“Apple’s future doesn’t ride on the speed of its Macs. In fact, Apple’s future doesn’t ride with Macs at all anymore. No, I haven’t been off in the desert downing peyote. What I saw from my sideline perch is that the Mac’s day has come and gone.” Read the interesting editorial at BusinessWeek. Elsewhere, Maccentral has a round-up article: “Developers, Analysts weigh in on the G5, Panther“.
How Apple Spells Future: i-P-O-D
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
“thank you for your comments….
i wanted to buy corel draw but this one was like $400 dollars. then i wanted to also buy something like apple works for os x and it was like $80 dollars. so, i got mandrake and i got gimp(it does the job) and OOffice… they work fine.”
And you can’t use these Applications in OS X why?
(If you’re not aware… you can)
“plus, i have buying the linux format magazine and it comes with a lot of software for free. i don’t mind to pay but i think i am getting a better deal right now using linux.”
That software will almost certinly run on OS X.
Apple’s X11 is a great piece of software.
“i know that i am not using the best((i wish i could right now)) but i can not ask for more. i am saving money to buy one of the new Macs maybe for next year. my wife is dying for one of the new models.”
No need to save any more than what you might spend on a new PC. Remember, Macs are similar in price to comparitively equipped PCs.
“but the only i can say is that mac is the best. no questions about it. if you have the money, buy it…if you can’tm there are other solutions.”
If you don’t have the money… too bad you wont be able to buy a new PC either. Equally equipped systems are nearly idential in price.
“ps: what abour amiga 4.0 and zeta-beos((both coming soon))”
Worth considering as well
< Not when you compare the exact same hardware as comes with a Mac. When you do, the Mac will be only slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or dramatically less. >
Believe what you want I have done price comparisons, with exact matching hardware and the Macs always come up at least $1,000 bucks more. Furthermore, i would love to know where you mac users get your prices. LOL
<
It’s funny how PC users suddenly start saying that speed doesn’t matter now that they’re not the speed kings. >
We are still the speed kings because no one has come up with any reliable benchmarks that anyone can actually depend on, MindCraft comes to mind. This reminds me of a few years ago when Apple released the G4, they compared it to a Sony desktop and gave the g4 a glowing review, Until Sony disreputed those benchmarks, threatened to Sue Apple and Apple suddenly withdrew those benchmarks like a day later,Since then they have never done a comparison with Sony anymore. So it has always been my policy never to trust Apple or Microsoft funded benchmarks.
< Agreed. Thankfully, Apple has several non 64 bit PCs too.
>
That are considerably more expensive than a PC as well.
< I don’t know anyone that spends thousands of dollars because they think its cool. rather, they spend thousands of dollars because the machine which costs more offers a service that they want or need that can’t be had from their current model. >
I know severalpeople who do buy Macs because they feel the Mac is cool, when all the hype with OS X came around, yes sveral Open Source developers went with the Mac but went back to Linux and FreeBSD, So the cool factor does play a part.
< In my opinon, the transition should have occured at least 2 years earlier. >
Why? There was no need for 64 bit 2 yrs ago, just like there is no need for it now.
< And yet the markets that will be using these Macs will be using every bit of that 64 bit power… unlike many corporate customers who simply need a computer to browse the web, access e-mail and download files from a network. >
Thats the poin, find me a market that will be using these machines. The only thing Apple has a real market in are the 3 to 5 percent of desktop market they control.
< The key is in making software that can take advantage of the the increased power. Things like audio and video editing are key in this area. Coincidentally, Apple is the leader in both consumer and professional video and audio software. >
Only a leader in their users eyes.
< That’s funny, I only see average everyday consumers who want to get their work done faster and play games better. The G5 is going to be a major boon to Apple. >
we will see about that, but with my Athlon XP I work fastr and play better than anything Apple has or ever will offer.
< Thankfully, the G5’s cost only $1,800 so both consumers and professionals alike can take advantage of the increased processing power that the G5 brings. >
The lower end machines cost $1,800 and not everyone will have the need for that processing power, thats the whole point. PC’s offer value, are fatser than Macs and have more significant advantages than a Mac, anything the Mac had to offer, has now been either matched or surpassed, sorry
< Wait a second, you just said you don;t need that much power. Which is it. Do you need it or don’t you? >
Thats why I said a few years, when I can get a G5 from eBay for $350 bucks like I did my G4. The only thing I will buy top of the line now are my PC’s.
< How can you plan a path to move away from something that hasn’t even arived? You can plan a path to move towards something that hasn;t arived.. but to plan away… something tells me you’re just making this up. >
They neither want to invest or stay with the Mac. With all my clients that were interested I have prepared a complete overview of WWDC, announcements and the G5, they dont want to go with the G5. Yes, you can plan a transition away from a platform. People have been moving away from the Mac for years.
< The release of the G5s, coupled with Apple’s Panther operating system starts the completion of Steve Jobs’ rebuilding of Apple.
It’s this combination, which the computer using populace has been waiting for, many of which have said that they’ve been holding back their computer purchases for Apple to get the time table right.
This sudden sales windfall will occur in parallel with the PC industry’s slow sales rate, which means Apple’s percentage will likely jump from its current 3 percent status to double-digit growth, (somewhere in the 12 percent range) in as few as 6-9 months.
Remember, marketshare for any given company is calculated in relation to the sales of its competators (not the number of computers in use at any given time… thats user base).
This will cause Apple’s market share to make an even larger spike considering the fact that each individual PC manufacturer’s sales wont be there to counter Apple’s. >
The g5 and Panther while impressive, dont have the WOW that Apple needs to really grow their business. Double Digit marketshare are only Mac users pipe dreams. PC sales will jump before Apples does remember what I said in my previous statements, People go fore price and value, they will not buy a $3,000 dollar or even a $1,800 dollar computer if they can have one for $799 dollars or even $199 dollars.
< Not at all, its for people that want a faster and more efficient computing enviornment. >
PC’s will always offer a faster and efficient computing environment. Come down to the real world.
Hello,
Just a few additional facts.
Car manufactures lose money on the really small cars. They build them to get the gas milage of the entire fleet pulled up to avoid CAFE taxes. The European (Really high end cars) said they would rather pay the penalty than damage their name.
On going to 64 bit. This, if there could be a point, is the best time I’ve seen to shift to 64 bit. The Alpha lead the way 10 years ago and now all the major vendors are there. Apple Computer Inc. is at a very very good point to make the switch.
On CPU power the G% is very comparable with the current Intel cpus. I am envelopeing the G5 will be about the equivalent of a 2.5 GHz P4 (give or take) While this dosen’t give Apple the number on slot it puts them back in the game. The issue is in the next year can they stay in the game or will they fall behind. By this point next year we will be talking about 5 Ghz chips. (The 2.3c P4 will already go up to 3.6 on air and the 4.4 P5 has been seen. The Opterons are a damn fast chip. Slap a recompiler on windows for apps and it will fly in that space.) The P5 is going to be closer to a dual core and I’m speculateing the dual proc NForce-3 boards will be out.)
And yes if the hardware is supported mac’s do just work, still they support less than PC but what they do support they do excellent. I’m liking the G5 I will wait to see if an upgrade comes out to move the G4 to a G5 or more than likely I will get a G5 laptop. (I just wish Apple would but 2 buttons on that damn mouse. (laptop) I can switch out a desktop but reverse mods on a laptop could hurt.)
And I think G5 and Panther has a lot of WoW, but will it transfer into sales? I don’t know. If Apple sends review machines out then yes, If Apple dosen’t send out review machines I would say no.
Just my 2.5 cents
Donaldson
< “Believe what you want I have done price comparisons, with exact matching hardware and the Macs always come up at least $1,000 bucks more.”>
As have I (and many others) all of which came to the same conslusion.. that the Mac was either slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or significantly less. What’s important is that you equip the PC with the same hardware software configuration with the equivilent model on the Mac. (This is the part that most individuals forget…)
“< Furthermore, i would love to know where you mac users get your prices. LOL “>
Same place anyone else might buy a Mac. LOL
<“We are still the speed kings because no one has come up with any reliable benchmarks that anyone can actually depend on, MindCraft comes to mind.” >
Let me get this strait, you are claiming that your PC is still the speed king based on the same bechmarks which have subsoquently been used to disprove that temporary lead now that the Mac has prooven itself faster? Give me a break. you people are pathetic.
< “This reminds me of a few years ago when Apple released the G4, they compared it to a Sony desktop and gave the g4 a glowing review, Until Sony disreputed those benchmarks, threatened to Sue Apple and Apple suddenly withdrew those benchmarks like a day later,Since then they have never done a comparison with Sony anymore. So it has always been my policy never to trust Apple or Microsoft funded benchmarks.” >
Whether or not Apple was right or wrong is not worth the expensve of going to court over the matter. As a shareholder, I believe Apple did the wise thing.
“<< Agreed. Thankfully, Apple has several non 64 bit PCs too.” >>
< “That are considerably more expensive than a PC as well.”
Not when equipped with identical (or as close as possible) hardware and software
< “I know severalpeople who do buy Macs because they feel the Mac is cool” >
Oh, don’t get me wrong, the Mac definately IS cool, but thats not the reason why the vast majority buy them. Rather, it is because Apple provides uniqe solutions that cant’t be had with any alternative.
<< “when all the hype with OS X came around, yes sveral Open Source developers went with the Mac but went back to Linux and FreeBSD, So the cool factor does play a part.” >>
Of all the open source develoeprs that I stay in contact with (many) that switched to Apple hardware, not continued using it but ramped up development on the platform. Many of them remained active in Open source circles at the same time.
“<< In my opinon, the transition should have occured at least 2 years earlier. >>”
“< Why? There was no need for 64 bit 2 yrs ago, just like there is no need for it now.”>
The reason is because there was such a need for 64 bit 2 years ago just like there is a need for it now.
<“Thats the poin, find me a market that will be using these machines. The only thing Apple has a real market in are the 3 to 5 percent of desktop market they control.”>
Your argument is rediculious. Its as if you’re saying that there is no more need for increased speed. if that’s the case, why aren;t you arguing that Intel and AMD have already achieved speed nirvana and should just continue pumping out the same processors that they are shipping currently without ever increasing performance.
There most certinly is room for Apple to grow because the significant advancement in speed that the G5’s bring. To name just a few markets for potential growth:
Web serving, File serving, 3D development and rendering, Desktop Publishing, Video production, Audio production, Scientific and Medical fields etc etc etc.
<< “The key is in making software that can take advantage of the the increased power. Things like audio and video editing are key in this area. Coincidentally, Apple is the leader in both consumer and professional video and audio software. >>
< “Only a leader in their users eyes.” >
Of those that haven’t seen it, its not because it isn’t so. Rather, is because they simply don’t know any better.
<“ith my Athlon XP I work fastr and play better than anything Apple has or ever will offer.” >
The key word there in your argument is “I”. Perhaps you might work faster or better, but that certinly wouldn’t mean that the rest of the world wouldn’t. You’re being rediculoious.
<“The lower end machines cost $1,800>”
The lower end machines of the fastest desktop computers the world has ever seen.
<“and not everyone will have the need for that processing power”>
Thankfully, Apple offers machines that are significantly less expensive which coincidentally are lower in processing power.
<“PC’s offer value”>
You are correct. Yes they do. However, not as much value as an equally equipped Mac at the same price point.
<“are fatser than Macs”> [i]
You could have claimed that argument a couple weeks ago, but not with the introduction of the G5. If you want to pick nits, you could probably boast a couple more months untilthe G5’s ship.
[i] < “and have more significant advantages than a Mac” >
Different advantages, not more.
<“anything the Mac had to offer, has now been either matched or surpassed, sorry”>
No need to apologise. its simply not necessary. Macs are similar in price (if not less expensive) are faster, and have a better OS (although thats in the eye of the beholder)
<< “Wait a second, you just said you don;t need that much power. Which is it. Do you need it or don’t you?” >>
<“Thats why I said a few years, when I can get a G5 from eBay for $350 bucks like I did my G4. The only thing I will buy top of the line now are my PC’s.”>
Why would you only buy a top of the line PC new… if they are so much slower and offer less advantages than a Mac? Similarly, why wouldn’t you buy a G5 when they are so much less expensive then a comperably equipped PC? You’re simply not making any sense.
<< “How can you plan a path to move away from something that hasn’t even arived? You can plan a path to move towards something that hasn;t arived.. but to plan away… something tells me you’re just making this up.” >>
<“They neither want to invest or stay with the Mac.”>
Thats wierd… considering the fact that the G5 is so much less expensive than a comperably equipped PC and yet is so much more powerful. Something leads me to believe that if this story is true, its probably because you mis informed this customer, not unlike you are trying to misinform those that are reading this thread.
” < “With all my clients that were interested I have prepared a complete overview of WWDC, announcements and the G5, they dont want to go with the G5.” >
Again, thats wierd… considering the fact that the G5 is so much less expensive than a comperably equipped PC and yet is so much more powerful. Something leads me to believe that if this story is true, its probably because you mis informed this customer, not unlike you are trying to misinform those that are reading this thread.
< “The release of the G5s, coupled with Apple’s Panther operating system starts the completion of Steve Jobs’ rebuilding of Apple.
It’s this combination, which the computer using populace has been waiting for, many of which have said that they’ve been holding back their computer purchases for Apple to get the time table right.
This sudden sales windfall will occur in parallel with the PC industry’s slow sales rate, which means Apple’s percentage will likely jump from its current 3 percent status to double-digit growth, (somewhere in the 12 percent range) in as few as 6-9 months.
Remember, marketshare for any given company is calculated in relation to the sales of its competators (not the number of computers in use at any given time… thats user base).
This will cause Apple’s market share to make an even larger spike considering the fact that each individual PC manufacturer’s sales wont be there to counter Apple’s.” >
<“The g5 and Panther while impressive, dont have the WOW that Apple needs to really grow their business.” >
The most certinly do. I have come across many MANY Windows PC users that never even considered a Mac in the past are planning on switching.
<“Double Digit marketshare are only Mac users pipe dreams.”>
Not at all. As i mentioned above, This sudden sales windfall will occur in parallel with the PC industry’s slow sales rate, which means Apple’s percentage will likely jump from its current 3 percent status to double-digit growth, (somewhere in the 12 percent range) in as few as 6-9 months. Remember, marketshare for any given company is calculated in relation to the sales of its competators (not the number of computers in use at any given time… thats user base).
< “PC sales will jump before Apples does” >
I seriously doubt it. There is little reason for anyone in the PC world to upgrade.
< ” remember what I said in my previous statements, People go fore price and value” >
EXACTLY the factors which will cause Apple’s market share to incrase and PC vendors marketshare to remain stagnant.
<“they will not buy a $3,000 dollar or even a $1,800 dollar computer if they can have one for $799 dollars or even $199 dollars.”>
While not every mac user will be buying a G5, SEVERAL will which will most certinly add to Apple;s increased market share. You mentioned price and Value. The average PC for the prices you mentioned offer little value. The $799 one would certinly offer more value than the $199, but not in relation to a $799 Mac.
<< <“Not at all, its for people that want a faster and more efficient computing enviornment.” > [/i]
<“PC’s will always offer a faster and efficient computing environment.”>
Sorry bud, that theory was busted a while back.
<“Come down to the real world.”>
Look in the mirror when you make that statement.
DOH!
“Thankfully, Apple offers machines that are significantly less expensive which coincidentally are lower in processing power.”
Doh… that came out wrong.
This site needs a preview post button real bad.
“Ford is the second largest carmaker in the world. Ford makes most of its profit from 4x4s which have very high margins. Carmaking is massively subsidised by most governments. Ford is a major aerospace and defense contractor. Small cars are minimally profitable (<5% margins)- money is made on service and spares. Most cheap cars are made in low wage countries like Korea and Brazil.”
so what your point. the auto industry is still the number one or two in terms of size. Would it have been a good idea to turn our heads and run away because some writer at business week said so?
“And yet the Dell (along with similar PCs) don’t give you the bundled software gives you… Hence the reason why I mentioned that you must compare both computers spec for Spec. When you do, that Dell will jump up to somewhere in the $1,100 range. Something tells me that that Dell isn’t 802.11 ready or has bluetooth… That is the “absolute price” you need to compare. ”
The user will purchase the cheapest tool for the job and that is the dell. you assume that users actually care about those additional features. The sales figures strongly suggest that they don’t.
“Price is NOT the be all end all for consumer computer sales. Rather, value for the money at varying price points, all of which can be had for less than the PC competition … which Apple is doing and is starting to work.”
Yes i agree with this. However sales figures again suggest that users want towers, not integratd imac types. Apple’s offering to that segment have been $500 to $600 above the average spent in that segment. The user is buying the cheapest device for the job with some caveats (like expandability). Apple priced themselves out of the mainstream market. AGain, the sale figures demonstrate this.
Developer and chip vendors want volumes
Finally, the premise of that article remains horribly flawed. Apple is using software, computers, and digital appliances to build an attractive solution that helps sell all of the above. Apple is probably doing this to help increase sales of computers. Two, there is a lot more money to be made for Apple in the computer world for now and that won’t change for several years
< The lower end machines of the fastest desktop computers the world has ever seen.>
Believe the rhetoric if you will
< As have I (and many others) all of which came to the same conslusion.. that the Mac was either slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or significantly less. What’s important is that you equip the PC with the same hardware software configuration with the equivilent model on the Mac. (This is the part that most individuals forget…) >
Thats just total crap, like I said I dont know where you get your prices but hey, believe what you want it just shows the idiotic tendencies of your “community” or whatever you call it. Macs will never be cheape than PC’s and the 2 reasons why they will never be vheaper is, cost of producing the machine. Apple canno subsidize the hardware because it is coming out of their pocket and 2 they are still using the weak and unpopular PPC. When you produce your hardware you tend to get the short end of the stick.
< Let me get this strait, you are claiming that your PC is still the speed king based on the same bechmarks which have subsoquently been used to disprove that temporary lead now that the Mac has prooven itself faster? Give me a break. you people are pathetic. >
Apple has not proven anything, with the G5. You think they have but they havent. Until someone shows me a reliable benchmark series, I take it with a grain of salt. Considering at WWDC they were so closed mouythed and ignoring anyone who asked about hardware comparisons, shows me Apple had something to hide.
< Your argument is rediculious. Its as if you’re saying that there is no more need for increased speed. if that’s the case, why aren;t you arguing that Intel and AMD have already achieved speed nirvana and should just continue pumping out the same processors that they are shipping currently without ever increasing performance.
There most certinly is room for Apple to grow because the significant advancement in speed that the G5’s bring. To name just a few markets for potential growth:
Web serving, File serving, 3D development and rendering, Desktop Publishing, Video production, Audio production, Scientific and Medical fields etc etc etc. >
I never said there was no need for increase in speed, Im saying that there is no need for a desktop 64bit machine. All those markets you mentioned is contolled right now by the PC side, excuse me but i happen to agree with the BW author, Apples future is the iPod and other services, not desktop PC’s they lost that war and they will never revive it. The public has spoken, they like the PC. They buy PC’s. Macs offer no significant advantages over a PC, we are getting nowhere with this debate because you are saying this stuff but you still havent sold me.
< You are correct. Yes they do. However, not as much value as an equally equipped Mac at the same price point. >
They offer more value than any Mac, the number are just there.
< You could have claimed that argument a couple weeks ago, but not with the introduction of the G5. If you want to pick nits, you could probably boast a couple more months untilthe G5’s ship. >
I can boast it now and then, read the part of no reliable benchmarks
< Why would you only buy a top of the line PC new… if they are so much slower and offer less advantages than a Mac? Similarly, why wouldn’t you buy a G5 when they are so much less expensive then a comperably equipped PC? You’re simply not making any sense. >
They are not more expensive. I find true value lays with the PC and I find the PC to be less expensive, as I have said time and time before.
< Again, thats wierd… considering the fact that the G5 is so much less expensive than a comperably equipped PC and yet is so much more powerful. Something leads me to believe that if this story is true, its probably because you mis informed this customer, not unlike you are trying to misinform those that are reading this thread.>
I have not misinformed anyone, anyone can go online and see that your position that Macs are cheaper or equally priced is just a load of crap. As for our customers, why would i try to misinform them. I am fully equipped to handle whatever platform they decide to go. SPARC, PC, Mac, Alpha it doesnt matter.
< The most certinly do. I have come across many MANY Windows PC users that never even considered a Mac in the past are planning on switching. >
And I have come across many consumers that are planning to switch from the Mac to the PC, the PC side will lose some but nowhere near where it will take you to double digits.
< While not every mac user will be buying a G5, SEVERAL will which will most certinly add to Apple;s increased market share. You mentioned price and Value. The average PC for the prices you mentioned offer little value. The $799 one would certinly offer more value than the $199, but not in relation to a $799 Mac.>
The $199 dollar PC beats the Mac in value when compared.
< I seriously doubt it. There is little reason for anyone in the PC world to upgrade. >
Just like there is no reason for anyone in the Mac world to upgrade.
< EXACTLY the factors which will cause Apple’s market share to incrase and PC vendors marketshare to remain stagnant. >
Apples sales will stay non existant because of the economy and the fact PC’s are cheaper. Apple has no one else to blame but themselves for any loss they incur.
< Sorry bud, that theory was busted a while back.>
With over 90% of the computing markets saying something else, I think the opinion of a handful of zealots is hardly worth laying weight too.
< Look in the mirror when you make that statement. >
Funny, but I am wide awake. Only the Mac zealots are dreaming
“You are just a FUD spreader. If SPSS is so important to you, you would know. Yes, you’re right they used to have a version.”
I don’t use SPSS. I use SAS. Which is NOT available for the Mac anymore.
And lay off the personal insults. You don’t win debates that way. All you do is show your immaturity.
“most users are gamers too.”
This I can’t agree with. In fact, I would say that the average user is NOT a gamer. The era of PC gaming is coming to a close. Console gaming systems have surpassed PCs when it comes to game performance. And many many new games aren’t even being ported to PC anymore. THey are only available for PS2, XBox, and Game Cube. I think gaming is mostly illrelavent for the average user.
I am curious to why Apple users are so defensive of their platform. I can only conclude that they need to justify why they spent money on something they know deep down probably isn’t that great. A Ferrari, Rolex or Armani wearer feels no need to justify their choice because they know they have something special. I’ve never heard a Mercedes owner saying that a M-B is cheaper than a similar sized Ford, that is much easier to drive or has much better fuel economy. I doubt any Rolex owner would ever claim her watch is more accurate than a cheap Casio digital.
Macs are reasonable (Dell) quality, OSX is a decent (XP quality)operating system. The fastest G5 maybe the fastest desktop at the moment. Not much to really get excited about.
//Console gaming systems have surpassed PCs when it comes to game performance.//
Er .. not yet, junior. DOOM 3, though it will be released on Xbox, will still look *TONS BETTER* on a top-shelf gaming PC.
Unless you’re like one of the ignorant masses who can’t tell the picture-quality difference between composite and RGB video.
“Believe the rhetoric if you will”
I only believe rhetoric in instances such as this when its true.
<< “As have I (and many others) all of which came to the same conslusion.. that the Mac was either slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or significantly less. What’s important is that you equip the PC with the same hardware software configuration with the equivilent model on the Mac. (This is the part that most individuals forget…”) >
< “Thats just total crap, like I said I dont know where you get your prices > “</i
Not crap at all. Like I said, i get my prices at any Mac retail store or mail order location.
[i]< “but hey, believe what you want it just shows the idiotic tendencies of your “community” or whatever you call it. >”
You don;t have to believe me, the prices speak for themselves. They are
either slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or significantly less. What’s important is that you equip the PC with the same hardware software configuration with the equivilent model on the Mac.
< “Macs will never be cheape than PC’s” >
In many instances they are. The key is to compare the same machine spec for spec. They’re not always cheaper. Sometimes they’re a little more, sometimes the same price, sometimes a little less, sometimes a lot less.
< “and the 2 reasons why they will never be vheaper is, cost of producing the machine.” >
You mean the cost of producing the machine with the same commodity parts that many PC manufacturers use?
“Apple canno subsidize the hardware because it is coming out of their pocket”
Apple sells a lot of computers, Its among the largest computer manufacturers on the planet. They can negotiate the same deals that PC manufactuers do for parts.
< “and 2 they are still using the weak and unpopular PPC. >
You mean the powerful yet unpopular PPC. its important to recognise that PPC is a less expensive processor to build than x86. The x86 costs significantly more, but because of the conomics of scale, the price is similar to what one might chanrge for a PPC.
< “When you produce your hardware you tend to get the short end of the stick.” >
Apple uses comoddity hardware like any PC manufacturer.
< “Apple has not proven anything, with the G5.” >
Yes they have… they along with ViriTest.
< “You think they have but they havent.” >
You thank they haven’t but they have.
< “Until someone shows me a reliable benchmark series, I take it with a grain of salt.” >
Geez, what more do you want, they gave you Spec benchmarks, Specfp, Quake, real world test etc etc etc etc. Sounds like you wont accept any benchmark until there is something which says your beloved PC is faster.
< “Considering at WWDC they were so closed mouythed and ignoring anyone who asked about hardware comparisons, shows me Apple had something to hide.” >
Apple was ANYTHING but closed mouthed. They gave a FULL report about how the tests were conducted lest people like you say they were trying to hide something.
< “I never said there was no need for increase in speed” >
Yes you did, you said that the new architecture was premature, that consumers don;t need this much speed.
< “Im saying that there is no need for a desktop 64bit machine.” >
And you were wrong with that statement. There are many individuals that can use the power that this 64 bit desktop machine can provide. This includes consumers and professionals.
< “All those markets you mentioned is contolled right now by the PC side” >
Not true, but some are… hence the reason for listing it. its a growth market.
< “i happen to agree with the BW author, Apples future is the iPod and other services”>
The iPod will play a significant roll in Apple’s future but to suggest that Apple’s future lies solely with devices like the iPod is wrong. The Macintosh is the digital hub for these devices. That won’t change anytime soon.
< “not desktop PC’s they lost that war” >
While I don’t suspect that Apple will be the dominant OS anytime soon, but to suggest that they lost the war implies that Apple doesn;t have a market for Macs anymore… a statement that simply ins’t true. PCs have reached market saturation. Macs have a several opportunities for growth in EVERY market. PCs have nowhere to go but down.
< “and they will never revive it.” > ,/i>
You sound like the individuals that said that Apple lost the speed war with never a chance to get it back again.
[i]< “The public has spoken, they like the PC.” >
Apple doesn’t need to outsell PCs. Rather, they need to sell enough to keep developers happy enough to continue developing software which will cause consumers to continue buying their products… something they are doing very well.
< “They buy PC’s.” >
They buy Macs too.
<“Macs offer no significant advantages over a PC”>
The speed advantage alone is significant.
<“we are getting nowhere with this debate because you are saying this stuff but you still havent sold me.”>
I’m not trying to sell you, just correct your FUD so that others aren’t mislead by it.
< “[PCs] offer more value than any Mac” >
In some instances PCs do, in some instances Macs do.
< “I can boast [the PCs speed advantage] now and [before the G5’s were intro’d], read the part of no reliable benchmarks” >
You could boast the PCs speed advantage before the G5 intro but not after, read the part about reliable benchmarks
< “[PC] are not more expensive.” >
Most of the time no, but in some ocations they are. Most of the time (when the PC and Macs specs are comparable) they are the same price
< “I find true value lays with the PC” > ,/i>
True value does indeed lay with the PC as it does with the Mac.
[i]< “and I find the PC to be less expensive” >
In most instances, the Mac is either slightly more, the same price, slightly less, or significantly less (when you compare the hardware Spec for spec
< “I have not misinformed anyone, anyone can go online and see that your position that Macs are cheaper or equally priced is just a load of crap.” >
When the specs in hardware and software are matched as closely as possible, they are not crap, but true indeed.
< “As for our customers, why would i try to misinform them.” >
probably for the same reason why you’re trying to informa OS News readers
< “And I have come across many consumers that are planning to switch from the Mac to the PC” >
I’m sure you have… Up until just recently, Apple’s professional lineup would cause many Mac professionals to start looking at PCs.
<“the PC side will lose some but nowhere near where it will take you to double digits.”>
We’ll see. if it does, How will you try to spin doctor it then?
< “The $199 dollar PC beats the Mac in value when compared.” >
You are ABSOLUTELY right about that because Apple doesn’t sell to that market. My argument has ALWAYS been that when you match a PC with the Macs specs the Mac will either be slightly more, same price, slightly less, or significantly less. Take that $199 PC and equip it with the same hardware and software as can be found on Apple’s low end PC and I will be right.
< “Apples sales will stay non existant because of the economy” >
You’re forgetting the HUGE pent up demand amongst Mac user and several switchers. The numbers certinly would be greater in a better economy but only porportionately so. So, because market share is measured in relation to a competator’s sales for any given quarter, Apple’s market share could easily reach double digits in as little as 9 months.
< “and the fact PC’s are cheaper.” >
But they are NOT cheaper… when you compare both platforms spec for spec in both hardware and software.
<“Apple has no one else to blame but themselves for any loss they incur.”>
Nobody said otherwise. The same way that Nobody can atribute the gain that Apple might experience to anyone but themselves.
< “With over 90% of the computing markets saying something else, I think the opinion of a handful of zealots is hardly worth laying weight too.” >
Which zealots are you talking about? The only comments suggesting that Apple will gain market share have been made on logical market analysis.
“I am curious to why Apple users are so defensive of their platform.”
I’m curious to why PC users as so anxious to spread FUD about the Macintosh
“I can only conclude that they need to justify why they spent money on”
I can only conclude that this FUD spreading is a means to justift why the spent money on a PC.
“something they know deep down probably isn’t that great.”
There goes that FUD engine again.
“A Ferrari, Rolex or Armani wearer feels no need to justify their choice because they know they have something special.”
We’re not trying to justify our choice, just trying to correct those that are so insecure about their watch purchase that they feel compelled to tell everyone that our Rolex is not… a Rolex.
“Macs are reasonable (Dell) quality, OSX is a decent (XP quality)operating system.”
You’re closer with the Dell analogy, but are far off with the XP analogy.
“The fastest G5 maybe the fastest desktop at the moment. Not much to really get excited about.”
If its nothing to get excided about, why is it that the x86’s short stint at achieving speed superiority was something to go soing in the streets about?
Er .. not yet, junior. DOOM 3, though it will be released on Xbox, will still look *TONS BETTER* on a top-shelf gaming PC.
Ooh, what a game to cite… yet another FPS! Yes, computer gaming is truly where all the innovation is going on, and FPS is the only genre that matters, right?
So hey, what will you be playing Soul Calibur 2 on when it comes out. Your PC? Will your nVidia GeForce5 89000 be enough for its incredibly demanding graphics? Better upgrade to an ATI Radeon 11053.2, that will only cost $350.
Enjoying Virtua Fighter 4? How about Guilty Gear X 2? I bet your PC’s $100 Audigy 2 sound card is letting you hear them scream in Japanese in precision Dolby 5.1.
Yes, Suikoden, Xenosaga, and Devil May Cry 2 will all leverage the massive power of your $200 Pentium 4’s front side bus.
Well, let me say, those all run wonderfully on my PS2, and the Dual Shock 2 is an excellent controller.
Have you played GTA3 and Vice City on both a PS2 and a PC? Ever notice how flying the helicopters in Vice City is damn near impossible on a PC?
You see, there’s slightly more to the console versus PC gaming debate than FASTAR BIGGAR GRAPHX GRAFFX GRAFIX!!!! There’s these small issues like “interface” to worry about.
Believe it or not, a keyboard and mouse aren’t the greatest way to play fighting games…
And in terms of ROI, consoles have PCs beaten hands down. A used PS2 goes for $75-$100 nowadays. That isn’t enough to buy a decent high-end video card for a PC. For the cost of a Radeon 9800 Pro (~$300) you could purchase a PS2 and six games. That is how consoles have PCs beaten for gaming.
AMEN, I’m glad someone finnally chimmed in and communicated that DOOM benchmarks aren’t an accurate means to gauge speed.
True Doom dosen’t gague iverall speed but when going cross platform it gives you a feeling.
(this is for Quake III)
Advatages
– Combines a CPU/Memory/Graphic pathway.
– Vendors do recompile for their hardware.
– Well known benchmark.
– Already optimiszed for various systems.
– Use the NPR shader to eliminate graphics card dependency.
Disadvatages
– It’s an fps game without an FBS graph display.
– It leans heavily on the graphics card.
The other thing to note(In a post above I did) is that you must know the exact settings Quake III is running at. If you
don’t (know the settings) the comparisions are useless.
The photoshop product has been enhanced for Apple but I don’t think the same tunning has gone into the other platforms. example P4 , SIMD (?) instructions) or even pushing code onto the GPU. Once A real world test is run with about 50 cross platform apps there should be a good feeling of system to system performance.
Benchmarks are tools a lot like hammers, and males are
wrong abbout hammers working on anything.
Donaldson
“The photoshop product has been enhanced for Apple but I don’t think the same tunning has gone into the other platforms.”
I know one of the engineers at Adobe who is one of the lead programmers on PhotosShop. His name is Chris Cox. he told me that the amount of optomization that goes into the Windows version as compared to the Mac version is SIGNIFICANTLY more. Intel enginners actually come over to help the company optomize their software as best as possible. No such special attention is given to the Mac side according to him.
For the last few months, Photoshop for the first time ran faster on a Windows PC than on a Mac. However, that changed with the introduction of the G5.
“example P4 , SIMD (?) instructions) or even pushing code onto the GPU. Once A real world test is run with about 50 cross platform apps there should be a good feeling of system to system performance.”
Assuming that the cose is depending on the GPU and not the processor, then ya, but all that gauges is the speed of the GPU, not the speed of the computer/processor.
Thats like saying that when you test ram from a inside a Mac and from inside a PC, the performace between the system is the same.
Well, ya….
“Er .. not yet, junior. DOOM 3, though it will be released on Xbox, will still look *TONS BETTER* on a
top-shelf gaming PC.”
The graphics on DOOM 3 are nothing to write home about compared to the graphics on some of the console gaming systems.
“Unless you’re like one of the ignorant masses who can’t tell the picture-quality difference between
composite and RGB video.”
Yeah…. Which is why you convert the S-video into RGB and then run your PS2 through a high res monitor… Or haven’t you figured out how to build a converter yet? Junior.
“Ooh, what a game to cite… yet another FPS! Yes, computer gaming is truly where all the innovation is going on, and FPS is the only genre that matters, right?”
Thank you… I guess I’m not the only one who doesn’t see what’s so great about DOOM 3. Another FPS… Been there. Done that. Fun for the first 10 minutes. Then BORING.
” graphics on DOOM 3 are nothing to write home about compared to the graphics on some of the console gaming systems. “
What games? Could you gives us an example?
“yeah…. Which is why you convert the S-video into RGB and then run your PS2 through a high res monitor…”
LMAO. I hope you are kidding…
>>Windows CE handheld devices are killing Palm, even though Palm OS is superior.
>*cough*
I’m gonna kick your arse Eugenia >:-(
how dare you doubt the mighty palm?
< “I am curious to why Apple users are so defensive of their platform.”
I’m curious to why PC users as so anxious to spread FUD about the Macintosh >
I will explain the Mac user mentality to you, Mac users like to be different. They want to go with a company that has no hopes of any kind of future, and try to make it out to be better than sliced bread.when MS was not the dominant player every Windows user was proud of Windows, loved Windows to death, if you didnt use Windows 3.1 you were dirt. Now that MS is the dominant player, everyone hates em. Bill comes up with something new, they always go back to the old argument ” he stole his GUI from Apple “, when in all reality it was influenced Xerox Parc, where Apple stole the GUI idea as well. In all reality the Mac doesnt do anything that a PC cannot do, saying a Mac makes you more productive is like saying that buying DeWalt tools makes you a better carpenter , or a Cadillac makes you a better driver. Mac users tend to focus on world domination, Linux users, FreeBSD users and BeOS users tend to be more level headed and down to earth as well as realistic.
< I can only conclude that they need to justify why they spent money on”
I can only conclude that this FUD spreading is a means to justift why the spent money on a PC. >
Mac users tend to think anything anybody says against the Mac is FUD. If i was to say OS X and the Mac rocks, The Mac community would say they loved me, whereas when i tell the truth or my opinions on why OS X and the Mac sucks I get flamed,
< “something they know deep down probably isn’t that great.”
There goes that FUD engine again. >
They know the truth, they just dont want to admit it to themselves, dont forget you are dealing with people that if Steve Jobs told them to jump off of the Golden Gate Bridge, they would do it, and they would do it even faster if he promises them a Mac ” Super Computer ” <snicker>
< “A Ferrari, Rolex or Armani wearer feels no need to justify their choice because they know they have something special.”
We’re not trying to justify our choice, just trying to correct those that are so insecure about their watch purchase that they feel compelled to tell everyone that our Rolex is not… a Rolex. >
I find that Mac users are the ones that must justify their purchase, because they are the only ones that must keep repeating to themselves the same old schtick, like a mantra, no matter how many times they are disproved, they still insist that the Mac is better. After hearing a Mac User at a LUG meeting talking about OS X and trying to recruit people for his ” cause “, I very publicly lit him up, and I asked him who was he trying to convince that the Mac was best me or himself, Havent seen him again.
< “Macs are reasonable (Dell) quality, OSX is a decent (XP quality)operating system.”
You’re closer with the Dell analogy, but are far off with the XP analogy.>
Actually XP has improved alot and many Linux/UNIX users will tell you that XP is a very quality OS, Only Mac users tend to ter down XP and come up with some lies about how they lost their start button or how XP blue screens and their computer screens flash and their projects were gone, oh and dont forget that they, beep beepity beep, something I havent seen in 12 years in the computer industry. and the list goes on of untruths and falsities.
< “The fastest G5 maybe the fastest desktop at the moment. Not much to really get excited about.”
If its nothing to get excided about, why is it that the x86’s short stint at achieving speed superiority was something to go soing in the streets about? >
How come it was even tho it has been proven that the x86 is faster, Mac users are still screamin in the streets that it is a lie, and when Adobe said it prefers the PC, Adobe got over 1,500 flame letters from Mac users. They are very insecure, When Apple cut support of shake and logic for PC, you didnt see open letters to Apple telling them that they are a–holes and that they didnt know what they were talking about and that Apple didnt know what it was doing, life went on and those people just went with different solutions. PC users didnt go all hail mary and claim they were victimizd, yet when App support gets cut for the Mac or if someone bad mouths Macs, watch out.
“I will explain the Mac user mentality to you, Mac users like to be different.”
yes, but not for the sheer sake of being different. Rather, they simply want a different tool because they feel its considerably better than the alternative.
“They want to go with a company that has no hopes of any kind of future”
if they were to want that, they certainly wouldn’t be choosing Apple. Apple is currently one of only two repeatedly profitable consumer computer manufacturers today. But then, something tells me you were just trolling again.
“and try to make it out to be better than sliced bread.”,/i>
Nah, we don’t need to over state it. it is what it is… a great platform.
[i]”when MS was not the dominant player every Windows user was proud of Windows, loved Windows to death, if you didn’t use Windows 3.1 you were dirt.”
I bet you long for those days don’t you.
“Now that MS is the dominant player, everyone hates em.”
Unfortunately it has more to do with Microsoft’s draconian business practices rather than this lost underdog status that you seem to be eluding to.
“Bill comes up with something new, they always go back to the old argument ” he stole his GUI from Apple “
First of all, its not Bill that coes up with something that is new, its Microsoft. Second, Microsoft doesn’t come up with anything new or innovative. The fact that Microsoft achieved its monopoly status to which it has since illegally abused was based on code and concepts stolen from Apple. IE: Microsoft success is based on Apple refining concepts and unfinished code that it purchased from Xerox.
“when in all reality it was influenced Xerox Parc, where Apple stole the GUI idea as well.”
Again, Apple PURCHASED concepts and unfinished code that it from Xerox. NOTHING was stolen from them… unlike the way that Microsoft did with Apple.
“In all reality the Mac doesn’t do anything that a PC cannot do
It does plenty, not unlike the way a Windows PC can do many things that the Mac can’t do.
“saying a Mac makes you more productive is like saying that buying DeWalt tools makes you a better carpenter”
If DeWalt tools made you more efficient, then they would make you a better carpenter.
“or a Cadillac makes you a better driver.”
If the Cadillac added features that made you drive more safely (for example) then it would in fact make you a better driver.
“Mac users tend to focus on world domination”
Perhaps there are some that might, but most simply want to continue using our computers as we always have.
“Linux users, FreeBSD users and BeOS users tend to be more level headed and down to earth as well as realistic.”
Thats a very broad generalization.
“Mac users tend to think anything anybody says against the Mac is FUD.”
Not at all. Typically, we’re able to spot FUD when it is indeed FUD as is the case with most of your comments posted in this thread.
“If i was to say OS X and the Mac rocks, The Mac community would say they loved me, whereas when i tell the truth or my opinions on why OS X and the Mac sucks I get flamed”
Consider the fact that the mac does not suck, you WOULD be rightfully flammed.
“They know the truth, they just dont want to admit it to themselves”
We admit the truth to ourselves all the time. The Mac is a wonderful OS/platform.
“dont forget you are dealing with people that if Steve Jobs told them to jump off of the Golden Gate Bridge, they would do it, and they would do it even faster if he promises them a Mac ” Super Computer “
More trolling again. Sigh…
“I find that Mac users are the ones that must justify their purchase”
Hardly. What you will find is PC fan-boys like yourself trying to make himself feel better about his computer purchase… not by talking about its unique advantages, but rather offering disparaging remarks about other platforms. If that doesn’t scream, “justify my computer purchase for me dammit”, i don’t know what does.
“because they are the only ones that must keep repeating to themselves the same old schtick, like a mantra, no matter how many times they are disproved”
Are you trying to tell me that you’ve disproven anything? Hah! LOL!
“they still insist that the Mac is better.”
In many instances it is indeed better. In other areas, other OSes/platforms are better. The fact that you can’t recognize this shows your immediate bias.
“After hearing a Mac User at a LUG meeting talking about OS X and trying to recruit people for his ” cause “, I very publicly lit him up, and I asked him who was he trying to convince that the Mac was best me or himself, Haven’t seen him again.”
I bet that helped you justify that PC purchase for yourself didn’t it.
” Actually XP has improved alot”
It most certainly has.
“and many Linux/UNIX users will tell you that XP is a very quality OS”
In many areas it is (when compared to competing platforms). Similarly, it is better than competing platforms.
“Only Mac users tend to ter down XP and come up with some lies about how they lost their start button or how XP blue screens and their computer screens flash and their projects were gone”
You don’t get out much do you. I’d like to welcome you to a little place called Usenet. Take a visit then come back. That perspective will instantly change.
“oh and don’t forget that they, beep beepity beep, something I havent seen in 12 years in the computer industry.”
Ya, a hate it when people beep beepity beep, something. That gets annoying. (For those reading… i don’t know what the heck is talking about either.)
“How come it was even tho it has been proven that the x86 is faster, Mac users are still screamin in the streets that it is a lie”
Where is it proven that x86 is faster? Nobody has proven it yet with the introduction of the G5.
“and when Adobe said it prefers the PC, Adobe got over 1,500 flame letters from Mac users.”
Adobe has never been shy about promoting, which platform offered the best performance for their software, and up until recently, that platform has always been Apple’s Macintosh.
Advocates of more commonly used IBM compatible computers have cried foul whenever individuals had mentioned photoshop benchmarks that detailed the Macintosh’s speed advantages over that of THEIR preferred system. They claimed that Adobe optimized their code for the Macintosh and didn’t offer the same courtesy to its Windows version.
I was always curious about this and spoke to individuals at Adobe about this matter. What I learned is that the opposite is true. Intel and Adobe work closely together, spending excess hours to make sure that the Adobe’s Windows software is extremely optimized for Intel’s Pentium style chips. As far as the Macintosh version is concerned, I was informed that it gets the standard run through by Adobe’s programmers with no special attention. All in all, the Windows version gets roughly twice as much optimization time as does the version for Apple’s Macintosh.
Because Apple’s then-current processor was showing its age, Adobe was appropriately promoting the fastest platform for their software. Now that Apple has incorporated IBM’s PowerPC 970 chips into its lineup, Apple has taken back the performance crown it recently lost.
Adobe’s Intel-specific kudos shows that the company is, and always has been FAIR with regard to showcasing the platform, which runs its software best. Now that the tides have turned, you can no longer make the all to often made incorrect claim: “Adobe just optimizes its software for the Mac” excuses for their platform’s inferior speed.
you should have lived it up during that brief era while you had the chance because now its over.
“They are very insecure, When Apple cut support of shake and logic for PC”
Huh? Mac users were insecure about cutting support for shake and logic for PC thus causing the PC community to experience a taste of what happens occasionally to some Mac software. If anything Mac users were saying, “right back atcha!”
“you didn’t see open letters to Apple telling them that they are a–holes and that they didn’t know what they were talking about and that Apple didn’t know what it was doing”
Although you didn’t hear them from Mac users you most CERTAINLY did from PC users.
“life went on and those people just went with different solutions.”
Some went with different solutions and many others bought Macs.
“PC users didn’t go all hail mary and claim they were victimizd”
Are you kidding? Just do a search for Logic Audio and you will come across COUNTLESS threads doing EXACTLY what you claim that they did not do.
“yet when App support gets cut for the Mac or if someone bad mouths Macs, watch out.”
Like Microsoft did with IE? If anything, all the Mac users said, “Who the F*** cares.” We have far better browsers anyways.
Mac users are inscure, much like pure linux users. They walk into a store, see a lot of cool software and devices and realize there not for them. Mac users run around screaming how were the best and this attracts people to rip you down. (Just think Gary Hart telling the reporters to find something bad about him.) Well Mac just said it has the first persconal 64bit computer. Hmmm alpha was first, fastest 64 bit cpu, nope Opteron, Alpha. Most inovated hardware, no the preliminary hardware documents look a loot like the current Opterons. (Apple is not as good actually because it uses an UMA memory style and thus those two cpus are going into the same memory system ala intel smp, Opteron’s NUMA shall be faster.) Best OS? BSD is BSD? Best UI? yes, I think of the current comercial shipping UI’s it’s the best. Most applications no, .
Macs are good computers. Each variety, PC, MAC, and Alpha have their uses. I personally sum it up with number of buttons on the mice.
1 – Simpleton, basic non complicated users ala MAC
2 – Advanced Users, able to understand a command line and
how things work.
3 – Power users, able to manipulate the atoms themselves.
And yes, that was a troll, large, gleaming, hairy, and bug eyed TROLL!
Donaldson
“Mac users are inscure”
No we’re not. However, individuals that feel the necessity to doubly other’s prefered operating system might be labled that way.
“much like pure linux users.”
No we’re not. However, individuals that feel the necessity to doubly other’s prefered operating system might be labled that way.
“They walk into a store, see a lot of cool software and devices and realize there not for them.”
Some of those devices are for us, and some aren’t. Do you feel insecure when you walk into the Apple store, or when you visit sourceforge?
“Mac users run around screaming how were the best”
I can assure you none of us do that, despite the fact that in many instances our computers are the best.
“and this attracts people to rip you down.”
Let’s see, nobody on this board has been doing that, and yet when someebody starts tearing down your FUD you feel the necessity to offer disparaging comments towards alternative OS users. This causes us to want to rip you down.
“(Just think Gary Hart telling the reporters to find something bad about him.)”
Ya, thats a perfect example about how we alt OS users feel about people like you that have nothing better to do than detract from the strenths that alternative OS users have.
“Well Mac just said it has the first persconal 64bit computer.”
I can assure you beyond a reasonable doubt that “Mac DID NOT say it has the first persconal 64bit computer. Apple did however.
“Hmmm alpha was first”
Some might argue that these were not processors for “personal computers”
“fastest 64 bit cpu, nope Opteron, Alpha”
Tell me, which benchmarks told you that?
“Most inovated hardware, no the preliminary hardware documents look a loot like the current Opterons.”
Apple never claimed that the G5 was the “Most inovated hardware”, and yet I havn;t heard anyone at AMD claim that title either. it looks like you’re pulling that one out of your rear end.
“(Apple is not as good actually because it uses an UMA memory style and thus those two cpus are going into the same memory system ala intel smp, Opteron’s NUMA shall be faster.)”
Something tells me that you probably heard that comment from another discussion thread and copied it for use in here, because you have exhibited that you don’t know for much about computers.
“Best OS? BSD is BSD?
yes, BSD is BSD. Is it the best OS. Some certinly think so.
“Best UI? yes, I think of the current comercial shipping UI’s it’s the best. Most applications no, .”
Are you saying that BSD has the best shipping UI?
Sigh… some people really don’t get it.
“Macs are good computers. Each variety, PC, MAC, and Alpha have their uses. I personally sum it up with number of buttons on the mice.
You would too.
“And yes, that was a troll, large, gleaming, hairy, and bug eyed TROLL!”
Which should cause your IP to be banned.
Here’s the thing: Apple has a lot more to fear from Linux than Windows.
When Linux finally hits that number 2 spot on the desktop, and there’s not too many people who are saying it won’t ever do that, you’ll see a massive drop-off in Mac application support. We’re already starting to see hints of this – the Linux client for NWN, for instance, came out before the MacOS X one. Some serious engineering applications like ANSYS don’t exist for MacOS X, but are available for Linux.
Apple is not going to wither away and die. However, I do think that they will change into a software and consumer hardware company in a few years. That will be a win for everyone, I think.
Seeing the G5 as Apple’s savior is naive. What’s going to save Apple is their iPod and music buying software.
-Erwos
you are right about x11 and all your other explanations.
i will give a try one more time… 🙂
– 2501
ps: but i see the linux market growing too fast. poss, over
80%/90% of gov and corp servers would be running linux by
2006((i feel sorry for solaris and unix)).
+++ appls for linux. what about mac???
One of the reasons the Mac has lagged behind the PC in popularity is because the PC offers such a wide variations of hardware options, and the open architecture encourages competitive inovation on the platform.
Apple has been reluctant to open their platform largely because the lion’s share of their revenue has come from selling Mac hardware. Now that they’re developing alternative revenue streams, and are less reliant on the Mac, I’m thinking they may be more receptive to opening up the Mac OS X to licensing to 3rd parties, perhaps permitting a clone market to eventually emerge.
Apple has been stuck in a Catch-22 for a number of years – they couldn’t afford to open the Mac because they were unable to afford the lost revenue. Unfortunately, without opening the Mac, the platform was permenantly stuck in a niche market. This may finally be a way out for them. They can afford the immediate loss of revenue on the Mac (cost of opportunity) while allowing a clone market to help grow the market share of the platform (profit down the road – a smaller piece, but a bigger pie).
Anything that allows Apple to diversify their revenue stream is a good thing for the Mac!