A new PDF-based magazine is available, regarding NEXTSTEP and OpenStep. You can find information ahbout X11 under NeXT, how to run OpenStep under VMWare, a Rhapsody FAQ and how to run it on VPC and more. This coming week await an introduction article to the NeXT universe, here, at OSNews.
NeXTZine Issue 1 Available as PDF
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
the entire world could have possibly been using it right now. Basically – nearly all the “new” features seen in OS X were in existence back in 1990 when NEXTStep was around.
How sad that the best technology does not always win. (normally what wins is the cheapest solution … not the best nessacarly)
I know that Apple bought NeXT, but to confuse NeXT with MacOSX is silly, although MacOSX claims to borrow things from NeXT, there is a very big difference: performance. I never use a NeXT [on the Cube or the Turbocolor] and remember it being slughish, such as MacOSX is.
Think about NeXT was running on 68030 and 68040 [25MHz and 30MHz]. Look what great PPPC hardware MacOSX runs on and how slugish it is. Really NeXT is a lean mean implementation, but MacOSX fails to live up to that. Next was way ahead of its time, a truly great OS. However MacOSX is bloated considering the fast hardware and how bad it performs. Just my 2 cents.
Is true that with every release MacoSX gets a bit better on speed, but it is still slugish compared with NeXT, AmigaOS, BeOS, Linux, OS/2 Warp and even Windows XP. Not to mention the Unices: AIX, HP-UX, BSD and FreeBSD. Apple claims BSD and Next as the seed, but it has grown into one ugly bloated ware. It is possible to take a good OS and screwed, Apple has shown that with MacOSX. It looks good, but it performs poorly. From the Power Computing [high end] market poitn of view, think Irix, Tru64, etc.
Indeed. Great OS. Steve Jobs killed it with the price. If history is to repeat itelf maybe Steve will kill Apple with too high prices too.
For example, Steve claims that a $3000 computer [G5] its a good deal. They compare the machine to the price of a G4 to imply that you get more for less. But we can said that about very old computers, they cost more.
This is a myth, really. Why? Introducing a $3,000.00 computer when the markat HAS change, and PC cost around 300 dollars, is a way of killing Apple with exorbitant prices.
Next were very powerful but few people could afford them. Now I am sure the G5 are powerfull, although bundled with a bloated 32bit MacOSX, but again in the current market considering what an AVERAGE computer cost, Apple is shooting its own foot again.
Granted there will be die hard suckers buying them, saying to themselves that is a bargain, but the consumer in general ain’t that stupid.
I know that Apple bought NeXT, but to confuse NeXT with MacOSX is silly, although MacOSX claims to borrow things from NeXT, there is a very big difference: performance. I never use a NeXT [on the Cube or the Turbocolor] and remember it being slughish, such as MacOSX is.
I couln’t have said it any better myself- Apple was in a hurry to have a Windows 95 competitor resulting in them rushing the development of OS X. Then on top of rushing the development of the OS, they also released it WAY to early. 10.1 was a HUGE upgrade – and was trying to fix what was already released. From what I have heard, the single most significant downturn to the performance of OS X was that 10.0 release because since then, they have not been able to significantly improve the OS X b/c they don’t want to break compatiability. Just another dumb business decision by Steve Jobs who also got paid about $110 Million last year (they whole $1.00 a year is BS)
You really compare the G5 with an ordinary 300$ PC???
So you get an Intel/AMD 64Bit dual cpu system for 300$??
Show me where and I buy ten of them!
*lol* go and read the specs!
I’ve always wondered what NextStep used to look like. It’s great to see it live on in it’s current incarnation(Mac OS X).
Good solid foundation + Apple innovation = Win win situation for consumers.
<rant>
I guess imbeciles(aka Fanboys) are never going to find out how great the Mac OS X experience is. They are to busy emptying their wallets buying SUVs. *sigh*
</rant>
BTW: I can’t wait to get my hands on a G5.
statement:
>Apple was in a hurry to have a Windows 95 competitor resulting in
>them rushing the development of OS X
What a nonsence! Apple was in a hurry not to die in the late ’90. They need a new OS because of the copeland disaster and their good old OS Mac OS 7/8/9 was far behind end of life.
“You really compare the G5 with an ordinary 300$ PC???
So you get an Intel/AMD 64Bit dual cpu system for 300$??
Show me where and I buy ten of them!
*lol* go and read the specs!”
Er, you are missing the point, I didn’t said that a $3000.00 computer has the same specs as a $300 computer of a different architecture. But the consumer that needs a WP, Office suit, regular computer is not going to read the spec or think that they need a $3000.00 to do WPing.
The point is what is the average computer market prices, $30000 is exhorbitant regardless of how powerfull the HW is. Add to that the sloow MacOSX 32bit OS running on 64bit HW, and you got a ripoff that people will see through. Unless they are die hard Maczealots, they will buy anyway.
You think a college student searching for a PC for his undergrad stuidies is going to waste 3K on a dual G5? Not likeley. High prices “COULD” kill Apple just like it killed NeXT, at least admit that such is a possibility.
This argument of comparing specs, will not be bought by a regular consumer, they usually buy what’s cheaper that does the job. Worst, Apple are less compatible with software [Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP] and they have less peripherials available to them. Plus you can rarely buy Apple products off the shelves on most regular stores. Mail order is usually the way to go with Apple, that is a fact. CompUSA is an exception to this. But major retailers that sell PC do not sell Apple, that is a fact.
…whether he kills Apple or not. His only motivation is control, just like Bill Gates. Any statements they make about being motivated to produce the best new technology are instantly negated by reality (the products). Not that most people notice.
I’m with the “Max OS X is slow” camp.
” I couln’t have said it any better myself- Apple was in a hurry to have a Windows 95 competitor resulting in them rushing the development of OS X. Then on top of rushing the development of the OS, they also released it WAY to early. 10.1 was a HUGE upgrade – and was trying to fix what was already released. From what I have heard, the single most significant downturn to the performance of OS X was that 10.0 release because since then, they have not been able to significantly improve the OS X b/c they don’t want to break compatiability. Just another dumb business decision by Steve Jobs who also got paid about $110 Million last year (they whole $1.00 a year is BS)”
I completly agree with you. But I see it as more than rushing, from a consumer savvy point of view, I see Apple pushing substandard incomplete SW and suckering their userbase for half baked products. Can MacOSX be done right? Yes, but it might take years down the road, in the mean time people are paying for bloatware. Granted Appla fanatics won’t admit this, and yet they do not see that their blind Apple fanatism is what keeps them from sending a message to Apple to bring back the high quality that we saw on NeXT, instead of becoming more and more like M$.
Since Steve took over Apple, the company looks more and more like a M$ clone. Unfortunetly. The computing world is divided between Gates and Jobs, and to an extent in the way they have hurt the computer market, they are like Hitler and Mussolini in the 40’s. A big dictater and a smaller one.
I like NeXT, I use to like Apple. If I see Apple putting out NeXT qualityproducts at CURRENT MARKET prices, I’ll buyone. Until then I will continue to exhort the userbase to send a clear message. Wait on buying G5, wait for a mature prodect, Then buy. Be wise with your money, and set a higher standard for the Computer industry. When SW efficiency keeps going in down fall, it is not a good trend. We already have very impressive HW on many fronts, but the OS’s at times are a joke. Apple concentrates on eye candy, because they figure is more visible when you put out a revision to have a new theme, whatever, but the consumer is not as dumb as Apple thinks they are, if Apple put solid OS out there, it will be noticed. I got many friends [Unix guys] who bought a MacOSX when it came out, only to be dissapointed with the bloated ware. Its gotten better soem say, well not good enough yet.
@
<<<The point is what is the average computer market prices, $30000 is exhorbitant regardless of how powerfull the HW is. Add to that the sloow MacOSX 32bit OS running on 64bit HW, and you got a ripoff that people will see through. Unless they are die hard Maczealots, they will buy anyway.>>>
Tell that to the dumb Windows Fanboys. Windows 3.1/95 got suckered into buying such an inferior os (16-bit then half16/32bits running on fully 32bits CPUs). Dumb winblows zealots. Especially when Microsoft had super solid os (Xenix and OS/2) they just sent that garbage known as Winblows to the next sucker in line! lol!!!
The you got people who bought PCs instead of Macs. How stupid can you get? Plug and Pray anyone? They are so dumb they wasted hours and hours fixing up their hosed installations while the rest of the world didn’t have to reinstall twice a year or reboot twice a day. Christ, Commodore 64 computers were more solid than Wintels! lol!!!
“What a nonsence! Apple was in a hurry not to die in the late ’90. They need a new OS because of the copeland disaster and their good old OS Mac OS 7/8/9 was far behind end of life.”
I am sorry to say, but this is another sign of fanatism.
How come Maczealots only admit to Apple weak poitns only after a new product is announced? G4 were great a few months ago, but now some admit they were not that great because we will get G5!
This promotes mindless consumerism, that is buy buy buy, because whatever Apple puts out is better and is the answer to all your needs. Needs that are not admitted before the new product is announce. A bit more honesty wouldn’t hurt here.
I am sure when G6 is announce, you will come clean with the G5 limitations and shortcommings.
> Think about NeXT was running on 68030 and 68040 [25MHz and 30MHz]. Look what great PPPC hardware MacOSX runs on and how slugish it is.
Sorry, but this is not true. I have OpenStep 4.2 here on a NeXTStation Color Turbo 33 Mhz, and the OS is slow. About as slow as MacOSX is on a G4 500 Mhz, maybe even more.
And while the NeXT OS could run on faster machines later, like Intel P200s etc, the NeXT black hardware itself was slow.
Mistik,
I think everyone understands that you don’t like anything about Apple. Why don’t you go troll somewhere else and stop making so many false and innacurate comments.
<quote>
Er, you are missing the point, I didn’t said that a $3000.00 computer has the same specs as a $300 computer of a different architecture. But the consumer that needs a WP, Office suit, regular computer is not going to read the spec or think that they need a $3000.00 to do WPing.
———————-
Thanks for pointing out to us that the average computer user doesn’t need a 3k machine. How about an eMac?
———————-
The point is what is the average computer market prices, $30000 is exhorbitant regardless of how powerfull the HW is. Add to that the sloow MacOSX 32bit OS running on 64bit HW, and you got a ripoff that people will see through.
——————-
So Apple has given you a final release of Panther and a G5 to test? Give us some benchmarks to back up your claims.
——————-
You think a college student searching for a PC for his undergrad stuidies is going to waste 3K on a dual G5? Not likeley. High prices “COULD” kill Apple just like it killed NeXT, at least admit that such is a possibility.
————————–
Maybe you have heard of the iMac, eMac or iBook?
————————–
This argument of comparing specs, will not be bought by a regular consumer, they usually buy what’s cheaper that does the job. Worst, Apple are less compatible with software [Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP] and they have less peripherials available to them.
—————————
Less compatible with what? and what periphals can you not buy for the Mac? I would like to see a list…..
—————————
Plus you can rarely buy Apple products off the shelves on most regular stores. Mail order is usually the way to go with Apple, that is a fact. CompUSA is an exception to this. But major retailers that sell PC do not sell Apple, that is a fact.
————————–
Wow, you have actually said something that is true and factual…novel idea. There are quite a few Apple resellers and don’t forget Apple’s new stores.
————————–
“Sorry, but this is not true. I have OpenStep 4.2 here on a NeXTStation Color Turbo 33 Mhz, and the OS is slow. About as slow as MacOSX is on a G4 500 Mhz, maybe even more. ”
Heheh. You just made my point. Think about it, if NeXT OS running on a 33 MHz CPU feels as slow as MacOSX running on a G4 500MHz cpu. LOL Then MacOSX is a HUGE waste of that advance hardware, and ergo VERY BLOATED.
Thanks for making my point. There is nothing like honesty and experience.
You all say OS X is slow. OK – I use OS X since 10.1 on a daily basis on diffrerent Hardware:
– Dual G4 1GHz (Powermac)
– 450MHz G4 (Powermac)
– 1GHz G4 (iMac)
– 667MHz G4 (Powerbook)
Can you thell me on what base you have used OS X (10.2)? Where do you think it is slow? What Software do you use that feels slow? Is ist just scrolling/resizing speed – a.k.a “Eugenia’s OS X problem” ? 😉 (Just kidding)
Did you see the WWDC Keynote?
Did you see Steve resizing the new Finder? is that slow in your point of view?
Did you see the scrolling through the 980 pages pdf-spec via Preview – was it slow?
Did you see “fast user switching” and “expose”? Pretty slow ha?
Don’t get me wrong, I am using computers since the early ’80 (the Commodore PET days), I used/use Atari, Amiga, PC (8088-PIII) with many OSes (DOS/WIN all of them/BeOS/Linux/ONX). Nowadays I am a software developer for a world-leading software company doing Web and host (Java on IBM AIX) development, you see I know a little bit about IT. Privately I use Macs since 2001 – I am a kind of an “early switcher”. One reason: Mac OS X! I hadn’t never bourght a Mac with OS 9.
But if you tell me OS X is slow without where and what you are doing – I beleave the your point is trolling – not more, not less.
Sorry for that – but that has to be said.
“Thanks for pointing out to us that the average computer user doesn’t need a 3k machine. How about an eMac? ”
Does the eMac cost $300? Even if it did, it does not have as many Apps availabel, and cannot use as many peripherials, nor can it be expanded as a PC. Its a fact that the consumer will not overlook.
Can you please email me privately? I need to discuss something with you.
“Think about NeXT was running on 68030 and 68040 [25MHz and 30MHz]. Look what great PPPC hardware MacOSX runs on and how slugish it is.”
Sluggish? Not anymore with panther.
“Really NeXT is a lean mean implementation, but MacOSX fails to live up to that.”
Sure it does. Why would you say that?
<i.”Next was way ahead of its time, a truly great OS.”[/i]
The company was named NeXT. The operating system was named NeXTSTEP.
“However MacOSX is bloated considering the fast hardware and how bad it performs. Just my 2 cents.”
Bloated? How do you figure? Jaguar runs very fast.
“Apple claims BSD and Next as the seed, but it has grown into one ugly bloated ware. It is possible to take a good OS and screwed, Apple has shown that with MacOSX.”
But OS X is not bloated. I don;t know where you get that.
“It looks good, but it performs poorly.”
I disagree wholeheartedly. OS X is a great performer assuming your at least using jaguar.
ok, some people dont like os x. fine. os x users defend. fine. that does not make them zealots!
fact is, mac users like macs because they are different. they are easier to use IMHO, and there is a strong community that isnt as freakish as the linux group.
everyone has a different camp and thats fine. but when you come back with ignorant comments calling people zealots and what not, yes you will strike emotions. people will “fight”.
i dropped the linux camp because it was too ugly for me to use. i dropped windows because i liked the power of a good terminal environment. i went mac beacuse it did everything i needed a computer to do, and it did it easily. plus i had a command line to play with.
and you know what? now i really like the hardware. i dont want to have to upgrade it every year. and my machine looks good. it my choice. i like it.
i’m not going to spout performance points. all i’ll say is my g3 (yes g-THREE) imac with os x is fast enough for me to do my app development and web dev, play the occasional game, and whatever else i do without any hassle.
the real attraction is that all my hardware works flawlessly with all the apps and i love it! i built my $400 pc and it was ok. not perfect, but ok. sometimes things just didnt work. thats the difference. and it means a lot to all of us mac-“zealots.”
i get frustrated by some of the comments mac and pc users fight about, but all the mac users have to say is “my stuff works. always has.” and they have a point 9 times out of 10. but you pc-only people dont understand. i didnt understand until i converted. shit breaks a lot on the pcs and you dont know it because it becomes standard use. switch for a while. you will probably see.
not everyone will agree. thats fine. i was windows since 3.1 through xp and linux from red hat 6ish through gentoo 4 months ago. i’ve got frame of reference. macs work. they work well. and they are just as fast as your pcs that arent as nice. its true. deal.
Thanks for the link Eugenia. Interesting reading.
Now, as far as the reponses go, WTF! They quickly sank into “Job’s RDF/Mac users are sheep/OS 10 (and HW) is teh, so slow…” Yeah, I know these are not exact quotes.
I’m a Mandrake/Debian/soon to be OS 10.2 user by choice and a Windows XP/98SE user by neccessity. Why all the bad vibes toward Apple. Job’s come over to your house and burn down the garage? I admit, I get a chuckle over all the bashing.
Get this folks, an earlier contributor, based on his own experiences said that to him:
MacOSX running on 500 Mhz G4 feels as slow as NeXT on a 33 MHz CPU!
SO we can conclude that MacOSX performance on a G4 is about that of a 10 years old computer. Great performance for the price, eh?
In other words MacOSX slows down a 500Mhz G4 to a 68040 (33Mhz) performance level. ouch.
I wonder what will 32bit Panther will slow down the dual G5 to? Single PPC 601 perhaps? Time will tell.
The Mac people always claim that Macs are not overpriced. I think they are right. Think about it: What do you really buy if you buy a Mac? Just some XGhz computer? No.
You buy the whole Apple. You pay for everything Apple does: development of OSX, development of the iApps, general R&D, etc. etc.
Macs are terrible overpriced if you just look at the hardware but really you buy much more than that (if you want to or not) if you buy a Mac.
Wintel still totally owns the desktop market and Macs will never changed that STRICTLY BECAUSE OF THE PRICE. Maybe every single Mac is worth its extreme price. But 90% of the home user market just won’t pay thousands of dollars for a PC. The cooperate market is not that different either.
They will of course pay 3000$ or more for a workstation like the new high-end Macs. But over 90% of the cooperate desktops are just “email/wordprocessor/groupware/etc.”-stations, not workstations. And for those sensible businesses will never buy the expensive Mac machines.
Of course Apple doesn’t want to get dirty with “ordinary people” or white-box business either.
I think this is very clear. Jobs really tries to gain market share in the high-end market but doesn’t give a shit about the low-end.
With the current price Apple will never get out of its ghetto and that’s what Stevie wants of course.
It’s really sad but because of this the only hope for breaking the MS monopoly is Linux (and I don’t like that OS much).
“If history is to repeat itelf maybe Steve will kill Apple with too high prices too.”
Thankfully, Apple’s prices are very competative.
“For example, Steve claims that a $3000 computer [G5] its a good deal.”
As in fact it surely is.
“They compare the machine to the price of a G4 to imply that you get more for less. But we can said that about very old computers, they cost more.”
But the G4 isn;t a very old computer. He was comparing it to the most recent G4.
“Introducing a $3,000.00 computer when the markat HAS change, and PC cost around 300 dollars, is a way of killing Apple with exorbitant prices.”
You can’t get a dual XEON for $300?! Your claim is outrageous.
“I am sure the G5 are powerfull, although bundled with a bloated 32bit MacOSX”
What? OS X isn’t bloated at all. Although jaguar only runs 32 bit applications, I’m thankful that Panther will be able to run both 32 AND 64 bit applications at full speed.
“but again in the current market considering what an AVERAGE computer cost, Apple is shooting its own foot again.”
How so? Apple sells many computers all of which are priced very competatively.
“Granted there will be die hard suckers buying them”
Why would you say that?
“saying to themselves that is a bargain”
It most certainly is when you compare them to a PC of exact specs
“but the consumer in general ain’t that stupid.”
They’re not stupid so they wont be able to see that they’re priced competatively? I don;t see your logic.
“From what I have heard, the single most significant downturn to the performance of OS X was that 10.0 release because since then, they have not been able to significantly improve the OS X b/c they don’t want to break compatiability.”
First, Jaguar is makes the speed issues of previous releases a non issue. Second, they ARE in fact breaking compatibility with the old <OS9 apps slowly but surely. First it was by making OS X primarily boot into OS X rather than 9. Next, it was making OS X not be able to dual boot. Next it will be removing the OS 9 compatibility layer altogether.
Just to let everyone know, and prepare yourselves.
When on Tuesday we will publish our NeXT article, no comment trolling on OSX Vs Nextstep will be allowed to go public. This is off topic, it is only a very small part of the NeXT history that it should be discussed in these forums. Instead we have a few trolls here who PUT FIRES and START FLAMEWARS instead.
Please read our posting rules, we say about not starting flamewars by putting baits.
I will not allow any such comment to go live on Tuesday. It will get deleted (not even moderated down) on our backend before anyone sees it online.
Talk about NeXT. Talk about the advancements of the OS. Talk about the company, talk about the history. Talk A BIT about how MacOSX still resembles Nextstep. BUT DON’T TURN IT INTO A FLAMEWAR of Apple vs PC or Next vs OSX and make it the main theme of the commenting section. It is NOT FAIR. Neither for the NeXT legacy, neither for the story, neither for ME who spent 5 hours up to 2:30 AM writing the article that will go live on Tuesday.
“Mistik jogelour” I am very dissapointed by your comments the last 1-2 weeks over here. EVERY TIME we have an Apple story, you will rush yourself to START a FLAMEWAR. WE DON’T care what you think, you know. We already have READ what you think about Apple. STOP bringing up the same old story on any Apple-related story we run here. It is not fair for us, it is tiring for our readers. We are not slashdot over here. Please go elsewhere and troll, or PLEASE write your comments in a way that it is NOT trollish and FLAME *BAIT*. Your commetns read like that you start “fires” waiting to piss people off and then start a party around it. It is really not nice. Please behave.
“Mistik jogelour” I am very dissapointed by your comments the last 1-2 weeks over here. EVERY TIME we have an Apple story, you will rush yourself to START a FLAMEWAR. WE DON’T care what you think, you know. We already have READ what you think about Apple. STOP bringing up the same old story on any Apple-related story we run here. It is not fair for us, it is tiring for our readers. We are not slashdot over here. Please go elsewhere and troll, or PLEASE write your comments in a way that it is NOT trollish and FLAME *BAIT*. Your commetns read like that you start “fires” waiting to piss people off and then start a party around it. It is really not nice. Please behave.”
Sorry about the confusion, but you posted a NeXT news but used the X symbol that you use for MacOSX. Naturally I tought the comparision was intented. But I see that it wasn’t. I am not flame baiting.
Is it my fault that “none” can state that ,ei., Macs are expensive, without getting insults and propaganda?
Is it unfair to compare the leaness of NeXT [a great OS] with the sluguishness of MacOSX?
I thought the forum was about OSes, not about OSes in boxes, were no comparisions or comments are allowed. Maybe that should be specified in the terms.
Then this should be a free flowing propaganda forum I guess.
>Sorry about the confusion, but you posted a NeXT news but used the X symbol that you use for MacOSX.
Yes, because they are similar. But they are not the same. I use the BeOS icon for OpenBeOS and BlueyedOS too, but they are not BeOS either.
“I didn’t said that a $3000.00 computer has the same specs as a $300 computer of a different architecture. But the consumer that needs a WP, Office suit, regular computer is not going to read the spec or think that they need a $3000.00 to do WPing.”
Who ever said they would buy a $3000? How would releasing an ultra high end computer be Apple shooting itself in the foot? Is Compaq shooting itself in the Foot for making a dual XEON? I don’t understand your logic.
“The point is what is the average computer market prices, $30000 is exhorbitant regardless of how powerfull the HW is.”
What computer costs 30,000?! That’s outrageous!
Apple’s $3,000 computer however is an incredible bargain when you consider that an equally spec’d PC would cost you approximately >$4000
“Add to that the sloow MacOSX”
What?! OS X is not slow. It may have been sluggish in earlier versions but jaguar isn’t slow or sluggish.
“32bit OS running on 64bit HW”
Apple’s current OS is 32 bit. Thankfully, when Panther is released it will be able to take FULL advantage of all 64 bit applications.
“and you got a ripoff that people will see through.”
What?! What rip off is that?
“Unless they are die hard Maczealots, they will buy anyway.”
I’m sure the Maczealots will buy them as well as individals wanting to take advantage of the increased speed that the G5 will bring.
“You think a college student searching for a PC for his undergrad stuidies is going to waste 3K on a dual G5? Not likeley.”
Thankfully, Apple has several other computers that are all priced very competatively.
“High prices “COULD” kill Apple just like it killed NeXT”
They certinly could… the same way they could kill any company. Thankfully, Apple’s prices are very competative.
“This argument of comparing specs, will not be bought by a regular consumer, they usually buy what’s cheaper that does the job.”
Thankfully a Mac is not more expensive than a PC with the same specs.
“Worst, Apple are less compatible with software [Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP] and they have less peripherials available to them.”
And yet Mac users (for the most part) have all the software and hardware they need available to them should they feel compelled to buy it.
“Plus you can rarely buy Apple products off the shelves on most regular stores. Mail order is usually the way to go with Apple, that is a fact.”
So.
“CompUSA is an exception to this. But major retailers that sell PC do not sell Apple, that is a fact.”
Some do. Some don’t. For example… I buy my mac hardware and software from Fry’s electronics. They have a great mac selection.
“Yes, because they are similar. But they are not the same. I use the BeOS icon for OpenBeOS and BlueyedOS too, but they are not BeOS either.”
Well, I apologize for the confusion. I can admit when I am wrong.
hu? ha? What has your post to do with mine??
…think you have confused the subject lines…
Sorry for being off-topic (again)
NeXT was a great OS, very fast, considering the Hardware that it ran on. Some Modern OSes can’t come close to this, as they are bloated and bug down.
As a former NeXT user, what are my options today? Is there an OS, that provides a similar experience? Or NeXT user mainly stick to the old hardware?
I have try many OSes, some that are even suppose to be based on NeXT, but they do not deliver the NeXT promise. NeXT look good but it was not bugged down by looks. I feel that current maintstream offering are a poor use of the excellent hardware at hand. (trying)
“I didn’t said that a $3000.00 computer has the same specs as a $300 computer of a different architecture. But the consumer that needs a WP, Office suit, regular computer is not going to read the spec or think that they need a $3000.00 to do WPing.”
Who ever said they would buy a $3000? How would releasing an ultra high end computer be Apple shooting itself in the foot? Is Compaq shooting itself in the Foot for making a dual XEON? I don’t understand your logic.
“The point is what is the average computer market prices, $30000 is exhorbitant regardless of how powerfull the HW is.”
What computer costs 30,000?! That’s outrageous!
Apple’s $3,000 computer however is an incredible bargain when you consider that an equally spec’d PC would cost you approximately >$4000
“Add to that the sloow MacOSX”
What?! OS X is not slow. It may have been sluggish in earlier versions but jaguar isn’t slow or sluggish.
“32bit OS running on 64bit HW”
Apple’s current OS is 32 bit. Thankfully, when Panther is released it will be able to take FULL advantage of all 64 bit applications.
“and you got a ripoff that people will see through.”
What?! What rip off is that?
“Unless they are die hard Maczealots, they will buy anyway.”
I’m sure the Maczealots will buy them as well as individals wanting to take advantage of the increased speed that the G5 will bring.
“You think a college student searching for a PC for his undergrad stuidies is going to waste 3K on a dual G5? Not likeley.”
Thankfully, Apple has several other computers that are all priced very competatively.
“High prices “COULD” kill Apple just like it killed NeXT”
They certinly could… the same way they could kill any company. Thankfully, Apple’s prices are very competative.
“This argument of comparing specs, will not be bought by a regular consumer, they usually buy what’s cheaper that does the job.”
Thankfully a Mac is not more expensive than a PC with the same specs.
“Worst, Apple are less compatible with software [Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP] and they have less peripherials available to them.”
And yet Mac users (for the most part) have all the software and hardware they need available to them should they feel compelled to buy it.
“Plus you can rarely buy Apple products off the shelves on most regular stores. Mail order is usually the way to go with Apple, that is a fact.”
So.
“CompUSA is an exception to this. But major retailers that sell PC do not sell Apple, that is a fact.”
Some do. Some don’t. For example… I buy my mac hardware and software from Fry’s electronics. They have a great mac selection.
“…whether he kills Apple or not. His only motivation is control, just like Bill Gates. Any statements they make about being motivated to produce the best new technology are instantly negated by reality (the products). Not that most people notice.”
Thankfully, Apple’s products exhibit the notion that they do want to produce the best new technology.
“I’m with the “Max OS X is slow” camp.”
Not me. Jaguar is very fast.
However, you may have a point if you were comparing previous versions.
“I see Apple pushing substandard incomplete SW”
Really? Where do you see that? All of Apple’s software is top notch.
“and suckering their userbase for half baked products.”
Half baked products? Where do you get that? Apple’s products are typically very nice.
<i.”Can MacOSX be done right? Yes, but it might take years down the road”[/i]
Light years down the road? OS X is being done right… right now.
“in the mean time people are paying for bloatware.”
Bloatware? Hardly. OS X is a very refined operating system.
<i.”Granted Appla fanatics won’t admit this”[/i]
Thankfully, their numbers are few and far between on this forum.
<i.”and yet they do not see that their blind Apple fanatism is what keeps them from sending a message to Apple to bring back the high quality that we saw on NeXT”[/i]
But Apple’s hardware and software as already very high quality. I don’t see your point.
“instead of becoming more and more like M$.”
MS is known for producing some nice software on ocation.
“The computing world is divided between Gates and Jobs”
Thats a rediculious statement.
“If I see Apple putting out NeXT qualityproducts at CURRENT MARKET prices, I’ll buyone. Until then I will continue to exhort the userbase to send a clear message. Wait on buying G5, wait for a mature prodect.”
Why wait. If you need the hardware get it now. The processor that makes up the G5 is very mature… considering the fact that it stems from the Power line of processors.
“set a higher standard for the Computer industry.”
Set a higher standard? Apple just raised the bar with the G5.
“When SW efficiency keeps going in down fall, it is not a good trend.”
Agreed. Thankfully, Apple’s software just keeps getting better and better.
<i.”Apple concentrates on eye candy”[/i]
Not at all. However, they DO concentrate on the aesthetics of the OS.
“they figure is more visible when you put out a revision to have a new theme”
More viable then creating better technologies and hardware AND a more aesthetically pleasing OS? Apple’s doing that now.
” the consumer is not as dumb as Apple thinks they are”
What makes you think that Apple thinks the consumer is dumb?
“if Apple put solid OS out there, it will be noticed.”
They have and are… and it is.
“I got many friends [Unix guys] who bought a MacOSX when it came out, only to be dissapointed with the bloated ware.”
Perhaps they should look again. OS X is a sleek refined operating system.
“Its gotten better soem say, well not good enough yet.”
Not good enough yet? I think most would disagree with you on that.
“How come Maczealots only admit to Apple weak poitns only after a new product is announced? G4 were great a few months ago, but now some admit they were not that great because we will get G5!”
i think most Mac users would agree that the G4 towers were in desperate need of an update.
“I am sure when G6 is announce, you will come clean with the G5 limitations and shortcommings.”
If by that time the G5 has some shortcomings we probably will be fourthcoming about it then too.
“Does the eMac cost $300? Even if it did, it does not have as many Apps availabel, and cannot use as many peripherials, nor can it be expanded as a PC. Its a fact that the consumer will not overlook.”
You’re right. A PC certainly is more configurable
Mistic j, man you are MaXximo over at ArsT, aren’t ya? Same MO…
Considering when it was developed, NeXTstep
is/was sweet. After the failure of Copland, no fault of Job’s, it really was something of a coup that Apple was able to base OS X (thanks to Job’s)on NeXTstep.
Thank you Eugenia.
I trust you will delete posts accordingly. I don’t suppose you need any more moderators do you?
I would be glad to help.
Can Anonymous (IP: —.ph.ph.cox.net) post Apple propaganda and lies ad infinitum? I am not even replying to his/her post, but the propaganda continues.
Whereas I will try to avoid the flame wars from now on, per your request. I wish you would moderate the endless vitrol from this MacZealot.
Ha, OS X sluggish, well look at XP. I’m running a Dell right now and XP isn’t a GEM. I hangs up at times and its to cartoonish. Ater using both os’s, OS X is much better over XP. You should try X before you talk about it
“Can Anonymous (IP: —.ph.ph.cox.net) post Apple propaganda and lies ad infinitum? I am not even replying to his/her post, but the propaganda continues.”
My comments aren’t lies.
Notice that everyboyd has been getting on your case… and not mine.
“Whereas I will try to avoid the flame wars from now on, per your request. I wish you would moderate the endless vitrol from this MacZealot.”
These are the type of comments Eugenia is talking about.
It is my opinion that Mistik made a pretty keen observation on how mac people will say that whatever they’re using is just as good as the competition. Then when something new appears in the horizon, they will finally admit fault with their current platform.
“It is my opinion that Mistik made a pretty keen observation on how mac people will say that whatever they’re using is just as good as the competition. Then when something new appears in the horizon, they will finally admit fault with their current platform.”
I don;t know of many Mac users that didn;t beleive that the G4 was in desperate need of an update. However… thats a moot point now.
I agree with Eugenia. Let’s stay on topic.
The “client.attbi.com” IP number you are using is the same one used by Mistik in another thread (Under the guise of another name).
You’re baiting again. Didn’t Eugenia JUST warn you about that?
Look here:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=4013&offset=240&rows=255#…
Notice the koolaid reference used by him (at the end of the thread?)
client.attbi.com = mistik
Could we please stop with the childish behavior, it gets really tiresome whenever you all come with the whole apple/wintel pissing contests.
Just use the tech you want, live and let live seriously. Comparing an apple to a PC is almost like apples and oranges -pun intended- Apple is focused on the user experience, a totally integrated system: Soft and Hardware. PCs are focused on a low price experience, not much integration going on, not much user experience to speak of. So again, if your bottom line is price, then by all means go and buy a PC. If your bottom line is a “wholistic” purchase, then go and get the Mac.
For the people claiming that OS X “feels” as slow as NeXTStep on a NextStation… well, hum is that supposed to be a bad thing? NS 3.3 was pretty zippy on my ol’ nstation. Also OS X does significantly more stuff than NS ever did, granted a lot of it has to do with the eye candy. But it is just not fair. I assume the same could be said about windows, heck I have seen Windows 3.1 being quite zippy on an ol 486, and WindowsXP a bit sluggish on a medium Pentium III…. so…. what is the point really? Does that mean XP is just bad?
If you’re really looking for a good alternative to NeXTSTEP, I would recommend getting a decent x86 box, loading OpenSTEP 4.2 (Intel), setting up X11, etc. and building a second Linux box that would have all of the hardware OpenSTEP can’t handle (USB, etc). Then you could model your OpenSTEP box as a zippy workstation and use the Linux server for more modern applications, transparently through your OpenSTEP box.
I’m running 4.2 right now on a PIII 450 and it’s very fast.
“The “client.attbi.com” IP number you are using is the same one used by Mistik in another thread (Under the guise of another name).
You’re baiting again. Didn’t Eugenia JUST warn you about that?”
Er, I never used attbi.com, that’s another lie. You are just psychologically falling apart now.
On topic is that the performance of NeXT OS is clearly missed in some of the todays offering. In fact according to a previous post a ModernOS based on NeXT slows down a 500 Mhz G4 to the performance of a 68040 machine running at 33Mhz. Embarracing!
Or one could also try out GNUSTEP
I have NS 3.3 running on a PA-RISC box and it is quite fast, although it is showing its age (not on the speed section, but rather on the old software section, the last gcc supported is quite old!
)
sigh…
perfect example of baiting.
Eugenia?
Thanks for your post. I’m interested in OpenStep…How is itshardware compatibility? Can I build a P4 box and run OpenStep on it? What hardware [currently in use Nvidia cards, Ati] is compatible with OpenStep?
Thanks.
How is itshardware compatibility? Can I build a P4 box and run OpenStep on it? What hardware [currently in use Nvidia cards, Ati] is compatible with OpenStep?
I’m not sure about the P4 (since the extra extensions that give Be trouble might do the same for OpenSTEP), but I also doubt you’d see much of a speed improvement from the PIII to the P4 since it’s already fast on the PIII. I also doubt you’d get much of an advantage using modern video cards (since OpenSTEP is more of a work system than a gaming or graphics system). But give it a shot — it’s amazing to see the speed it can get.
“I’m not sure about the P4 (since the extra extensions that give Be trouble might do the same for OpenSTEP), but I also doubt you’d see much of a speed improvement from the PIII to the P4 since it’s already fast on the PIII. I also doubt you’d get much of an advantage using modern video cards (since OpenSTEP is more of a work system than a gaming or graphics system). But give it a shot — it’s amazing to see the speed it can get.”
Thanks for the info. I have a PIII box that I can try it on. Now that you mention BeOS, I keep a close watch on Zeta, I do hope they succeed. Is not NeXT but I really want to see a strong OS [like Be or NeXT] to make a comeback on modern hardware and show the big boys how is done.
“Thanks for your post. I’m interested in OpenStep…How is itshardware compatibility? Can I build a P4 box and run OpenStep on it? What hardware [currently in use Nvidia cards, Ati] is compatible with OpenStep?”
I don’t know about running OPENSTEP on a P4, the fastest system I’ve run it on is a 1.3 Ghz Athlon. But really you don’t need super fast hardware to run it very well. OPENSTEP for Intel wasn’t as well optimized as the 68k version, but anything over 500Mhz seems like overkill to me.
The biggest problem with OPENSTEP is the lack of drivers for modern graphics cards. The newest card that’s supported is the Matrox G400 and I IIRC that driver was unofficial. Personally I used it with an old Matrox Millenium II which was perfectly good for 2D graphics. There’s also a generic VESA driver, but it’s limited to 60Hz refresh rate. If you’ve got an LCD screen that wouldn’t be a problem, but on a CRT a refresh rate that low is unusable.
OPENSTEP is a fun OS to play with, it’s well worth installing on an older PC. But I wouldn’t build a new high-end PC just to run it, not unless you’re sure you can live with applications that often haven’t been updated for a decade.
“The newest card that’s supported is the Matrox G400 and I IIRC that driver was unofficial. Personally I used it with an old Matrox Millenium II which was perfectly good for 2D graphics. ”
Excellent it happens that I have a Matrox G400 at hand. 🙂
“There’s also a generic VESA driver, but it’s limited to 60Hz refresh rate. If you’ve got an LCD screen that wouldn’t be a problem, but on a CRT a refresh rate that low is unusable. ”
I mainly use an LCD Panel, so I have that too. Modern graphics cards are ok, but unless is for PC Gaming, is usually a waste of money. Also A GUI can look sharp but if it is sluguish then it prety much doesn’t matter how new the card is. I do mostly 2D anyway, so an OpenStep with a MatroxG400 is something that I would like to try. Thanks.
“A GUI can look sharp but if it is sluguish then it prety much doesn’t matter how new the card is.”
Agreed. Thankfully, there isn’t any GUIs that are slugish that ofset their graphic rendering to the GPU…. (At least none that I can think of anyways)
Eugenia,
How about using a NeXT logo, for news items like this? NeXT deserves its own logo and since it performs better and PRECEDES MacOSX which claims to be a derivate but not NeXT per se, I thought maybe a NeXT logo might avaid confusion.
After all, like you said, is it fair to NeXT users to hear Macz’ and propaganda, when they just care about NeXT?
Eugenia he appears to back to his old baiting tricks again.
Question. At what point would you deem it acceptable to ban a troll’s IP number. If there’s a defined threashhold… I think Mistik has reached it.
“Is it fair to NeXT users to hear Macz’ and propaganda, when they just care about NeXT?”
???
Who is spreading propaganda?
“Agreed. Thankfully, there isn’t any GUIs that are slugish that ofset their graphic rendering to the GPU…. (At least none that I can think of anyways)”
Again you are baiting. You know that there is a Modern OS that makes a 500Mhz G4 perform like a 68040 at 33Mhz. Pretty much VC on such OS are a waste of many, toghether with the waste of most excellent HW to run slugish eye candy. Stop the Mac propaganda this is a NeXT article!
Lets keep this on topic. NeXT is a great OS, which has no equivalent today, as most modern OSes, including derivates from NeXT, do not perform nearly as well, as NeXT does.
” Again you are baiting.”
Me?!!!
What do you call this comment of yours?:
“I mainly use an LCD Panel, so I have that too. Modern graphics cards are ok, but unless is for PC Gaming, is usually a waste of money. Also A GUI can look sharp but if it is sluguish then it prety much doesn’t matter how new the card is.”
“You know that there is a Modern OS that makes a 500Mhz G4 perform like a 68040 at 33Mhz. Pretty much VC on such OS are a waste of many, toghether with the waste of most excellent HW to run slugish eye candy.”
Agreed. Thankfully, there isn’t any GUIs that are slugish that ofset their graphic rendering to the GPU…. (At least none that I can think of anyways)
“Stop the Mac propaganda this is a NeXT article!”
Nothing in that was propaganda. I was responding to your baiting.
STOP IT!
“Lets keep this on topic.”
It was on topic till you started baiting again.
“NeXT is a great OS, which has no equivalent today”
Many would disagree with that.
“as most modern OSes, including derivates from NeXT, do not perform nearly as well, as NeXT does.”
The more recent derivates from NeXT that I’ve used work wonderfully.
@ Mistik jogelour
Could you stop trolling? I am sick and tired of your childish attitude. Grow up!!!
are you people really calling for parental control? i’m sure Eugenia has better things to do than babysit. here’s a hint. if you dont like it, dont feed the fire.
quit crying please. the “pissing contests” are a better read than you finger pointing.
>You know that there is a Modern OS that makes a 500Mhz G4 perform like a 68040 at 33Mhz.
I think that was an overstatment of mine. I would say more like a 300 Mhz PPC, not a 500 Mhz. That is the equivelant power of *STEP OS on a 33 Mhz. However, that was 10 years ago. And MacOSX has 10 times more features than NeXT. So the performance is as expected.
If you are only interest in pushing Mac propaganda GTFOHP! This is an article about NeXT. GO back to the mac groups to brain wahs gullable users with your lies.
Understand that a proper message in this forum pertains to the most excellent group of machines research and deveLoped by NeXT!
If you are only interest in pushing Mac propaganda GTFOHP! This is an article about NeXT. GO back to the mac groups to brain wahs gullable users with your lies.
Understand that a proper message in this forum pertains to the most excellent group of machines research and deveLoped by NeXT!
“are you people really calling for parental control?”
Its necessary evil when you have kiddies in the forum.
“i’m sure Eugenia has better things to do than babysit.”
I’m sure she does. Its a shame that its even nbecessary.
“here’s a hint. if you dont like it, dont feed the fire.”
The problem with that strategy is that his baiting and trolling goes unchecked and only grows thus causing others to possibly believe the FUD he is spreading. Unless someone moderates his comments we’re simply going to have to continue putting him in check.
the “pissing contests” are a better read than you finger pointing.”
We can have one or the other. We can either point Eugenia to the problematic behavior or we can have threads which are insanely off topic. The lesser of those two evils is Eugenia simply modding them down (or deleting them). However a complete ban of this individual’s Ip number would certinly be a step in the right direction.
“If you are only interest in pushing Mac propaganda GTFOHP!”
I’m not interested in pushing any propaganda.
“This is an article about NeXT.”
Then let it be about NeXt and stop bainting us.
“GO back to the mac groups to brain wahs gullable users with your lies.”
Stop making troll-like comments such as this one.
Eugenia he appears to back to his old baiting tricks again.
Question. At what point would you deem it acceptable to ban a troll’s IP number. If there’s a defined threashhold… I think Mistik has reached it.
If anyone should be IP banned it should be the loser ex-Apple salesmen from Peoria. This articles is not your slugish paltform of chioce, it is about NeXT. So if Apple sucks or not, is not a concern for this thread, lets move on, all your lies won’t change peoples experience, not market share, or consumer attitudes. Live with it!
“If anyone should be IP banned it should be the loser ex-Apple salesmen from Peoria.”
Assuming you’re talking about me.
“This articles is not your slugish paltform of chioce, it is about NeXT.”
My platform of choice certinly is not slugish. I’ve already told you that. Stop baiting me and stay on topic.
“So if Apple sucks or not, is not a concern for this thread”
I’m not the onw that keeps introducing Apple into the conversation.
“lets move on”
I already have. You keep baiting me. I will continue to keep you in check as long as you continue to do so.
“all your lies”
What lies have I made?
“won’t change peoples experience”
Of all those that I’ve talked to that are using Jaguar… they are pleased with the experience. I don’t feel any desire to distort that as you’re implying.
“not market share”
Who said my comments would change Apple’s market sahre?
“or consumer attitudes.”
I’m not trying to reshape peple’s attitudes about Apple. They’re reshaping all by themselves.
“Live with it!”
I already am and have been.
Now, lets stay on topic. Stop baiting me.
For anyone that is interested, NeXT hardware and software is still being bought and sold on a certain mac mailing lists. Sorry for the commercial Eugenia.
I think that using the MacOSX icon for the NeXT article is appropriate, after all MacOSX regardless of what people say is a direct descendent of NeXT technologies.
For those familiar with deal at the time, the joke goes that NeXT bought out Apple versus the other way around.
The NeXT hardware was very cool. The cube was made out of magnesium and I think NeXT had contracted Frog Design to desgn it. SJ has never really cared for plain-jane PC boxes and it shows.
I do agree that NeXT stories should get a diff icon than OS X. It would make it easier to search by icon.
To –.ph.ph.cox.net: “—.client.attbi.com” is Eugenia’s ip too; Are you implying that she is a troll too?
Now if only you would all stop being such babies.
And could you moderate down all of the comments so far?
-Hugh
Mistik Juggler or whatever his nick is, and people lame enough to rise to the bait. What is wrong with you all? I have to say that this is one of the lowest moments I’ve seen in a while at a news site like this.
I’m curious, what’s it on?
Every Apple topic – be it inspired, related, or what have you – has become tiresome and useless for real good discussion. Too bad.
What the heck do I care if someone has something for or against Apple if they clutter every other post with noise. Hardly makes them worth my time to read. What is this some “post the most words” kind of game?
NeXT is a pretty cool OS. It was interesting to see the tracks Steve Jobs laid after Apple. It’s almost like a window into where he really wanted to take things. For instance, if you leave a company where you might have put your all into one way of thinking, you are unshackled to start thinking in all kinds of interesting directions. Anyway, good to see him bring that back to Apple, albeit, in a more focused way.
Wasn’t the problem with NextStep that they licensed it at high prices, making X dominate? Christopher Browne (someone I tend to trust) mentions this, and I’ve heard it at greater detail elsewhere. ( http://cbbrowne.com/info/xpersonal.html )
But it’s hard to critique performance since we need to give the Mac platform a year to stabilize now that it has the G5. Unless you want to argue that companies should only focus on the shortterm to the detriment of the future. Since Apple will clearly survive shortterm, users 5 years from now will be pretty happy Apple decided to look at the future.
Like Andrew Stone I still own several NeXT machines. As some of the previous posts have mentioned, compared with other OS’s running on more modern CPUs than the Motorola 68040 at 33 MHz, NeXTstep shows its age, but I still like it very much, call me a sentimental fool. Fearing that my black hardware might fail me soon I have been slowly migrating to SGI hardware. On ebay one can usually get for under $100 a very reliable Indigo2 (R4400 or R10000). As Eugenia recentely noted, IRIX 6.5 feels zippy enough for everyday use, and it is quite elegant. I have FrameMaker for both NeXTstep (3.0) and IRIX (5.5), and the former has better documentation even though it is an older version, unfortunately it runs very slow compared to my SGI version on an Indigo2 (R4400 at 250 MHz). This summer I will try to install NeXTstep 3.3 on a HP 735/125 MHz that I got just to run NeXTstep.
Lately I got as a loaner one of the newer Apple laptops, the 17″ Titanium model running OS X. Having used NeXTstep for so many years (using it since 1991 when I got my first NeXTstation as a graduate student), I find the GUI of OS X a little bit distracting. I wished it looked a little bit more like IRIX, but this is just a personal opinion.
I once tried installing BeOS (I still have most of all the versions)in a PC machine but never managed to get to run properly, so I cannot compare its responsiveness to NeXTstep. I wished it had fared better. I also own a couple of “Windoze” machines, but try not to support the Evil Empire. Just my two cents.
a certain person has inhabited these forums and have rendered them useless to me.
very unenjoyable.
one wonders how (or more precisly, why) mistic jugalar has all this free time to spend writing about a computer he hates.
just frikkin weird.
starting with the G5 Apple has, fully and properly, become a workstation company. Certainly not entirely, but I do *not* see the G5 as a “desktop” – thats not appropriate. The things a freaking workstation, with hardware specs comparable and better then a Sun Blade 2000 (excluding Fibre SCSI HD’s in the Sun) at a fraction of the price. Considering what its now competing against, the G5 is ***cheap***. Thats right, cheap. A full fledged, mainstream, Unixy o.s. with powerful 64-bit hardware for prices starting under $2000. No, the Sun Blade 100 doesn’t compare – heh.
Macs have always been more expensive then PC’s, but price has *never* been why Mac users are Mac users. My ex is a graphic designer, quite frankly she hates Windows with a passion and has been a Mac user for over a decade. She knows that the Mac she bought was pricier then a PC, but thats not why she bought it. She has a beige G3 running classic just dandy, (shes loath to upgrade to OS X, her precious UI has changed too much) no problem. Thats a purchase that has lasted.
Mac users buy Macs for the entire computing experience, and PC folks often have a hard time getting their minds around it. Is Mac OS X bloated? Quartz most certainly is. Is it slow? In some ways, yes. Is a Mac, in general, more expensive then a PC? Sure are. Does it matter to joe-average Mac user? Um, no.
But back to the G5, comparing it to a $300 PC is stupid, ’cause its not in my book a “personal computer” although it can be used as one. Its a freaking workstation the likes of an SGI box.
“On ebay one can usually get for under $100 a very reliable Indigo2 (R4400 or R10000).”
No!!!!!
Please stop telling this to everybody. It should only be a secret. 😛
if you hadn’t already. Hell, I would.
RE: Mistik jogelour (IP: 209.11.79.—)
Why do you insist on spreading the same misinformation again and again? MacOS X isn’t bloated by any stretch of the imagination. Having actually used it, unlike you, my comment is actually valid.
If seems that you have some sort of anti-Apple agenda based off some personal grevence you have with Apple. When there are 7-10million happy MacOS X users and we have one Mac-jealous PC whinger, who do you think is right? the 20 million or some idiot who complains because he can neither afford a Mac or lacks the illectual capacity to think beyond the Windows Abyss.
RE: Ralf. (IP: —.dip.t-dialin.net)
Better yet, maybe he should point to atleast a Xeon Workstation. Here is a comparision:
PowerMac G5 AUS$3599 (no monitor)
Dell Precision 450 DT $3511 (with additional changes)
That doesn’t take into account that the Dell comes with NO software except for Windows XP. For anti-Apple nay-sayers, the PC is a 2.4Ghz Xeon. Considering there is a $88 difference, that can easily be accounted for by Apples software bundle.
RE: Ronald (IP: —.162-202-24.hull.mc.videotron.ca)
Hence the reason why I am more than happy with the Hyundai I bought. Sure, it isn’t a fashion statement but it does get me from A to B in a quick and reliable fashion.
RE: Mistik jogelour (IP: 209.11.79.—) – Posted on 2003-07-13 20:02:42
Have you thought that maybe Apples market aren’t made up of poverty ridden cheap skates such as yourself. Maybe they’re people who are willing to pay a premium for something that works the first time rather than trying to spend hours rectifying comflicts, registery corruption and other crap associated with running a wintel machine.
RE: Jace (IP: —.atw.pa.webcache.rcn.net)
I’m with the “Max OS X is slow” camp.
Would that be part of the “I’m too poverty ridden, on direstraights to afford a Mac” camp?
So many comments, so little number who have actually used MacOS X. Why aren’t I surprised.
RE: Mistik jogelour (IP: 209.11.79.—) – Posted on 2003-07-13 20:13:15
Set a higher standard? You, Mr Johnny “I love my $199 computer” cheapskate are now demanding quality? I made a comparision last night AGAIN between what IBM provides, talked to an IBM ThinkCentre customer and what Apple provides. After taking ALL THOSE into account, it mearly re-enforces my original decision to buy a Mac.
Yes, I also made a comparision with the eMac screen vs. the IBM line up. Nothing comes close to the quality of the eMac screen. As for the el cheapo Hyundai and Samsung screens, don’t make me laugh. If you want quality in the PC world, you still have to pay the same prices that Mac users pay.
RE: anonymous (IP: 209.11.79.—)
Who ever said that Mac users don’t acknowledg short comings in the G4 architecture. Heck, just jump onto any forum discussing the reason WHY the G4 has a 1MB L3 cache. Mac users DO acknowledge the weaknesses of their platform, but instead of making a song and dance about it, Apple go off and actually DO something about it. Compare that to Windows and the shatter attack finding by a security expect. Here we are many months later, people STILL running Windows with a potential time bomb sitting on their computer. I for one would NOT sleep easy at night knowing that sort of security issue hasn’t been addressed.
RE: Mistik jogelour (IP: 209.11.79.—)
What is wrong with a AUS$1899 machine? that is pretty much the average price of a computer within Australia and eMac hits the sweet spot of pricing. The only thing holding them back is their crappy advertising. Fix that up and they would grab a huge amount of users. I do my part, every time a person wants to what computer to get, I suggest an eMac. Does exactly what is required with minimum fuss and bother.
RE: captain america (IP: —.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Completely agree. If the show fits, wear it. Mac’s provide great integration between software and hardware. For people like you or I, who don’t have the time to stuff around with conflict issues, it provides a great solution.
RE: Christopher X (IP: —.NIPR.MIL)
I second that motion. I want him (Mistik) not only to be banned but giving a puhlic flogging for making such stupid comments.
Well, i was looking forward to reading 84 interesting posts about NeXT, instead i read about 10 interesting ones (thats being generous), and a whole lot of Mac vs PC bullshit. GIVE IT UP! GET LIVES!
Eugenia : I’m looking forward to the article tuesday, and i’m also looking forward to seeing you crack down on the bastards that pollute the comment section with their pitiful rants that no one cares about.
“NeXT was a great OS, very fast, considering the Hardware that it ran on. Some Modern OSes can’t come close to this, as they are bloated and bug down.
As a former NeXT user, what are my options today? Is there an OS, that provides a similar experience? Or NeXT user mainly stick to the old hardware?”
Okay, Mistik, if you were a happy and wholehearted NeXT user and supporter, what complaint do you have with Apple?
NeXT hardware and software was ALWAYS more proprietary and locked in than Apple, ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE than Apple. So what’s your complaint against Apple if you admit to liking, even preferring, highly proprietary and expensive hardware and software? Hmmm?
Oh, that’s right, you REALLy are a TROLL!
Speed this speed that blah blah blah. ENOUGH.
Windows 3.11 runs unbelievably fast on my 25mhz 486, so why can’t I Windows XP run that fast on such a processor? Because the new OS has to do more. Same with NeXT and Mac OS X. Same with BeOS. It’as all the same; that argument is just stupid.
That is so true… I absolutely LOVE NeXT/OPENSTEP, always have. I also love using Mac OS X. Certainly there are a few GUI issues where I wished they’d kept the NeXT way of doing things but, imnsho, OS X is the perfect successor to OPENSTEP. OS X is doing a heck of a lot more “under the hood” than NeXTSTEP ever was and has features a NeXT user can now only dream about.
as a mac fan, MacOSlowX is a stupid way to insult os x.
are we supposed to be pronouncing that: Mac Oh Slow Ten?
Yea that rolls off the tongue. or maybe Mac Oh Slow Ex?
Yea that has a nice ring to it.
idiot.
If you are going to by catty…do it right. punk.
“Slow Ess Ten” is infinitely better slam then your tongue twister.
Mac Slow Ess Ten or Mac Slow Ess Ex
was that so hard?