“Apple’s future doesn’t ride on the speed of its Macs. In fact, Apple’s future doesn’t ride with Macs at all anymore. No, I haven’t been off in the desert downing peyote. What I saw from my sideline perch is that the Mac’s day has come and gone.” Read the interesting editorial at BusinessWeek. Elsewhere, Maccentral has a round-up article: “Developers, Analysts weigh in on the G5, Panther“.
How Apple Spells Future: i-P-O-D
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
After reading this article I kindof got the impression it was written by an author that had no background writing commentary on the computer industry, let alone anything Apple related.
Although later in the article he corrected the assertation, at the beginning of the article, he implies that the iPod isn’t already available for Windows. he then goes on to say that Macs have little to do with Apple’s future, and that instead, that future resides in devices like the iPod.
Some people just don’t get it. The Mac is the digital hub for devices like this. Without it, Apple would be just another provider of slightly-less than integrated devices as found on your everyday PC. Apple’s primary benefit is the integration that Apple can produce between these devices, its hardware and the OS.
“Some people just don’t get it. The Mac is the digital hub for devices like this.”
Yeah… Some people just don’t get it…
Lets see… Macintosh is losing marketshare every year. Microsoft is threatening to drop Mac support from Office. Even Adobe has complained to Apple that they better see a major improvement in adoption of OS X. Adobe’s sales of PhotoShop for OS X have been very disappointing.
“The Mac is the digital hub for devices like this.”
It won’t be for long. Because the average person isn’t going to by a Mac just so they can have a “digital hub” for their devices. Look at Palm. Windows CE handheld devices are killing Palm, even though Palm OS is superior. Why? Simple. People want to be able to run the same applications on their PDA’s that they run on their desktops. Windows CE allows that. Palm OS doesn’t.
The same will be true with the digital hub. Unless Apple can attract more software vendors to port applications to OS X, it isn’t going to happen.
>Windows CE handheld devices are killing Palm, even though Palm OS is superior.
*cough*
I wonder if it’s a good time for Apple to introduce another palm computer like the Newton.
The first time i connected my creative Juke box on a imac running mac os X and i tunes, it detected it and I could browse the entire content of my jukebox without a pain. when I tried to do it with my linux box, I had to compile everything by hand (I know how to do that perfeclty, the fact is it’s really boring), I had to deal with some stuff like chmoding /prob/bus/usb etc… So it worked juste fine (thanks to gnomad) on my old redhat 6.2 box, but I’ve never managed to achieve the same results with my mdk 8.0, mdk 8.2 and mdk 9.1. It just doesn’t work fine. Compared to windows where I did have to install third party software to get it running under win2K (I didn’t try under XP) but easier than linux I must admit.
Mac is just simple. You plug. It works.
pffffff, I’m poor so I can afford one but one day……
Apple’s recent strategies for carefully extending itself beyond its core niche have been succeeding brilliantly so far, with the iPod and iTunes music service. This really is impressive, as the author’s stats show, and makes one wonder if Apple has any more tricks like this up their sleeve (like that recent “iTablet” rumor). It won’t be long before Apple is making more money off iPod and iTunes than they do from Macs (if this isn’t the case already).
It bothers me the way the author slammed MusicMatch like that though. As a MusicMatch subscriber, I find the software and service to be quite good. I would like to know where he got the impression that “user’s found it awkward to use and badly designed” and why he thinks iTunes is so much better than MusicMatch (I have never used iTunes).
>>Microsoft is threatening to drop Mac support from Office.
Please provide me at least one link where a MS spokesperson threatens to drop Office for Mac. While some columnists have speculated on this possible scenario since the announcement of MS dropping ie:mac (good riddance!), MS has reassured the public several times over that they remain committed to office:mac. Without it, the entire Macintosh BU division of Microsoft would have to close up shop.
I still haven’t the slightest idea of why people would think its a good idea for Apple to kill the Mac and focus on consumer electronics. Some even think Apple should start building Windoze boxes. Apple without the Macintosh is like Microsoft without Windows. All of Apple’s business decisions revolve around that one single machine.
Perhaps music match is good now, but when it came out it was somewhat less than ideal.
Also, on a slightly off topic note, I don’t quite understand the need for a tablet pc. It seems as if it’s either a huge palm or an undersized laptop. There really isn’t anything ground breaking in it (that I can see).
Mac OS X: better, stable, superior but still a loser
“The same will be true with the digital hub. Unless Apple can attract more software vendors to port applications to OS X, it isn’t going to happen.”
OS X copies of Maya account for 25 percent of alias/wavefront animation software sales. 35 to 40 percent of Adobe sales are for mac. Final Cut Pro sales to professionals(the number is way up there).
That’s a whole lot of software sales for a computer maker that only has 3 to 5% of the computer sales. But that doesn’t make up the already existing installed base of mac user’s who make up 70% of the Creative PRO market!
OS X software titles have grown in numbers over and now it seems to me that there are more then under OS 9.
The thing I don’t get is that people always use marketshare as this indicator that apple is doing badly. As if Apple has to make a computer that sells to every person. Every Macintosh computer has been expensive since the very first 128K. Every mac will continue to be expensive. Only the Apple 1 or 2 were ever even close to being a ‘computer for the people’ and those were not ahead of their time, they were just cheap for their time. Those computers didn’t offer things that no other computer had, unlike the Mac did when it came out.
The PC market is different because there are companies that only market to the low end and companies that only market to the high end. There is a PC at almost any price point from $100 to $10,000. Not so with macs, and I don’t think that will change. Apple doesn’t want to, and doesn’t need to have a large marketshare to survive with everyone seems to think.
Also, I don’t think that iTunes will be the application that will cause people to buy the iPod in droves. The amount of time that people spend just transfering data to-or-from their iPod is small compared to the time spent just listening to it. So I don’t think that it will be as huge a deal as this guy is making it out to be. Also, I think he’s underestimating the number of windows users that own an iPod. I have heard that it’s like 1/2 of the userbase? Am I wrong here, that 1/2 of iPod users are windows only customers?
The iPod is good not because of iTunes, but because it’s a solid product that works. It does work better if you have a mac.
You can still just mount it as a hard drive and copy over files right?
The Newton was a touch ahead of it’s time, but I think that had apple continued development on it and made some cheaper models that they could have had a large percent of the market share for PDAs. Before Palm came around PDAs were typically were well over $500(or 900-1000 like most of the Newton’s were) and usually were pretty limited usefulness. Apple lost out on a good market that actually made money.
i think apple computers are for a small portion of people who like beauty, art and simplicity. there is always market for it. look at cartier or ferrari…same thing with Mac. but the reality is that you can get a clone computer and do whatever Macs do with less money. (i am not going even to mention linux). i am a Mac user but i have to say that $$$ (money) is a big factor. I can not afford to but a $500 dollars software to do certain task. instead, i got mandrake for free and i am very happy with it. even my wife likes it. i wish i could have 5 Macs in my house but i can’t. i think they are the best but if you can’t afford it, forget about it.
It’s not because you differ in opinion that the author HAS to be clueless. The Mac’s end is just pure logic, unless some amazing improvements in sales are noticed soon.
“OS X copies of Maya account for 25 percent of alias/wavefront animation software sales. 35 to 40 percent of Adobe sales are for mac. Final Cut Pro sales to professionals(the number is way up there). ”
Can you provide sources for those numbers ?
Most Apple Marketshare figures ignore one very important fact…Most Mac users still aren’t on OS X…which is a BIG problem for Apple. They’ve lost a lot of their traditional fan base, who will forever be stuck on the machines that run OS 9.
Apple won’t die anytime soon, but they won’t soar either. Pretty much stuck where they are now, unless they decide to “think different” at some point and jump their traditional ships.
iTunes isn’t that much of a success from what i hear:
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/articles/auto/06182003b.php
To the Pessimist, or the Mac is really A-LOGICAL to the windows distorted person.
It seems like the criteria to be a Mac journalist is not very high these days. Charles Haddad analysis doesn’t make sense.
Sure the iPod is the future for Apple. Apple should just relinquish making computers and just make devices and software to be used with Windows, No thanks.
There’s got to be a company out there that pushed the envelope here and there or just takes a different approach to the same computing tasks. IF not for the people who want a Mac at least for the PC trolls to have something to whine and bitch about.
I didn’t read it on this thread but here it is
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/27/maya/
Articles says Wavefront that sales of Maya in north america is at 25%
I read the 2nd article more closely than the first. I am not really interested in people’s theories about how apple should switch focus rather than stay a computer hardware company. Whenever a company decides to “switch focus,” that is the end of them. Just ask Be Inc. Apple is a computer company that tries to sell their platform by extending it in the ways that they think are natural for the computer to go. Originally, it was just the whole idea of a “personal computer.” Later came the Newton and more recently, the digital hub. Apple is generally right though occasionally ahead of their time. I don’t get these attacks on Apple by some posters here (including Eugenia who is never happy with anything Apple does and yet a good half of your stories are about…well…what Apple does). They are a solid, profitable company. They lead the industry in both OS and hardware innovation. Yes, they lose market share. And yet they *gain* users every year because the market is growing. The only people I know who switched from mac to windows have done so only because their workplace uses that platform and it is more convient for them to do so. So the reason Apple’s market share declines is because M$’s is so big and there is no viable way for people (and here I mean the average Joe) to stay on an alternative platform. For that I blame M$ and the Dept of Justice for not doing something about M$’s predatory practices. Apple makes good hardware. They make a great and improving OS. They are very responsive to the concerns of their users. And they innovate and sell great peripheral software and hardware for their platform. Any other companies out there that do that?
Eugenia,
You are coughing because Palm isn’t getting destroyed by CE devices, right? Last I heard 60% of new sales are going to palm os based products vs. 30% for CE/PocketPC/Windows Mobile.
Or are you coughing because a Palm is easier and faster to use then a CE device because its a much simpler UI and OS? Sure, its not as good for multimedia, but who really buys a palm for multimedia? Its about how fast and efficient you can get business done with it.
but the reality is that you can get a clone computer and do whatever Macs do with less money. (i am not going even to mention linux).
So you say…..but then….
I can not afford to but a $500 dollars software to do certain task. instead, i got mandrake for free and i am very happy with it.
The only Mandrake I know of is Linux.
As far as software cost, I did have to purchase many new software packages when I switched but the prices were quite comparable with their PC counterparts. There were fewer options to select from but still more than enough to find exactly what I wanted.
I am a proud owner of a 2100 model
It still kicks arse.
i do not think that the palm OS is superior to the PocketPC…it cant even do Unicode nativelly! Sony + PalmOS = superior that PocketPC.
If apple made another PDA it might be a catastrophe. It would have to sell it with an OS that people already have an established relationship with, kinda like the PalmOS (5) or Windows Mobile, or Symbian. PalmOS 5 with proprietary apple extensions/apps/UI enhancement would probably be the best solution.
As for the mac’s sales declining…go bury your head under a sand-dune or something–or at least go get more educated.
~~the greek~~
Who is doing better than iTMS?
Is it those other music services that had over a year head start and access to 98% of the PC market?
Who is it?
He said that Mac’s couldn’t get any better than what they are now. As a switcher from Windows (long before that switch campaign started) I think he couldn’t be anymore wrong.
Now from an outsiders point of view I think apple won’t gain a huge marketshare back but it’s feasible if Apple & IBM continue to work together to make their hardware worth having i think they could get 15-20% many years in the future. I didn’t pay attention to Apple really until 2001 when i switched over. From an outsiders view I think Steve Jobs was getting Apple setup to regain a lot of what it had. Think about it as soon as he came back Apple put out the iMac and later put out Mac OS X.
Putting out new hardware and a new OS was really smart. Now they have the fastest personal computer out there and a OS that can run Microsoft Office, UNIX, X11 and emulate Windows all on the same machine. Eventually if apple lowered the prices on their low end machines they could boost sales a lot. Even the G5 is supposed to triple Apples sales!
I think it’s too soon to say Mac’s are dead – i think the G5 will change things for apple. How good they will the G5 do for apple? I think it will definitely raise sales but i don’t see ANYTHING that says Apple is dead or dying. The day Apple dies is the day we lose some of the only computers that run like they are supposed to (which is more than i can say for most pc’s i’ve used (even with Linux.))
“And they innovate and sell great peripheral software and hardware for their platform. Any other companies out there that do that?”
Sony has various and sundry audio (mini-disc, mp3 walkmans, etc.) and video (camcorder, DVR) devices that integrate very slick with their VAIO line of desktops and notebooks using things like memory-stick and their own custom software. Maybe not quite as well integrated as Mac+iPod in all cases (I wouldn’t know), but they are very impressive in this regard nonetheless because of their sheer quantity of devices available. Sony would be the only “digital-hub vendor” that approaches Apple in any way, shape or form, IMHO.
from the article
Despite the fawning of record label executives and news reporters over iTunes, it seems that consumers are beginning to realize that purchasing “restricted use” AAC files is a pretty bad deal compared to “freely available” MP3 files.
I disagree. Of the people I know buying songs none of them have gone back to getting freely available files as a general rule.
However, some of the music people want is still not available at iTunes. There was probably also a factor of the excitement of the release and pent-up demand.
Even if the number stabilizes at 50,000 per day that could soar to 500,000 per day when iTunes gets released for Windows (assuming a high of 10% consumer market share for the Mac). I don’t know of anyone that would consider that a poor showing.
Thanks, mini-me. I forgot to mention that Sony also has the best PalmOS devices (Clie series) on the market and they integrate extremely well with VAIO PCs. Maybe they are much farther ahead of Apple than most people recognize. I wonder what their sales figures are like.
*yawn* Haven’t we been through this a million times?
Lets see… Macintosh is losing marketshare every year.
Which means Apple is doomed, right?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AAPL&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=3m&l=on&z=m&q=…
Their stock is doing fairly well… perhaps we ought to check the Apple Death Knell counter:
http://www.macobserver.com/appledeathknell/
Wow, declared dead 27 times. That’s pretty impressive for a company whose stock is on the rise
Microsoft is threatening to drop Mac support from Office.
They are? They haven’t said that… or perhaps they said it to you… in a dream…
…the average person isn’t going to by a Mac just so they can have a “digital hub” for their devices. Look at Palm. Windows CE handheld devices are killing Palm, even though Palm OS is superior.
Oh really… let’s see what Gartner has to say about that:
http://www3.gartner.com/5_about/press_releases/2002_10/pr20021031a….
The new results drop HP to the No. 3 PDA vendor worldwide, and move Sony up into the No. 2 position (see Table 1). At the top spot, Palm’s market share has improved to 31.7 percent worldwide and 41.7 percent in the U.S. PDA market.
Hmm, it looks like the market share of PalmOS devices is actually increasing.
Why? Simple. People want to be able to run the same applications on their PDA’s that they run on their desktops. Windows CE allows that. Palm OS doesn’t.
Thank you for your expert analysis, but unfortunately the basis for your argument is completely wrong.
The same will be true with the digital hub. Unless Apple can attract more software vendors to port applications to OS X, it isn’t going to happen.
Okay, let me ask you something, what type of software are you looking for on OS X that isn’t currently available? In general most niches are covered, unless you’re looking for a specific program, say AutoCAD or Delorme Atlas, as opposed to CAD software or GPS software.
I would say the opposite is true… Apple is offering the only platform with a high degree of integration between tools designed for use with digital peripherals. There simply is no Windows counterpart for the iApp suite taken as a whole.
[quote]PalmOS 5 with proprietary apple extensions/apps/UI enhancement would probably be the best solution.[/quote]
Eh? Why not a beefed-up version of whatever OS is running on the iPod?
“Okay, let me ask you something, what type of software are you looking for on OS X that isn’t currently available?”
Avid DS, DS|HD, and DS Nitris only run on windows 2000, IIRC. Newtek’s VT[3] doesn’t run on a mac either.
Other than that I can’t think of much that isn’t out for OSX that i’d want.
I cannot understand the knee-jerk reactions I am seeing in response to this article. I thought the article was thought provoking and interesting. Nowhere does the author dengrate the Mac or say that Apple should kill or drop the Mac. Rather, the author comments on the wild success of the iPod.
If the author’s information is correct, it appears that Apple has hit a homerun with iPod, capturing 54% of the portable digital music device market Unlike the Newton which was too far ahead of its time or the Pippin which came to the game too late). When the improvided and upgraded version for the Windows platform is released, the author believes that Apple will capture even more market share. More importantly, with the success of the iPod on the Windows platform, Apple’s revenue and profits should grow rather well.
This should mean, according to the author, that the iPod will surpass the Mac in terms of revenue and profit. That is why the iPod is the future of Apple – it will generate more revenue and profit than the Mac.
Besides, it could be argued that the success of the iPod is made possible because of the success of the Mac. I am sure there is room enough in the stable for 2 winning horses.
[quote]PalmOS 5 with proprietary apple extensions/apps/UI enhancement would probably be the best solution.[/quote]
Eh? Why not a beefed-up version of whatever OS is running on the iPod?
I think the most logical choice for Apple in regards to releasing another PDA is to release an ARM-based PDA which is binary compatible with the Newton. This will allow Apple to leverage the existing Newton application base and active developer community, as well as revive an excellent API as they did with OpenStep in OS X.
apple has been on its “deathbed” for ten years now. Give up your pipe dream boys and girls. Apple won’t go away. In fact things have never looked better for apple. My prediction
In 5-7 years apple will have a minimum of 20% market share of shipping computers. This guy is an idiot. Again, apple has to make IBM happy and that means higher volumes. I am sure apple has a plan on how to do that. Sit tight, keep moaning and dissing. It doesn’t matter. The times are a changing.
Interesting to see that mentioned. It’s worth keeping in mind that there are comparable programs on the Mac–just not identical ones. I have a suspicion that in the NLE arena, Final Cut Pro is going to be the market leader even among professionals by the end of 2004.
I don’t think the linked article is particularly Mac-bashing, so fans should really put down those brushed aluminum pitchforks. I don’t think the article is quite on the money, either, in its implication that Apple is likely to get out of the computer market within the next couple of years. As popular as the iPod and the iTMS may be, they aren’t enough for Apple to rely on. Programs like the previously-mentioned Final Cut and its associated heavyweight addons like Cinema Tools and Shake clearly show that Apple is intending to move PowerMacs into the space SGI workstations fell out of. And from all appearances, they’re going to be successful. (I expect to see Linux finish taking over the “back end” work of rendering farms and databases in these applications, but I suspect many shops would be perfectly happy to use Macs on the front end rather than Linux boxes.)
“Okay, let me ask you something, what type of software are you looking for on OS X that isn’t currently available?”
Official/Professional Gameboy Advance dev kits, either from Nintendo or any serious professional dev kits like SN Systems. AFAIK, none available for Mac.
One GBA emulator with integrated debugger as good as No$GBA. AFAIK, none available for Mac.
Official/Professional Dev kit for Symbian based plateforms, especially older ones like the EPOC 5 on the Netbook. AFAIK, none available for Mac.
A Windows GUI development IDE like Borland C++ Builder. Last time I checked, the best way to develop for Windows OS is to do it … on Windows OS.
Or at least, just a project-management IDE as good as Visual Studio with integrated source control with Visual Source Safe functionalities.
WattsM:
Ah, but FCP is just a NLE. VT3 can be used for live switching, character generation, etc. At school we use it in our tv studio as both a switcher (to switcher between multiple cameras). In theory if we had cameras at the football field we could film the football games, switch between multiple cameras, add CGs (player’s names, stats, etc) and broadcast directly into the cable network – all live!
You can’t do that with FCP. As a NLE, I like FCP a lot. But that’s all it is. VT3 can do a lot more. I’d love to see newtek port it to the new mac G5s (assuming they are fast enough), we have had issues with Windows 2000 crashing after sevral hours of continous work.
For just editing, (in the $1,000 – $2,000 range) I’d say FCP, followed closely by Avid Xpess, are my faviorite editors.
I agree with you about Linux being the back end of a render farm. I’d never really thought about that, but it does seem like Linux would be idealy suited to that.
I’ll stop rambling now
After all, the level of integration in products like iPod, AirPort, and their cool LCD monitors are to beg for even for PC users. Like we were discussing the other day, Apple Branding is as saleable as the Macs themselves. Allowing minor “hacking” to get Apple accessories to work with other OSes could be a good revenue stream for them. Just like the other “Name Brands” they could make a lot of money of the cheaper, but still good quality, accessories like I mentioned above.
Also, to really stick to MS, they could support native Linux drivers for the stuff too. It’s not a big effort as There’s no reason not to…If they add those simple features they can sell to a whole larger pool without really cutting their own base.
The only thing I’ve seen that hurts them is the idea of a “Windows” iPod and a “mac” iPod. The whole point of selling outside the Mac family is to gain potential mac customers…the idea that once I buy a iPod, AirPort, and Cimema display for my PC, next time I’m computer shopping I’ll seriously consider a mac–don’t sabotage that market lead!
I think what the problem is, is that the article isn’t overly bashing Apple but makes several incorrect assertions. Because of this, its not as easily recognizable by the unwashed masses (and apparently the more geeky among us) as a FUD article, yet the end result still resulted as such, albeit in a more subtle way.
I wish OS News would stop linking to these types of articles as they do mislead the reader, as is apparent by many of the responses we’ve seen resulting thus far in this thread.
To aid fuel to a fire,
I was browsing mac sites and one reported Apple Sales of new
computers at 700,000 to 900,000 units last year. Not a good number. Apple isn’t growing currently on the computer front. In fact the argument could be made it has become a niche computer. Sorta of a sharper image computer. If Apple dosen’t sell 1.1 millon to 1.5 million this year (1Q through 4Q) I don’t see it ever becoming a force in computers again.
And too all those Mac zealots out there I wonder how many other niche computers were sold this year? (A lot I would guess). So it’s not a bad place to be but there market share
is dropping. I would like them to do better, I would like Steve Jobs fired, I would like companies (nVidia ,Apple) to stop laying about benchmarks. Hmmm noit going to happen though.
Donaldson
Curious…
If the G5 causes Apple’s sales to dramatically outpace Windows PCs over the next 6-9 months which even if it does so only slighlty could easily result in dramatic “market share” differences, what will be the new argument to indicate that Apple is dying or is a “niche” computer?
The author is very foggy on specifics, but I think he is going somewhat in the right direction. Steve Job’s goal is to make Apple the American Sony. Everything he does is to that end. He is succeeding in that goal, although there is much, much more to be done.
opps I got my quater numbers mixed up with yearly numbers.
Those are quater numbers for example:
4Q 2000
The company reported that it sold 659,000 Macs during the quarter: 308,000 iMacs, 100,000 iBooks, 29,000 Cubes, 173,000 Power Mac G4s and 49,000 PowerBooks.
Sorry about that. The year sales for 2003 need to be over 4.4 to 5 million new boxes. (Wonder how many will be new users?)
Donaldson
In my view,
If Apple sales surge over the next Quater and then holds strong through 4Q then I would say Apple may break out of the niche market back into main stream. I don’t see Apple dying anytime soon. If the sales stay flat then Apple is churning thier current user base.
1Q 2003 numbers
Apple said they have shipped 711,000 Macintosh units during the quarter.
If I was stock targeting this, Apple needs a 1.1 million run in 3Q and a 1.4 millon run in 4Q.
Donaldson
Official/Professional Gameboy Advance dev kits, either from Nintendo or any serious professional dev kits like SN Systems. AFAIK, none available for Mac.
Well, you’re disregarding my caveat that specific software may not be available, and that I can only recommend a suitable OS X counterpart.
DevKitAdvance is available for OS X, http://devkitadv.sourceforge.net/
I’m sure you will disregard this as it is not a “professional dev kit”
One GBA emulator with integrated debugger as good as No$GBA. AFAIK, none available for Mac.
VisualBoy Advance is available for OS X, and has bindings to gdb as included with DevKitAdvance. This is also a significantly better emulator than No Cash (and also free)
http://vboy.emuhq.com/
You go on to request a number of other development tools (for developing Windows applications) and obviously these aren’t available on a Mac, just as there are no Windows counterparts to Project Manager/NIB for developing OS X applications on Windows.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Who would purchase a Mac for the purpose of developing Windows applications?
If you’re attempting to force me into tacking more caveats onto my original statement, I suppose I could, but what you’re asking for is ludicrous.
Console/handheld game development tools are also quite a stretch, considering Dev Kits are typically stand alone systems. The Dev Kit for the Nintendo 64 was an SGI Indy R4400… perhaps you’d care to show me an official Nintendo 64 development kit for Windows?
But ultimately, with the exception of the GBA tools (which don’t fully meet your criteria) to the best of my knowledge those other tools aren’t available for OS X. Yet somehow that fact doesn’t diminish my view of OS X’s vast application base…
Charles Haddad has been writing well balanced articles on the Mac for years. I might disagree with him on the details, but the bottom line is that he is right. Apple growth will be driven by products other than the personal computer (pc). It has nothing to do with Apple’s current market share. It has everything to do with market saturation, and which markets are truly growing
The pc market is saturated, particularly in the industrial countries. So any market growth in these countries is zero sum growth. Apple has to win over users from other platforms to grow. That is a very hard (usually slow) way to grow. This is not the case in the audio market. The iPod is growing its base on new to the market users. This is a far easier and usually faster way to grow.
The thing to remember is that this is probably not a single product strategy. The iPod is built using key technologies that are part of the Apple experience. For example, the light duty digital rights, used in iTunes, are part of QuickTime. This means that QuickTime will be loaded onto any computer that uses the iTunes Music Store. This in turn creates greater opportunity for other multi-media based products Apple may introduce.
Being successful in these new non-pc markets may also drive home pc market growth for Apple. If digital lifestyle product users perceive the Macintosh as a superior choice for the digital hub more users will select Macintosh to be that hub.
Pure businesweek nonsense. These are the same people that said that america should give up making cars in the 80’s. Yeah lets give up the biggest market in the world. by the way ford has THE best selling car (focus) in the world. back to apple.
Apple has just 3% to of the PC maker. That means they could increase sales by a factor of 5 without even breaking a sweat.That is real growth and the fact that they could increase sale by a factor 10X should mean something. If apple were doing 15% of total pc sale then they’d see an increase in revenue of $10-$15 billion dollars per year (assuming 100 milion units shipped and an ASP of roughly $1000). Where else will apple get that? even the cell phone market (the largest consumer electronics market in teh world and far bigger than digital appliances) only ships 400 million units per year (about 4 times that of the PC industry). But PC selling prices are 4 times higher, at least, than those of cell phones. so there you go. Higher growth does not equal higher revenue potential. The author should be fired for his inability to multiply.
I have no idea of the size of the server or work station markets but its fair to assume that apple’s tiny market share means they could grow revenues by billions of dollars again.
Apples strategy is excellent. They are increasing the value of the platform as a solution and increasing interest. for the time being, apple’s market share is held back by one thing and one thing alone..pricing. Everytime that apple decreases pricing, they will gain share. Apple just can’t drop power pacs to $1000 at once. this is going to take time.
“Well, you’re disregarding my caveat that specific software may not be available, and that I can only recommend a suitable OS X counterpart.”
I know, sorry about that, but that’s my own reality, as you have your own. That just prove that it’s wrong to think that OSX can be used by everyone. Yet, Windows *can* be used by everyone, as everything offered by OSX can be found on Windows (AFAIK, but I may be wrong on some exceptions).
“DevKitAdvance is available for OS X, http://devkitadv.sourceforge.net/ I’m sure you will disregard this as it is not a “professional dev kit” ”
Yup, I can’t. Not because I’m picky or anything. It would be perfect for hobby developpement. But I’m a professional GBA developer, and we need the best tools available to put the best stuff we can on the market.
“VisualBoy Advance is available for OS X, and has bindings to gdb as included with DevKitAdvance. This is also a significantly better emulator than No Cash (and also free)”
I would disagree on the “emulation quality”, as I considere NoCash much more closer to the perfect hardware emulation. Yet, VisualBoy has, indeed, a good debugging tool being binded to gbd. The probleme is, it’s awefully slow (tho maybe they fixed this in the past few months), compared to debugging tools provided by Nintendo devkits and SN Systems.
“I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Who would purchase a Mac for the purpose of developing Windows applications?”
My point is for what I use computer, Mac is a bad choice. Period. I don’t say Macs are bad (m’kay?), I just bring the point that we not anybody can “switch” without major hassle.
“The Dev Kit for the Nintendo 64 was an SGI Indy R4400… perhaps you’d care to show me an official Nintendo 64 development kit for Windows?”
Never developped for N64. So I don’t know at all.
“Yet somehow that fact doesn’t diminish my view of OS X’s vast application base…”
I’m pretty sure that yes. You’ll found, like me, TONS of people with very little specific needs that can’t be met by Macs.
“Apples strategy is excellent. They are increasing the value of the platform as a solution and increasing interest. for the time being, apple’s market share is held back by one thing and one thing alone..pricing.”
I disagree. Apple is also held back by the fact that software vendors are dropping support for it left and right.
I won’t buy a Mac because the software I need to run is not available for it. I run statistical software. SAS hasn’t been available for Mac for many years. And SPSS recently announced that they would no longer be developing the Mac version of their software.
The lack of software was probably ultimately brought on by Apple’s high prices though.
And let’s talk about games. I’m an avid gamer. Why should I choose a plateform that MAY see my games released, and from those games, MAY be released at the same time as the Windows counterpart.
Why should I pick that plateform, instead of Windows, which receive every games right on the spot from every publishers that wish to release a PC based game ?
Same thing apply to Linux (and even worst in this case).
“Apples strategy is excellent. They are increasing the value of the platform as a solution and increasing interest. for the time being, apple’s market share is held back by one thing and one thing alone..pricing. Everytime that apple decreases pricing, they will gain share. Apple just can’t drop power pacs to $1000 at once. this is going to take time.”
But Apple’s prices run in paralyl with equivilently equipped PCs.
“Apple is also held back by the fact that software vendors are dropping support for it left and right.”
I don;t see that at all. As a matter of fact, I see more new Apple developers jumping on board than at any other time throughout Apple’s history.
“I won’t buy a Mac because the software I need to run is not available for it. I run statistical software. SAS hasn’t been available for Mac for many years. And SPSS recently announced that they would no longer be developing the Mac version of their software.”
That’s to be expected considering the fact that statistical software is a very specialized market.
“The lack of software was probably ultimately brought on by Apple’s high prices though.”
How could this be the case if Apple hardware, when comparatively equipped to a PC is at near idential prices?
“I know, sorry about that, but that’s my own reality, as you have your own. That just prove that it’s wrong to think that OSX can be used by everyone. Yet, Windows *can* be used by everyone”
I own a Mac, why can’t I run Windows on it?
“as everything offered by OSX can be found on Windows (AFAIK, but I may be wrong on some exceptions).”
I keep looking for Final Cut pro as well as the latest version of emagic’s logic platinum version 6, but they along with many other applications were only written for OS X.
“That’s to be expected considering the fact that statistical software is a very specialized market.”
It is? Lets see… Who uses statistical software…
– Scientists
– Engineers
– Accountants
– Economists
– Polsters
– Goverment agencies
– Business management people
– Hospitals
Doesn’t seem all that specialized to me. Almost all industries use stats software.
“How could this be the case if Apple hardware, when comparatively equipped to a PC is at near idential prices?”
Since when? An $800 Imac is the equivalent of a $400 PC. I can buy a PC notebook for $1,500 that will performa as well as a notebook that Apple wants $2,500 for.
“I won’t buy a Mac because the software I need to run is not available for it. I run statistical software. SAS hasn’t been available for Mac for many years. And SPSS recently announced that they would no longer be developing the Mac version of their software.”
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? SPSS just came to Mac OS X, foo!
http://www.spss.com/press/template_view.cfm?PR_ID=544
SPSS moved to the Mac for the first time this spring. They love the platform and everyone can expect further advances in statistical software to come now that SPSS has made the move.
DON’T SPREAD FUD!
Just had to jump in.
1. Games dominate purchaseing plans for computers. I wonder
if Doom III or unreal II or or or wil be shipping on
Apple?
2. On price, lets not forget some of thie is Apple Computer
Inc. own doing.
-) Running customized parts when cots will work. aka
power supplies.
-) Customize ASIC designs. (gone in G5 using AMD Opteron
ASIC’s now.)
-) Specialize connectors on video equipment.
-) Steve Jobs pricing policy of “If I price it high
only people who will use it will buy it.” Fin idiot.
-) Failure to adopt USB specs in a timely manner.
-) Failure to provide a low level ia32 emulatior in
hardware. (This is used to initialize BIOS code on
cards. It would make all intel based cards now. Alpha
does this so that the video and scsi cards will start
up, The OS dosen’t care about the bios.)
3.) Servers without server specs. In a word SCSI. The user
level machines IDE serves SCSI.
4.) Dropping educational programs (stupid)
5.) Failing to suck up to big bussiness. (always a mistake)
6.) Good rack mount machines? (G5 xservs in a 4U case?)
I could go on, but whu. Apple Computer has done some stupid and some smart things. The best thing is in the last few years they finally got an industrial design group. (before that there designs blew chunks of iron core memory.)
Personally, I’m waiting until a G5 get to the Apple store, then I’m going to see what it is really like.
On benchmarks? any one run bonnie or quake III on a g5 yet?
Donaldson
1. that’s you. I thought business drove most purchasing decisions. Most gamers I know are complete losers.
2. And? They are the longest lived personal computer company in history and happily plugging away at the same pace.
3. don’t know what cots are? Is that fusion power?
4. Still a custom controller. Built by IBM. (Why are PC users so, so, so horribly misinformed?) And it’s the best controller on the market–integrated digiauido, point-to-point bidirectional for every component.
5. And Gates just announced they will be moving to the same part with the “Future PC”. The ADC is simply a rebranded name of an existing standard not used in the PC world.
6. Steve Jobs — the most successful CEO of silicon valley, idiot? Uh, huh.
7. Timely manner? No one using Macs are clamoring. I don’t PC owners tossing 1.0 products to upgrade. I don’t see much gain from 2.0. I have FW 400 and 800; do you even have a non-powered IEEE 1394 connector?
8. Oh no, Apple doesn’t have a piece of shiete Intel emulator! What the f does that have to do with anything? Bitch to MS for holding Intel back or something, we don’t care. And guess what, Macs don’t have BIOS issues as you describe. Sorry, but we don’t need Wintel problems. That doesn’t help.
9. ATA with independent controllers can compete with the perform of SCSI at twice the cost.
10. Do you know anything about Apple? They are hosting School Camps, training programs, pursuing education just as strong. They restructured ed sales, but they are still there.
11. Who likes suck ups? Funny… HP, Siebel, Oracle, Alias, Borland, and others seem to like them an awful lot right now.
12. What are you talking about? The G5s will go in a 1U unit. The G5 PMs have little space because of heat and noise concerns that are dealt with entirely differently in servers. Don’t you know about this rack server that you are demanding despite the fact that IBM doesn’t even have a production box using their own chip of any kind?
Whatever. YOu are a misinformed FUD spreader. You are stuck in your views. Just try to restrain from spreading your own prejudices, particularly when they are based on nonsensical illusions in your mind.
“On benchmarks? any one run bonnie or quake III on a g5 yet?”
http://a1008.g.akamai.net/7/1008/51/a78dff83763cf4/www.apple.com/po…
I think he’s right… The Mac will never get beyond it’s small market share, but then Apple’s computers have always been a niche market, even in the days of the Apple ][. There’s a LOT more C64’s floating around out there than Apple ][‘s.
I remember reading a very interesting article on lowendmac.com where they talked about Apple’s marketshare, going all the way back to the Apple 1.
Apple has always had a small slice of the personal computer market, and at this point I just don’t see that changing.
But this guy is onto something with the iPod. I know I’ve wanted one for a while now, but I didn’t want to have to be stuck using musicmatch, I hate it!
But now that they’ll be coming out with iTunes for Windows, this changes a lot of things!
Not only will people be able to interface with their iPod using a great piece of software, but they’ll also be able to buy music from Apple online. I know I can’t wait for it!!
I’m willing to a pay a buck a song for songs I like…
So yes… Apple’s future just may lie elsewhere. The Mac doesn’t define Apple anymore. They’re becoming more than a computer manufacturer.
They must have recently changed their minds then. Because SPSS had dropped Mac support for awhile.
BTW, no this is not the first time SPSS has been on Mac. They had a Mac version for quite some time for Classic MacOS. But they discontinued the Mac version.
Oh… And before you try to tell me I am wrong about that…
I just booted up SPSS 6 on an old Mac we have here. So yes, I have proof that this is not the first time it was available for Mac.
You are just a FUD spreader. If SPSS is so important to you, you would know. Yes, you’re right they used to have a version.
In fact, I found numerous links to get SPSS 6.0 running on the Mac, how to run SPSS 9.0 on the Mac via VPC, how to convert SAS data to SPSS. etc…
The announcement of Mac support came out on 10/27/99. Where have you been in your significant and substantial world of statistics for the last three years.
And what? I was wrong that they didn’t once support it? And this proves your point about lack of software support how? They once did. As soon as OS X was released, they decided to return. The product has been available for months. Yet another developer joins the growing Mac camp.
Now back to your point about lack of software and the software you need not being available….
>>>Also, on a slightly off topic note, I don’t quite understand the need for a tablet pc. It seems as if it’s either a huge palm or an undersized laptop. There really isn’t anything ground breaking in it (that I can see).<<<
Well, I am the sole member of the “IT Department” in a rather large doctor’s office (seven doctors, two radiologits, massage therapist, etc.). We use a wireless network and tablet pcs. It enables the doctors to have access to data on every patient no matter where they are. Comes in quite handy…
agree with the point that software support can be a problem for some specialized fields. I strongly believe that apple has to gain market share to satisfy developers and IBM. But i’d say apple has enough support now to grow share and developers do seem to be coming back.
“”But Apple’s prices run in paralyl with equivilently equipped PCs.””
Its not about comparatively priced devices, its about absolute prices.
You can buy a respectable PC mini-tower (expandable) for $800-$100. I suspect the average pricing is around $1000 now. Anyone know?
You had to spend $1599 for an apple tower, 1299 now. The $900 dell did what was needed hence it took the sales.
Apple needs to increase market share. I think eugenia’s posts on that a few days ago were dead on. Apple’s profitability is a function of its developers and semi partners. They want more market share. It can be gradual increase though achieved by gradually decreasing the pricing of the mini-towers or by putting out a cheap but cripled imac.
I do not know how popular the G5 and the PowerMac truly will be, it appears to me now and at WWDC that everyone related to Apple has hyped this thing up, as for Pixar, Steve Jobs owns it so seing Pixar actually embracing the G5 doesnt really shock and amaze me. I like the G5, I plan to buy one just for the sole purpose of running Yellowdog Linux, because I cannot seem to get used to or like OS X. I dont think you will see eveyone flock to the G5 though because of the price. I went in WWDC that Macs are a niche market and I havenot changed my opinion. Impressed with what Apple has done, but I came to the realization that the Mac has been and always will be a Niche Market.
“I own a Mac, why can’t I run Windows on it? ”
Because … you have .. a Mac (?!?! I try to get your point here and I can’t, sorry)
“I keep looking for Final Cut pro as well as the latest version of emagic’s logic platinum version 6, but they along with many other applications were only written for OS X.”
Thanks for the info, I did not knew about those ones.
if you don’t like macs don’t buy them.
plain and simple.
now shaddup, cause your breath stinks and you have nothing interesting to say.
*goes back to x86 systems running xp, freebsd and redhat*
Reply to By Anonymous (IP: 12.105.181.—)
Thanks for the link. Supports my theory of a G5 comming in
the range of 2.3 to 2.7 GHz P4 level. Apple quoted
1024×768 QIII 1.32 ATI 9800 pro 128MB
G5 2Ghz – 337 fps
P4 3Ghz – 275 fps
Real World
P4 3Ghz – 344 fps (9700 pro)
P4 3Ghz – 348 fps (9700 pro)
P4 2.5 – 313 fps (9700 pro)
AMD 2.5 – 301 fps (9700 pro)
AMD 1.5 – 232 fps (9700 pro)
P4 3Ghz – 310 fps (9900 pro)
P4 3Ghz – 330 fps (9700 pro)
So they more than likely recompiled the Quake III binary for the G5. It will be fun when the Nforce 3 Opterons arrive. I’m expecting thay will be faster by about 25%. Well Apple Computer Inc. at least has an competive CPU and box. From the IBM announcements it appears IBM will drive this chip up for the next 2 years or so. The ball is in Apple’s court so to speak.
Donaldson
Refs:
http://www.hardware-unlimited.com/reviews/3ghz_canterwood/index12.s…
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzQwLDI=
http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-3119_7-21109578-4.html?legacy=cnet
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/print_article.asp?current_section=Har…
I am still laughing at the moderated down comment!
And I hope we don’t start seeing articles “Future of Microsoft is Windows for Watches”.
1. Maybe be losers maybe not, but they drive a large part of the market and most users are gamers too.
2. Longest lived and have been rescued by MS. Their bussiness model has not been a barn burner by no means.
3. cots is a bussiness term. stands for comercial off the shelf. Why order a special part when one already produced will do the job. It’s not fusion power, in fact most nuclear parts are not cots.
4. Custom controller built by IBM, HA. try a hypertransport controller and by the way I’m an Alpha user not a PC user.
5. I don’t think gates will go anywhere on the ADC controller. Instead there is a new DVI comming out with DRM abilities. Sorry I don’t have the link handy. It seems to be the next replacement.
6. Lets go talk NeXT, Jobs is a great idea man but his ability to make bus. plans are sorry. Go back and researcht he floppy drive and the NeXT computer. One part cost him the company…
7a) I have USB 2.0 anf IEEE 1394 powered. (du connect card adaptec on the alpha) I have usb 2.0 on the game box and usb 1.0 and IEEE 1394 (non powered) on the laptop..
7b) No reason to toss a 1.0 if it works.
7c) USB 2.0 is very nice and I use it for drives.
7d) The current controller chip in macs has usb 2.0 but apple didn’t activate it.
7e) Ill check but I think Sony had usb on the market first.
8) You do not understand, sad. The emulator is used to kick the bios over on the controller cards. This means you can use an IA32 bios (on card) on the MAC. Which means an COTS SCSI card from adaptec can see your boot drive and start. This means lower cost to the end user and more options. You must learn that most cards and motherboards have a BIOS.
9) ATA may work but is not as fast limits the number of devices and ATA drives are rated at 5 days x 8 hours x 1 year whike SCSI drives are rated for 7 daysx24 hours x 3 years. The warnity reflects this to. If Apple Computer extends the ATA warnitys that solves one issue but not the number of devices or speed. The speed will not be solved soon. (refrence scater gather 320 Scsis and 15 devices per channel, multipath controllers)
10) Very weak, if still there. In my childhood Apple owned the schools. period. Now states will not even except free Apple computers. I do think the laptop program is good though.
11) Sounds like a WA attitude to Boeing. The idea is you suck up to a core provider. for example Boeing. Then as Boeing uses more and more MAcs there suppliers go over to MAC to remain compatable. It’s a way to work your way up (as in up stream) a supply chain. I’m not refrencing HP or DELL these are PC companies and are part of Wintel. I’m talking other corporations. GM, Ford, Nasa, Boeing, Raytheon, Entergy, etc.
12) I’m sure the xserve will get an upgrade to the G5 but I would also like to see a headless 4U box. In most of the industrial work with servers we use a 4u box so we can add other devices internally (drives, controller cards, extra nics etc). I also recgonize Apple is new to the server market but if they intend to go along this would be a good step.
Reply, FUD is not what I spread, I have used Macs from the beggining and a multitude of other computers. I have replied in a civil manner above and adressed you misunderstandings of my orginal post. And no I have no illusions I work in industry and know what a variety of industries demand for computers. As example Why sun E10K are perfect oracle machines and the majority if new workers don’t know what a MAC is.
Donaldson
“most users are gamers too.”
Bullsh!t! Give me one stat that says x% of all computer users consider themselves gamers.
Dropping prices today to increase sales does nothing for you tomorrow because Mike Dell will cut prices and again your sales will go down again. The only difference is your margins are now lower. Ask HP how they feel about it. The fact of the matter is that most of the pc market is a commodity market. Fortunately for Apple not all of it is.
Apple’s plan in the pc arena appears to build sales by marketing to areas where the pc is less of a commodity, and they can present some added value. Graphic arts and multimedia have always been such markets for Apple. The new G5 systems may open up more market areas where calculation horsepower is needed. This will give them some growth However this is still a zero sum market.
As I said earlier zero sum marketing is a slow way to grow a company. This is particularly true in a slow economy where you have to convince the buy he needs a new computer let alone your computer. Non-pc product markets like the iPod will grow much faster than pc sales. This is true regardless of whether Apple participates or not. So it is in Apple interest to address markets where it can realize substantial growth, by leveraging their technology. If they are smart in how they do things Apple could find itself as an established leader in some of these markets.
“have been rescued by MS”
Bullsh!t! Jobs and the iMac rescued them. MS made a puny investment that virtually tripled in stock value for MS before selling it. By no means did MS save Apple.
Quote
From http://cyberatlas.internet.com/big_picture/hardware/article/0,1323,…
Just when you thought PCs were becoming the dominant gaming platform, new hardware leads to a renewed interest in gaming consoles, according to Jupiter Media Metrix.
There were 46.7 million wired computer users at home in the United States who played a PC-based game application in October 2001, up 10 percent from 42.4 million users in January 2001, Jupiter Media Metrix found. While the number of people who used PC game applications increased, the percentage of PC gamers among all computer users decreased slightly, from 52 percent in January 2001 to 48 percent in October 2001.
“Custom controller built by IBM, HA. try a hypertransport controller and by the way I’m an Alpha user not a PC user.”
Hypertransport interconnects, yes. The controller is 100% Apple designed and built by IBM. Apple’s a member of the HTC too, dumbass. A controller doesn’t have to be manufactured by the patent holder of the bus interconnects, does it?
hey, i run all x86 machines currently at the apartment (all 10 of them)running freebsd, redhat, xp.
i just read julie’s moderated comment….and i have to admit..i totally agree.
apple is apple. if i needed an expensive computer with a slick os, and extravagant case…i know exactly who to turn to….apple! (it just so happens that i don’t need one)
Why in the world do we need ANOTHER x86 vendor? That commodity market is vicious and cut throat. We’ve got Dell and countless vendors, not to mention build your own.
As a person who does not own a Mac system, I have to question all the vocal anti-mac folks…Are you guys nothing but sheep? I wish I could wave a magic wand, cast a spell, and send the whole lot of you to a special kind hell where:
you get to shop at walmart only
eat at mcdonalds only
and use only windows on a dell pc only.
for the rest of your sheeply lives. you seem so hell bent on failure…..and i say that if they fail…FINE!!!… but all your rants about how bad apple is and how they are doomed…it’s all been said before…over many many years. Do you just enjoy being sheep? Do you enjoy being part of the clueless masses? “Everyone else said apple is dying.. so duh huh, duh huh…I’ll, uhhhh, say it too.”
-“a non mac user”
Hmm, let’s see: He sold NeXT for 3x what it was worth, kept everyone employed, and kept the technology.
Pixar is keeping Disney alive.
And Apple is doing fine at 25 years old.
“You must learn that most cards and motherboards have a BIOS.”
And? THe Mac doesn’t use a Wintel BIOS so it would be completely freakin useless! “You must learn” that this theory of yours is irrelevent.
“If Apple Computer extends the ATA warnitys that solves one issue but not the number of devices or speed.”
Actually, it’s the other way around. I’m aware of the warranty issue, but having independet controllers and using RAID makes ATA faster than SCSI. Which is what I said in the first place.
Quote
From http://cyberatlas.internet.com/big_picture/hardware/article/0,1323,…..
Just when you thought PCs were becoming the dominant gaming platform, new hardware leads to a renewed interest in gaming consoles, according to Jupiter Media Metrix.
There were 46.7 million wired computer users at home in the United States who played a PC-based game application in October 2001, up 10 percent from 42.4 million users in January 2001, Jupiter Media Metrix found. While the number of people who used PC game applications increased, the percentage of PC gamers among all computer users decreased slightly, from 52 percent in January 2001 to 48 percent in October 2001.
And? People who have used a PC-based game application? And that makes a gamer? That drives buying decisions? And it is less than 50% already and decreasing. And your numbers are from two years ago. So what do we have now? 25% of all computer users have played a game before? Right, market drivers.
I must agree that it is a nasty little scolding, but it is also quite funny! I’m not sure that it should have been modded down (hell, I’ve gotten away with a lot worse around here…but I guess that’s not the point).
To Anonymous
Issues.
1. BIOS. Yes I know that the mother board does not use an intel bios but the video card does use a power pc codedd bios. There are numerous articles on how to reflash an intel based radeon card with an powerpc bios. In the alpha world we had the same problem, Ou main system bios is AXP based but 98 percent of the expansion cards (ISA, PCI, AGP) are loaded with an ia32 bios to intialize them at boot time. The DEC, Compaq, HP aka Alpha solution was to load a very small intel emulator into the alpha BIOS so that when these cards started they would initialize correctly. Which means I can go down to compusa and get almost any pci card and it will run, I don’t need an alpha version. Mac Apple Computer Inc. took the other approach, they told the card vendors that use a BIOS that they must make an Apple (Power PC) variety. This means that Apple gets cards lattewr and has a limited selection. On a postive note for both camps is the fact that the only three types of cards this is really an issue is controller cards for a boot device (scsi, ata, network maybe usb or IEEE-1394) are video cards.
2. ATA vs SCSI
I must disagree. As per example an Maxtor Atlas 10K III will top out at around 24 Mbi/s transfer. This means that I need about 7 to 8 to saturate an 160M scsi channel. This backs up to an 128Mbi PCI bus. (The PCI bus being the limiting bus.) Now the IDE drive of this tyoe (same drive different controller) will need 8 independ ATA channels on 1 pci card to match this.
RAID really only comes into play after the drives are selected. If the RAID is software based the blasting the duplicated data across multiple PCI busses becomes a factor. If the RAID is on the controller card It means the computer sees one drive, but the system may have less controll on how to break up the data. I do apoligize here ad I’m starting to fragment into Veritas controls and Linux raid solutions.
On a single drive to single drive SCSI will be faster on multiple drives to multiple drives the breaking point is how many idenpendent ATA channels is located on the controller. And if there are multiple controllers how are they competing for the PCI bus. (For example I have a computer with a built in scsi controller which on the PCI-0 bus and a add on card with 2 more channels that is on PCI-1 bus)
3. On gamers.
Sorry I wasn’t done with the reply hit send to early. and yet again I will hit send, but here is an aditional article on gamers and Apple.
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2001/12/12/haddadgames/
Donaldson
Never denied I hated Jobs,
And he didn’t sell Next, I was a gift to him. The main finacial backer (who’s name escapes me right now) had just foreclosed on the factory that built the computers (Motorola based) He was attempting to move ovver to the Intel world but it wasn’t going to well. By this point we couldn’t sell the computers. (I help out the NeXT seller on campus.) Steve Jobs folded that company and I STILL love NeXT. In fact I’m crusing ebay these days and thinking about buying one.
Donaldson
Since you challenge everything else I said….
1997 PC get USB ports
1998 May 6 Macs get USB ports
Refs:
http://www.macobserver.com/columns/flipside/2000/20000711.shtml
http://www.chemusa.com/prod_history.htm
http://www.dri.co.jp/instat/detail/2002/in020007mi.htm
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:8yEuWr2dd_gJ:www.pcmag.com/art…
“Selling macs will become a small side buisness, mabye a giveaway to eager iPod buyers.”
What absolute BS. Ok, Apple is being helped by the iPod sales, thats fair to say. But the iPod to replace the Mac as its primary buisness. What rubish, what does an iPod sell for 799 AUD. A Powermac G5, a 4000. Jesus, the Mac is the reason of life for the iPod, as many has said it, the hub of these devices. Right now, more of Apples buisness will be devices like the iPod, the iSight for example. And soon enough, we may see a PDA. The author was right on some things, but the overall view is wrong.
>>>“But Apple’s prices run in paralyl with equivilently equipped PCs.””
Its not about comparatively priced devices, its about absolute prices.
You can buy a respectable PC mini-tower (expandable) for $800-$100. I suspect the average pricing is around $1000 now. Anyone know? You had to spend $1599 for an apple tower, 1299 now. The $900 dell did what was needed hence it took the sales.
And yet the Dell (along with similar PCs) don’t give you the bundled software gives you… Hence the reason why I mentioned that you must compare both computers spec for Spec. When you do, that Dell will jump up to somewhere in the $1,100 range. Something tells me that that Dell isn’t 802.11 ready or has bluetooth… That is the “absolute price” you need to compare.
“Apple needs to increase market share. I think eugenia’s posts on that a few days ago were dead on. Apple’s profitability is a function of its developers and semi partners. They want more market share. It can be gradual increase though achieved by gradually decreasing the pricing of the mini-towers or by putting out a cheap but cripled imac.”
Price is NOT the be all end all for consumer computer sales. Rather, value for the money at varying price points, all of which can be had for less than the PC competition … which Apple is doing and is starting to work.
“I dont think you will see eveyone flock to the G5 though because of the price.”
Considering the fact that it beats every one of its competators in performance, price and software I’d be surprised if it didn;t gain a huge following.
No, “everyone” wont flock to it, but it will increase Apple’s market share and installed base.
“I went in WWDC that Macs are a niche market and I havenot changed my opinion.”
You know what they say about opinions…
“Impressed with what Apple has done, but I came to the realization that the Mac has been and always will be a Niche Market.”
Wow, It’ll even be a Niche market when it reaches 10% market share? How about 15%. 20%?
“I own a Mac, why can’t I run Windows on it? ”
Because … you have .. a Mac (?!?! I try to get your point here and I can’t, sorry)[/i]
I was responding to a post before me that said that Windows runs on everything.
“I keep looking for Final Cut pro as well as the latest version of emagic’s logic platinum version 6, but they along with many other applications were only written for OS X.”
Thanks for the info, I did not knew about those ones.
There’s many more.
rer the ninche mrket concept.
at 10% it’s not ninche anymoe it’s a major player. at 10% it would be selling roughly 20 million cpus a year. A player no doubt.
The word value is overused and played. I like OS-X (a lot) but I also like some commerical software. I did try to get some relatives to buy new Macs but I wanted to play games and use applications I’ve already purchased include Linux…sigh..
Donaldson
and most of the psychoactives in general. There’s a war on, damn it!! The bus leaves for Ohio tonight. Who’s with me?
{ Considering the fact that it beats every one of its competators in performance, price and software I’d be surprised if it didn;t gain a huge following. }
It doesnt beat its competition in price, PC’s are cheaper. Performance is a non issue because no one cares about speed and other things in this economy, not everyone looks for a 64 bit PC, I know people who are just as happy with a $199.00 PC, it works for them and they just like it. Not everyone has to spend thousands of dollars just because they think it is cool. Going 64 bit was premature in my opinion, unless you are in a major production environment, because Macs are the lowest in market share and they really dont have a major foothold in the corporate world. Who as an average consumer market wants a 64 bit computer, you can edit photos and video with a 32 bit PC and even an older Mac. The only people I see going to the G5 are the major fanatics and those who wish to just be different, at some point common sense has to take hold, I want an Irix machine, I love the SGI machines but i see no reason to spend $10,000.00 in a home environment where I will not utilize the full power of an SGI machine, the same with the G5, I want one just so i can run Yellowdog but i probably wont get one until a few years from now when they go on eBay. Speaking on a professional standpoint we have 2 of our Mac clients have asked us to plan a technology path for them away from the G5. So in a year when their G3s and G4s are completely useless they will be going with something else.
< Wow, It’ll even be a Niche market when it reaches 10% market share? How about 15%. 20%? >
Macs will never see that type of marketshare again, because the main thinking on the consumer and corporate side is PC’s are good enough. When you have that mentality, it is hard to change it. Macs are niche market, as i said for people who want to just look different, and who just think a Mac makes em look cool and of course like I said the Mac fanatics who follow Steve Jobs every word and if he jumped off of the Golden Gate bridge they would go over with him.
“I can not afford to but a $500 dollars software to do certain task.”
I do graphic design on a Mac with all quality products: my drawing package cost $150, my photo editor and painting application free with tablet (tablet was $100) desktop publishing application was $15, and graphical and text only web page editors (free). All but one are OS X native. You have to spend just as much on a PC to get the same quality and on Linux the quality just isn’t there or like with Gimp it is just so much harder or like with htmldoc it doesn’t have eough features. I used both these other platforms for web design for several years. You have to recompile the kernel and use an alpha driver just to use a tablet on Linux, but on Mac it works seamlessly in every OS X applications even if it wan’t designed for it. I found a $60 design program that does joining of shapes, but it is only cheap enough to make at that price because of OS X’s graphics rendering engine.
“Pure businesweek nonsense. These are the same people that said that america should give up making cars in the 80’s. Yeah lets give up the biggest market in the world. by the way ford has THE best selling car (focus) in the world. back to apple.”
Ford is the second largest carmaker in the world. Ford makes most of its profit from 4x4s which have very high margins. Carmaking is massively subsidised by most governments. Ford is a major aerospace and defense contractor. Small cars are minimally profitable (<5% margins)- money is made on service and spares. Most cheap cars are made in low wage countries like Korea and Brazil.
“It doesnt beat its competition in price, PC’s are cheaper.”
Not when you compare the exact same hardware as comes with a Mac. When you do, the Mac will be only slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or dramatically less.
“Performance is a non issue because no one cares about speed and other things in this economy”
It’s funny how PC users suddenly start saying that speed doesn’t matter now that they’re not the speed kings.
“not everyone looks for a 64 bit PC”
Agreed. Thankfully, Apple has several non 64 bit PCs too.
“I know people who are just as happy with a $199.00 PC”
They better be happy because you can’t get much for a $199.00 PC
“it works for them and they just like it.”
Not unlike consumers from 5 years ago who said that their computers work for them and they like them… yet they felt to upgrade anyways because they found something compelling enough to make them upgrade.
Your argument is based on the notion that consumers only buy based on price and not added value. If a computer can provide added value that they didn;t knew thay could have, most will upgrade.
“Not everyone has to spend thousands of dollars just because they think it is cool.”
I don’t know anyone that spends thousands of dollars because they think its cool. rather, they spend thousands of dollars because the machine which costs more offers a service that they want or need that can’t be had from their current model.
“Going 64 bit was premature in my opinion, unless you are in a major production environment”
In my opinon, the transition should have occured at least 2 years earlier.
“because Macs are the lowest in market share and they really dont have a major foothold in the corporate world.”
And yet the markets that will be using these Macs will be using every bit of that 64 bit power… unlike many corporate customers who simply need a computer to browse the web, access e-mail and download files from a network.
“Who as an average consumer market wants a 64 bit computer”
The key is in making software that can take advantage of the the increased power. Things like audio and video editing are key in this area. Coincidentally, Apple is the leader in both consumer and professional video and audio software.
“You can edit photos and video with a 32 bit PC and even an older Mac.”
And yet you could have edited photos and video on machines 7 years ago. The point ant hand is that these tasks require a lot of processing power. The more power you have, the more productive you can potentially be.
“The only people I see going to the G5 are the major fanatics and those who wish to just be different”
That’s funny, I only see average everyday consumers who want to get their work done faster and play games better. The G5 is going to be a major boon to Apple.
“At some point common sense has to take hold, I want an Irix machine, I love the SGI machines but i see no reason to spend $10,000.00 in a home environment where I will not utilize the full power of an SGI machine, the same with the G5”
Thankfully, the G5’s cost only $1,800 so both consumers and professionals alike can take advantage of the increased processing power that the G5 brings.
“I want one just so i can run Yellowdog but i probably wont get one until a few years from now when they go on eBay.”
Wait a second, you just said you don;t need that much power. Which is it. Do you need it or don’t you?
“Speaking on a professional standpoint we have 2 of our Mac clients have asked us to plan a technology path for them away from the G5.”
How can you plan a path to move away from something that hasn’t even arived? You can plan a path to move towards something that hasn;t arived.. but to plan away… something tells me you’re just making this up.
“Macs will never see that [10 – 20%] type of marketshare again, because the main thinking on the consumer and corporate side is PC’s are good enough.”
The release of the G5s, coupled with Apple’s Panther operating system starts the completion of Steve Jobs’ rebuilding of Apple.
It’s this combination, which the computer using populace has been waiting for, many of which have said that they’ve been holding back their computer purchases for Apple to get the time table right.
This sudden sales windfall will occur in parallel with the PC industry’s slow sales rate, which means Apple’s percentage will likely jump from its current 3 percent status to double-digit growth, (somewhere in the 12 percent range) in as few as 6-9 months.
Remember, marketshare for any given company is calculated in relation to the sales of its competators (not the number of computers in use at any given time… thats user base).
This will cause Apple’s market share to make an even larger spike considering the fact that each individual PC manufacturer’s sales wont be there to counter Apple’s.
“Macs are niche market, as i said for people who want to just look different and who just think a Mac makes em look cool”
Not at all, its for people that want a faster and more efficient computing enviornment.
thank you for your comments….
i wanted to buy corel draw but this one was like $400 dollars. then i wanted to also buy something like apple works for os x and it was like $80 dollars. so, i got mandrake and i got gimp(it does the job) and OOffice… they work fine. plus, i have buying the linux format magazine and it comes with a lot of software for free. i don’t mind to pay but i think i am getting a better deal right now using linux.
i know that i am not using the best((i wish i could right now)) but i can not ask for more. i am saving money to buy one of the new Macs maybe for next year. my wife is dying for one of the new models.
but the only i can say is that mac is the best. no questions about it. if you have the money, buy it…if you can’tm there are other solutions.
– 2501
ps: what abour amiga 4.0 and zeta-beos((both coming soon))