The other issue is the app store. If this OS would ONLY run apps purchased from the app store, it could be restrictive. On the other hand, if this OS becomes multi-tasking and adds some other capabilities more congruent with desktop operating systems, and Apple exposes the APIs necessary to get down to the nitty gritty, developers could create more useful and powerful applications allowing a broader range of capability for the OS.
Now how about you ask the same question but change the word restrictive to – “virus and spyware free”
We ask you: would you be put off or excited about the iPhone OS’ virus and spyware free model moving up the stack?
Ask this question and see what the responses are.
Wow.
The question itself implies that to answer in the affirmative makes you an idiot. Why bother asking it?
In the intro you say the ipad comes “scarily” close to being a real computer. “Scarily”? Not “Amazingly”, “remarkably” or something positive but “scarily”.
The questions itself picks “restrictive” as the description rather than leaving it up to the users of iphone OS to make up their own minds and answer based on their own assessment.
Long toes?
The iPhone OS is restrictive. That’s a fact. It is perfectly valid to put that as part of the question, especially seeing Apple itself uses the restrictive nature of the device as a marketing tool.
First off, I own an MacBook Pro, a Mac Pro, a PowerMac G5, a Mac mini, a (pathetic) Apple TV, and a wonderful iPhone 3GS. I’ve been using Apple technology almost exclusively at home and as much as possible at work since 1999. I think Mac OS X is awesome, and the iPhone OS works… for the phone.
That being said, I can see what Apple is doing – they are moving from the phone to the tablet to the notebook to the desktop, and I’m sure that they think this wonderful new paradigm of computing that they are creating is the bee’s knees.
Well I don’t.
The iPad is going to be cool, but w/o multi-tasking, I’m going to pass. Once it has multi-tasking, I’ll buy, but until then, forget it. I am also concerned about document storage — how are we going to get to network shares to load Word/Excel docs? Time will tell on that one.
But when they move their “locked down at all 4 corners with a padlock, deadbolt and electricity fortified chain link fence” iPhone OS to the notebook, that is when I ditch Apple and go back to Windows. Nobody is going to tell me what software I can run on my own machine. The iPhone is bad enough! Apple’s “App Store” can blow me. Oh wait… that is too ‘adult’ for it… so never mind…
Like, who cares? Really?
If you want to run OSX then buy yourself a Mac.
You can try and grab yourself a copy of OSX86 and play with it, but don’t expect any sort of support or drivers… or even that it will work at all.
Wishing apple would release an OS for the rest of us (pun intended) so we could finally be free from “The Microsoft Tyranny” is a bit like hoping for Satan to free us from Stalin. (Hey! I dodged the infamous Hitler comparison!:D)
Apple has shown time and time again that their Insanely Great (pun intended) vision is one of total HW uniformity.
Nobody in their right minds wants such a thing.
Competition and open hardware standards made the IBM PC the universal computing platform for better or worse.
The only way to move forward is the adoption of open software standards, not closing down the hardware.
A notebook with ipad os… it’s just silly.
It’s like buying a Ferrari and hire someone else to drive it for you. You know, not being able to install stuff you want and all.
Plus, doesn’t the ipad os limit the number of simultaneous threads you can run at the same time? How the hell would i be able to… well… multitask?! Even Free-Dos has limited support for multitasking. In my book, that makes the ipod/ipad nothing more than ms-dos 6 with a shiny shell.
But it’s shiny, and I must concede that even the most brilliant minds often find their judgment clouded by shininess. Think Windows 2k/xp, or Linux/OSX. (flame on!
).
tldr: the ipad or ipod or idog os or whatever it’s just to limited for me, so no thanx.
On a side note, when did osnews ever become such an apple site? Pardon the expression, but it seems that now, whenever someone at cupertino farts, you hear it first on osnews!
For me, personally, apple stoped being interesting ever since they droped the PPC arch. I know audio pros that still swear by it.
As far as i’m concerned, there are OSs out there that are much more interesting than OSX, IMHO.
Stuff like Haiky, QNX, Minwin, Minix…
Whatever happend to SkyOS? Whatever happend to Gnustep?
I miss the days when osnews was kind of a big Be family.
I miss the days when osnews was kind of a big Be family.
Yeah, me too. But there are still big Be fans here. In fairness, Eugenia, Thom and the others have been pretty heavily involved in other OSes (development, testing, etc.) in the past and I think they very much appreciate ALL operating systems (like I do) for their merits, but also feel the need to compare and contrast capabilities and also policies and practices of the companies that create these operating systems.
Sometimes it seems a little soap-opera-ish, but good articles also appear (especially the not-copied-from-somewhere-else-but-actually-written-by-the-staff articles that at least provoke some thought, or controversy).
Why would I want an OS that’s not multitasking? Why do I want to reach out and put my fingers all over my monitor, even in a netbook form? Sorry….iPad = FAIL.
The iPad should be running OS X, not some iPhone OS.
Have not drank enough of the kool-aid to justify spending $500+ on an oversized ipod touch.
There are plenty of tablets running classic desktop OS. Nobody uses them.
I’ll buy iPad, because it DOESN’T use desktop OS.
I have 2 game consoles and I perfectly comfortable with single tasking model.
Yes! These are all tools that are designed to serve different purposes. I think the only issue with the iPad is that no one is quite sure if it does serve a different purpose… but I think it does, or WILL as it evolves. I think the ability to do some of the cool things my wife does with her iPhone (but larger for my aging eyes) plus book reading, and other POTENTIAL uses will shape up in the coming years.
Ha ha! Yeah, I never touch my screen, and I dread it when other people want to “show me something” on my computer because I KNOW they will casually reach out and touch my screen, leaving greasy little blobs all over it.
>Why would I want an OS that’s not multitasking?
The iphone has multitasking already. Its running a full blown copy of OSX Unix on there…duh. I have about 30 processes running on my iphone at the moment.
>The iPad should be running OS X
See above. It already is running OSX. Its just a different GUI toolkit.
An OS serves to translate between hardware, software, and the user. An iP* is a hand-held touchscreen device. A laptop isn’t. Many of the GUI conventions wouldn’t translate into anything most people would want to use. Software would also have to accommodate the different input devices, screen size, and differing hardware features.
So if the OS was just ported then it’d suck. If the OS was ported and tweaked to the point it was usable, then it’d be a new OS. No clue if such an OS would be any good, the implementation of said tweaks would be a crucial factor. If they get that right then it might be, but it’s got too many variables to know for sure.
Personally, I think a combination of iPhone OS as a low power quick boot and then full OS X as a main OS would be a great way to go for a netbook class machine…
I think there’s a distinct difference between a desktop or laptop PC, vs a “consumer device” (eg a gadget) for most people.
The expectation currently exists that PCs ought to do anything I tell them to, run anything I tell them to run, install anything I want them to install, and to be open to non-approved software development.
Similar expectations have not been set for things like phones and portable media devices, set-top boxes, game consoles, and other traditionally closed devices.
The typical consumer is willing to accept this, and from their perspective, things are more open now than they have ever been on these devices — anyone with a Mac, and some time and know-how can create an iPhone App, after all; approval process notwithstanding.
I think the AppStore model will continue to satisfy typical consumers for devices which fit into traditionally-closed categories, or sufficiently novel categories (eg iPad) simply because there is no incumbant expectation to be overcome.
If they dare try to produce anything which looks too much like a traditionally open category, say a laptop or desktop PC, then the consumer begins to realize that capabilities are being taken away from them, which tends to upset them.
AppleTV is the most likely target for a device moving closer to iPhoneOS-land. It’s already closed, runs a stripped-down version of OS-X, and currently runs on hardware that’s rather over-powered for what it’s intended role is. I’m sure Apple would love to toss an ARM-based SOC with moderate 3D capabilities and video decode in there. It’d probably save them 50% or more on materials and manufacturing, so they could reduce the price and pad out their margins at the same time quite comfortably.
Add in bluTooth and some wireless controllers and you’ve got a capable (though relatively low-end by todays standards — maybe comparable to a Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube or original XBox) game machine, lots of developers ready to port their iPhone Apps, and no need to compete with the big three for shelf-space at wal-mart. Gaming has really been driving the AppStore, and as obblivious as Apple has been in the past about the impact of gaming on their bottom line, I’d be willing to bet that they’ve come around on that topic.
no i would rather buy something with linux
Ugh…no thanks…not under ANY circumstances.
If they added multitasking, USB and SD slots, and a web cam, then yes, I’d probably buy one. As it stands now, definitely not.
no one IMO would like to work for/with apple. Ah.. if they open source if might get some attention.
iPad applications, with their larger resolutions will make them more appropriate for desktop computer and laptop usage. The app store is Apple’s preferred mode of software distribution which they would love to leverage for financial gain.
I would not be surprised if Apple created an iPad emulator for MacOSX. It would be a virtualised iPad. Assuming the A1 processor is ARM based, you would think this may pose difficulties. However, when you consider that the iPad OS has its roots in MacOSX, re-routing to MacOSX native calls may provide significant speed up. This emulation may be fully integrated, perhaps with the ability to launch multiple iPad apps in their own windows or full screen. It is not as though Apple is new to emulation having utilised it with their pre MacOSX classic apps.
Slowly, over time, this could become an established and accepted part of the MacOSX application ecosystem. You would still be able to install MacOSX native apps, but software developers may slowly shift their preferences and support the iPad model for their own reasons, such as greater distribution.
Then one wonders why you would stop at providing only MacOSX with iPad emulation. Why not create such an iPAD emulator for Windows. It’s all about Apple making money off the applications after all. Windows just becomes a bootloader and then you would use virtualised iPad applications. I could finally let my Grandma touch my PC, when it launches straight into iPad mode. It makes more sense than porting MacOSX to non Apple hardware, because Apple makes money off all the apps. Do not be surprised if one day your iTunes update gives you an iPad emulator on your Windows PC.
The title says it all. But hell, no.
In short, yes, I would be put off.
But, you have to admit, if they want to change how the general OS works (pushing it towards this restrictive characteristic), it’s a good way to start “small”, on devices that everyone seems to accept how it works, then, when you build enough momentum, push it upwards, till finally you achieve what you want.
Of course, there would be people who’d be put off by this model, yet there’s always a large enough audience to satisfy sales expectations, whatever way they might turn.
When you need a rock in the computer world, there’s Ubuntu. Now how on earth do I organise my GPS photos on linux? ;-(
no. i don’t think i would. i already have an android phone. and a cheap laptop for trips. my computer resumes from sleep mode in seconds, theres no need for an ipad.
however i would buy something like the microsoft courier, to replace the cheap laptop. but really i dont even need that.
No way. There is no way I would buy anything from Apple (except a keyboard, which I thought long and hard over) as long as they continue their current policy of control, lockin and censorship. Think about it:
The OS does multi tasking. Not for any apps but Apple ones however.
It will run lots of apps. But the only place you can buy them is the apple store.
Most people let you buy apps however you want. These apps you can only buy using the horrible iTunes.
The apps are getting censored by the content they give access to. Like, you will not use apps which let you look at people in swimsuits. Never mind that you can go to the beach or the pool and stare at them all day. You will not use apps which allow you to access the Kama Sutra. Never mind it has been on sale for all of our lifetimes. What about Lady Chatterly? Maybe they should ban that too? Or what about the writings of Marx? Or Houston Steward Chamberlain? Or maybe this week we take a dislike to Malcom Lowry? Or the New York Times? Or the Economist? Or the Spectator or New Republic?
It won’t run Flash. Not because it cannot, but because one Steve Jobs doesn’t feel like it.
Forget it. If I want to live under Eastern European paternalism circa 1962, I’ll move to Kazakhstan. I don’t have to deal with it right here in a liberal democracy, having some tinpot corporation telling me what to read and how to think!
“Computerworld specifically speculates that the iPhone OS might one day power MacBook Air-like laptops. Such a laptop would be powered by Apple’s custom silicon (like the iPad). Computerworld goes a few steps further even, arguing that low-end Macs, like the Mac Mini and MacBook, would follow suit.”
I love OS X. Some even consider me a bit of an Apple fanboy, even though there was a time between Macs when I was a contented OpenSUSE user. When my PC croaked, I went back to OS X because, in my opinion, it is still a simpler and more elegant OS for the end user. Again, that is only my opinion.
Personally, I would not want an iPhone OS on a full fledged laptop. I can understand this type of thing on an iPad (more or less) but not on my main computer. If this were to happen, I would most likely go back to using a Linux distro. I’ve tried Ubuntu on my friend’s computer and rather liked it. So who knows…
Of course hardly anyone visiting this site would by a laptop powered by iPhoneOS. But we’re not the market Apple would be targeting with such a computer (if indeed if ever made such a one). So your question, Thom, and everyone’s answers here, are irrelevant.
There’s absolutely no mention to “laptop” in the Apple’s job opportunity.
iPhone OS (AFAIK) is only available with “multi-touch” UI so I don’t understand how the OS (and Touch apps) would use a laptop mouse/trackpad…
A ARM based laptop will have trouble to compete (performance wise) with core ix processors based laptops.
From my point of view Mac OS X is for “regular” Apple desktop/laptop (keyboard/mouse/trackpad driven) and iPhone OS is for Apple embedded, ressources limited, multi-touch devices…
Am I missing something ?
Reading previous comments I get the impression that the only reason for buying a laptop is so that one could write software for it, port some variant of Linux to it, or buy software from any source.
These may be important reasons for purchasing a piece of computer equipment, but they are hardly reasons to write off some piece of gear.
Granted, in this forum most respondents are FOSS developers/promoters and those features listed above are very important.
For me, however, there are lots of “laptops” that solve the aforementioned problems. Lots of laptops that have Flash, let me multitask 3rd party apps, let me buy software from unregulated sources, (put your favorite iPad/iPhone OS criticism here).
Me? I’d like to see if that “iPhone OS laptop” solves some problem I have before I make a decision to split with my hard-earned dollars for it. Perhaps it does something so great that I don’t really care if I can’t run some OSNews Hacker’s software on it. Perhaps, like the iPad, I wouldn’t be buying it in order to be my only computer, but to complement the equipment I already own. I personally own several Mac laptaps (going back to the G3 days) and I certainly plan on buying an iPad because IT SOLVES SOME PROBLEMS I CURRENTLY HAVE WITH LAPTOPS. If a new iPhone OS-based laptop offered some advantages over my current 17″ MacBook Pro, I’d certainly consider buying one. That doesn’t mean I’d give up Mac OS X (and Windows) on my MacBook and use that new laptop exclusively, but I certainly wouldn’t ignore the new laptop just because it’s an overgrown iPad.
It’s always a question of using the right tool for the job. If the new laptop had some compelling features, yeah, I’d buy one.
I think you are right, more or less, with many of your points.
I have a netbook for traveling to/from work (I frequently take the train and the train ride takes 3 days). It is simply meant to do some simple code editing, but it will actually run JBOSS, compiles my java code and I can even run some of my steam games on it.
When I am at home I never touch the thing. It serves a purpose. Fills a niche need.
I am considering the iPad… I think I will wait for the second iteration (see what Apple adds to it to generate more interest) …mostly because I actually love my wife’s iPhone (I even consider getting one myself – but I actually like the idea of a larger form factor – hence my interest in the iPad).
There are one or two other capabilities I would want (like a camera for skype conversations) and am actually very interested in the book store concept.
If Apple shifted the iPhone OS to a netbook-like form factor I would guess that they will modify it to be of more use in that form and if so, and if it met my needs, I would buy it.
The OS limitations are bad enough on a mobile device, and they don’t even belong a larger device that can accommodate more hd/battery/peripheral space. No thanks.
In fact, does someone have a Nokia brick phone they’d like to trade me for my 1st Gen iPhone?
Personal opinion – the answer is No.
The main reason is the latch. I don’t own anything like that, I mean, I can install applications with no limits. Second, Apple’s products are way too overpriced here in Europe. I can get two other machines with the same specs, for the same money, install FreeBSD with KDE 4.4 on each one of them, and I’ll be more happy than having an Apple. No locks, just freedom to explore. iPad and iPhone simply don’t fit in my lifestyle, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad.
Coming from a developer’s point of view and needing to use a pc for various activities (development, gaming, multimedia) why would I ever want to limit myself to the One Application at a time philosophy….it doesn’t make any sense, multiple core processors and even quad cores are mainstream at this point in time, we don’t need to regress and go back to this “my computer can only handle one application”…we need to advance multi threading and multi-task processing before we ever go back to this model. I personally do not like Apple as a company nor their direction. OSX is a very nice OS and is great for multi-tasking. I hope apple does go this route and burns for it, they already made a new product the world doesn’t want (except for the fan boys), and have left us in a position where computing is considered an on the go thing. I will never trade in my desktop with 3 monitors for an Ipad or any device like it in the future. I would rather use Windows….
I already have an iphone OS powered laptop.
Its called a MACBOOK.
It runs the SAME OS AS the IPHONE….MacOS.
The iPhone is running a full blown copy of Mac OSX Unix running on there already after all.
My-iPhone:~ root# uname -a
Darwin My-iPhone 10.0.0d3 Darwin Kernel Version 10.0.0d3: Fri Sep 25 23:35:35 PDT 2009; root:xnu-1357.5.30~3/RELEASE_ARM_S5L8920X iPhone2,1 arm N88AP Darwin
They both have all the power of a full copy of Unix, so anyone that tells you that the iphone does not ‘multitask’ is not telling the truth. The iphone has 20-30 processes multitasking on it at anyone time, its just the gui does not let you have more than one user program open at at a time. It has nothing to do with the OS abilities.
The only different between a macbook and an iphone(other than processor types) is they just happen to run different GUI toolkits is the only difference.
Edited 2010-02-25 16:01 UTC
Anybody here read a little book called, oh, I don’t know—The Time Machine? Humanity splits into two distinct branches, one absolutely stupid and beautiful (hmm…), the other hideous and frighteningly clever. Sounds like iPhone OS vs. Mac OS X?
Well, I don’t think it’ll work out that way. People complain about not having the freedom to put what software they want on an iPad, but what exactly is that software, I dare to ask? Most App store stuff is legit and usable—even popular Mac OS X freeware is starting to pop up there in app form. The only things I’ve heard people complain about being removed from the App store are adult apps, and is that really a bad thing? Apple has a right to choose its audience.
Personally, I do think that Apple will go a more absolute path, creating some very definite lines between user, power user, and enterprise/production. If the iPhone OS is going to be aimed at the user, it’ll need a few more OS X features before the general public accepts it. Apple knows that, but they’re not quite ready to move wholeheartedly in that direction yet. Hence, the fact that the MacBook White still exists.
Everybody has criticized Apple for every move they make… five years later, they’re using it and loving it and don’t know how they lived without it. The iPad will be like that, just wait and see.