“Ubuntu is a strong desktop distro, but it falls short for some users in a few areas. Where are the multimedia codecs and DVD support, and what’s with all the brown, for heaven’s sake? If you’d like multimedia support with a minty fresh theme, try Linux Mint 2.2, an Ubuntu-based distro that throws in support for Flash 9, Windows Media Format, DVDs, MP3s, and troublesome wireless cards.”
I guess some people can use this and get all the support they need from Ubuntu
As soon as I installed Ubuntu a year or so ago, the first things I found myself needing were these softwares.
Ubuntu makes it pretty easy to install the “proprietary bits” if you are interested. They just don’t do it by default, which I think is the correct decision. I’m running 6.06 and I have no problem with Flash 9, Windows Media Format, DVDs, MP3, and I’m using an Intel Pro wireless card.
Even if you think it is OK to install this stuff (like I have), I applaud distros not doing it by default, and giving the user the choice.
A first time wizard or installation option giving you the choice would be even better imho… not to mention more sincere. Most home users install these anyway.
Edited 2007-03-08 23:22
I think something like this is planned in 7.04, if I remember correctly. Anyone else have the details?
Its discussed in launchapd. Here:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/easy-codec-installatio…
I saw something about it in the 7.04 review that was posted no long ago. The link is here: http://www.masuran.org/2007/03/05/ubuntu-704-preview
Find: “Easy Codec Installation”
Screenshot here: http://www.masuran.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/codecs.png
Also, as long as people know about ubuntuguide.org there isn’t much need for newer users to install separate distros for the sake of getting a handful of packages they need.
Distros like this–and to a lesser degree ones like MEPIS and Freespire–or more like suggestions for Ubuntu than distros of their own. If Mint becomes popular, this suggests to Ubuntu that they should have a sibling release that ships with proprietary codecs and drivers out of the box. Obviously the new codec finder and accelerated desktop configurator are not automatic enough for some people. You might be tempted to call these people lazy or self-interested, but considering how easy it would be to simply roll a Blobuntu release, you could say the same thing about the Ubuntu project.
Exactly, enabling the repositories or adding a few should not be such a hassle. The Ubuntu documentation actually provides with the details for installing most of the apps or plug-ins required. A new user can have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html or even download Ubuntu install guide available in pdf format https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/pdf/ubuntu/C/desktopguide.pdf. One would need broadband connection for such thing though. Synaptic makes every thing look so easy.
Edited 2007-03-09 05:33
you could also look at it the other way. I applaud distros that DO install it by default. Its simple enough to type apt-get remove, giving users a choice.
Hiding mp3 support under a cryptic name that you would never guess on your own (gstreamer, etc.) without searching through forums is not something I call a real choice. If it were a real choice they wouldnt be going out of their way to bury these things in the repositories to make them harder to find.
You really should consider upgrading to Ubu 6.10 –
I had a bad time with 6.06, until I upgraded,
and then it was plain sailing.
You really should consider upgrading to Ubu 6.10 –
I had a bad time with 6.06, until I upgraded
I’ve had no trouble with 6.06 (except that _funny_ X.Org patch). I specifically am staying with 6.06 because of the LTS (long-term support). I am a professional developer. I use this laptop to do software development and I can’t afford to get too close to the bleeding edge. Things have to stay very stable, I can’t jump to the latest kernel (E.g., I user Parallels for when I need to do Windows .NET development. This often will not work with the latest kernel).
That’s why I think it is very important that there always be one version that is supported longer than the normal releases. This gives those who want to see the latest, greatest Gnome or KDE something to use, while satisfying those of us who need a more stable set of packages due to professional requirements or personal preference.
The Linux Mint CD is a “live CD”, these codecs are available from the get-go.
You do not have to install the CD to enjoy all the codecy goodness it offers.
Another good one is at http://www.dreamlinux.com.br/
A live CD with all multimedia supported from boot.
Think outside the box you guys….
OK
[—–>]——>
I’ve always wondered what live CDs were for besides the 2 purposes I can think of:
1. Rescue CD’s
2. Test CD’s for determining if my system is compatible before installing.
I’ve never really wanted to run an OS off a CD for very long. Programs take WAY to long to start up. Knoppix is absolutely beautiful, but I wouldn’t want to run it for very long.
Just wondering, NOT being critical.
Now, back in the box
[<——-]<——-
Sometimes people need to use a live cd on a machine they do not have complete access to, like work/uni/school/friends computers……
Those are two very good reasons, and are sufficient reason for liveCDs to exist IMHO. Still, I’ll try to answer.
One possible reason would be people who want to take their desktop with them, without taking their computer. Any windows box you sit at (whose owner lets you insert CDs and reboot) becomes your Linux box (if slower, since it’s running from CD).
Another reason is to let people try out beta software they may not want on their desktop. Not sure I really want (metisse/beryl/fill in your own) but I might want to see what they look like and if they are a good fit for me, without installing a bunch of stuff on mny day to day machine.
Edited 2007-03-08 23:32
Ah, and in my bathroom is a good example of why. I have an old Toshiba PIII-700 laptop. It barely boots, won’t accept a replacement hard drive, and the screen is dying. The hard drive bit the dust a long time ago, and it’s been iffy accepting replacements.
It currently boots off a DSL image. It runs firefox (wish it was opera!) for when the room mates take baths, and it has access to my music collection over NFS; thus, with XMMS, I have tunes in the shower.
I do expect it to conk out any day now, but it’s lasted for months as such.
ok, seriously… If you cant put down your laptop/firefox for long enough to take a bath, I think you have a problem
In Sweden it’s a crime to do that, bringing dangerous electronical devices on the edge of breaking apart into your bathroom when they are connected.
Aha, I had no idea. They really look after us don’t they 😉
yeah, i agree that dream linux is a distro with alot of promise. what killed me was the ndiswrapper and wireless configuration. maybe you have a clue to pass on ?
yeah, i agree that dream linux is a distro with alot of promise. what killed me was the ndiswrapper and wireless configuration. maybe you have a clue to pass on ?
What are you asking? Why or how? Why? Because people don’t want to have to set it up manually. How? I’m sure it’s just another GUI util that does all of the ndiswrapper-utils and modprobe work for you. All-in-all, a nice thing to have IMO.
Okay but I thought one of the reasons Ubuntu and others did not distribute the media codecs directly was because of legal restrictions set by the codec proprietor?
How does Mint get around distributing Windows Media codecs for example without breaking the law?
How does Mint get around distributing Windows Media codecs for example without breaking the law?
If you look at Ubuntu, they have a completely different reason for not distributing these CODEC’s, just like Fedora has a complete different reason beyond the so-called ‘legal’ aspects.
Ultimately, it is up to the end user to know whether or not the application or software they’re about to install is legal in their own country; Mint gets alway with it because it is hosted in country(s) whoses laws don’t recognise the limitations placed on the respective technologies/files.
Large amounts of EULA’s and limited warranties have no meaning; for example, in New Zealand, if you purchase a computer with only a one year warranty, the limitation is invalid as the legal requirement is defined as ‘fair wear and tear’, and for a computer, the expected life of it before a fault occurs is around 2-3 years, thus making those expensive ‘extended warranties’ nothing more than a waste of time.
Same goes for Microsoft and its claim of ‘limited liability’ when it comes to software; when they sell their software, they’re still liable to ensure that their software works as intended, with good faith; if the customer finds, for example, that the piece of software doesn’t work as intended, or Microsoft fails to disclose known defects with their product, Microsoft is there fore liable for ensuring that a resolution is found or in the case of a physical product, provided with a replacement piece of hardware.
pls………..just use automatix.
No !
Bad boy, read my previous post.
Yes! use Automatix.
Automatix of today, mid-March,2007 is a lot better than the Automatix of yesteryear that everyone gives horror stories about.
Today’s Automatix works okay, and has saved me a LOT of Windows-Refugee-type aggravation re. installing things EASILY!
Emmmmm…..
Todays Automatix is not working !
http://www.getautomatix.com/
my saddened
…it actually uses some of the Ubuntu repositories.
We need a new word for Ubuntu variants. These are more like “flavors” of Ubuntu than separate distros.
feisty should help a lot with these issues.
there is the easy codec installer. if you try to play a format and don’t have the codec, it will show you how to install it.
click’n’run will make it easy to install things like dvd players.
restricted-manager looks like it will solve the driver issues.
and if you can’t manage to change the theme then you probably wont find it to easy to download and install a whole new distribution 🙂
great idea, shame it isn’t kubuntu based, due to my own personal preferences.
but i really like the idea of packaging in all the proprietary bits. i don’t like to rely on having the internet handy.
Maybe I’ll take Linux Mint, change the theme to a blue one and release it as Bluebuntu.
Or theme it after an obscure British sci-fi show and call it Whobuntu.
There’s nothing obscure about the Doctor!!
Doesn’t play lots of codecs by default so does that fall short?. Why should Windows Media Format be a down side to ubuntu, after all it’s a WINDOWS closed format.
If Linux mint want to pay the greedy buggers(toned down) for mp3 licence then that’s their loss, I’d rather just download the codec and not let the disto pay $60,000 for mp3.
Ah, but you and I know how. Other people probably don’t- especially if they’re used to Windows, even if they knew how to get an mp3 codec other than just with the program they downloaded, they’ll have to find a different program and a different way.
The problems that Automatix and Linux Mint are trying to solve, I solved (as much as I needed to) by adding repositories.
“Doesn’t play lots of codecs by default”
Only the codecs people actually want to use. I doubt there’s many people out there complaining about lack of ogg vorbis support by default in windows. Where, there’s a great deal complaining about no default mp3, wma/wmv or flash. As to why windows media format should be a downside, it’s because people use it and would like to keep doing so without dropping into the command line in linux. More importantly, most people don’t even know ‘what’ wma is. They just know that “this linux thing is too stupid to even play my music. This is just a toy compared to windows.”
Thats a misconception. You don’t have to use the commandline to install anything ubuntu least of all software that are in the repos. Most people tell users to use the commandline tools for their convenience, having to tell a user to open synaptic and check this and that is not as easy as saying do a sudo apt-get such and such. I’ve never installed the codecs using the commandline at all. Doing a search fro gstreamer in synaptic will yield will give you the same results and imo is much easier. Installing the codecs have become super easy Fiesty as they prompt you if you want to install the first time you open one.
Linux Mint looks interesting but I don’t really see the point. First of all the use the godawful usp. That thing is an eyesore and its designed like crap. My whole thing is that sure the effort is nice but if you are not erally adding anything that can’t be done already with Ubuntu, why bother. Such is the nature of open source, scratch your own itch and all that.
^^ – you got that right.
As a Linux-enthusiastic Windows Refugee, I can confirm that sentiment,above!
I don’t ‘compile’ and have zero intention of learning to.
I avoid Command Line and Terminal like the plague!
Windows is mainstream(sorry) and most people in the world are now thoroughly accustomed to ‘a computer’ being about as difficult to drive as a modern Japanese car.
You have no idea how many refugees bang on your Linux door every day of life, seeking conversion, and are turned away/off! by the incredibly old-fashioned(as they see it) ways of Linux-tweaking that indeed may be very useful and all-controlling, but is frankly a pain-in-the-neck(maybe lower)
Ubuntu and Automatix, Synaptic Pkg,Mngr and Add/Remove have changed much of that, and I am now finally using a Linux system after 6 yrs. of wanting-to, but was turned off, until now, until Ubuntu 6.10
I’ve been using Linux Mint on a spare box just to try it out… I have to say that it is an excellent operating system in itself. Yes… it is compatible with Ubuntu’s repos, but it’s a distro on it’s on. I give thanks and made a donation to them for their work. Everything configured automatically and only had to edit X from listening on tcp… so no complaints here. – Thanks Guys.
Its possible to install KDE, so at least I’m not stuck with an ugly interface.
I think I’ll try it, so I can say I’m running an OS named Bianca 🙂
If you install KDE it should be Bianka
No, Bianka sounds like a computer program, Bianca on the other hand is sexy.
In fact, I do not know any Biancas who are not 100% sexy and 100% user friendly !
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/index.php?os=Linux+Mint
I think this is a great idea. Having normal functionality pre-installed is incredibly attractive. This might make me finally install Linux next to my XP and BeOS partitions.
archiesteel is correct above where he states that it is more of a variant of Ubuntu than a separate entity. The positives of this distro include:
1)It uses Ubuntu repos,
2) Most of the online help for Ubuntu also applies to Mint,
3) The theme is well done,
4)The start menu is the best I’ve used…way better than suse’s SLAB…better than Vista’s (yes, I am aware that this is subjective;-),
5) Amarok is my favorite music organizer/player
6) And of course the codecs that get all the attention
I’ve had it installed on a spare box since the release of Bianca, and I’ve been nothing but pleased with it.
How exactly do they provide all this support? are they using the blatantly illegal win32-codecs or the just-possibly-a-bit-illegal (patents) stuff in ffmpeg? or the fluendo gstreamer bits? or something else?
Illegal? How it is illegal? I live in Brazil, and i don’t remember these things being illegal here. The world is big man, and US laws is only valid in US.
Linux Mint is from Ireland.
Copyright law is valid anywhere in the world with a vaguely enforceable copyright regime, which includes Ireland and Brazil. win32-codecs includes directly copied .dll files from Windows Media Player and Quicktime, in clear violation of their licenses and hence Microsoft’s and Apple’s copyright. ffmpeg, MP3 and libdvdcss are only in trouble for patents, which is different. Hence my question.
You are in part right, and in part you are wrong.
It is perfectly legal to distribute copyrighted material IF the downloader has a valid license for Windows.
In USA it is – according to the “Betamax decision” not inherently illegal to distribute copyrighted material IF “substantial non-infringing use can be made of them”. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer#Legal_controversy )
What MS EULA and Apple EULA state doesn’t matter in many countries. Denmark is one of those, since both EULAs are requiring me to surrender rights I cannot surrender according to danish Copyright Law.
Copyright can be enforced in most parts of the world, but what can and cannot be enforced differs from country to country. In Denmark cracking DRM is illegal unless it is necessary in order to use software/digital work as intended (like playing a DVD in Linux).
Things are NOT as black’n’white as you want to make it look like.
The win32-codecs ARE not inherently illegal – not even in USA.
EDIT: fxied a typo
Edited 2007-03-09 10:26
There is nothing illegal in using software that uses US-patented technology. These patents are void in most of the world except for USA. So nothing illegal there at all.
The win32-codecs are not blatantly illegal. Your hilarious claim shows how biased you are, or how ignorant you are. Choose whatever fits best.
Fact is that both situations are grey-zoned. Violating software patents is illegal in some coutries – and distributing copyrighted material without a license is legal in certain situations – also in USA.
In situations like that a lawyer can be nice to have.
The Debian offspring just keeps improving with every new generation and Mint and Mepis step over K/Ubuntu to carry the torch. Here’s another review of Mint, including an interview with the main LinuxMint developer: http://knolinux.com/2007/03/01/linux-mint.aspx
The interview explains that ‘What really sets Linux Mint apart from other distributions is not the fact that it includes multimedia codecs, it’s its vision of what a desktop can be, its fast release cycle and its flexibility, its taste for innovation and cutting-edge technologies. Anybody can install codecs on top of their distribution, that’s not what we’re here for. We’re here to improve the Linux desktop, bring together the best innovations from other distributions and add our own.’
The review concludes: ‘Mint is based on Ubuntu, but doesn’t act like Ubuntu in any way, shape or form. In the Month I have used this little gem, I have come to love the fact that I am in complete control of my system that works. The one lacking item would be 3D, but that has been addressed as to why by clem and we should see this sooner rather than later and honestly I can wait. This is by far the most complete Linux distro out there and is fully functional in a way that hardly any OS in the world can claim out of the box.’
Well done. Linux on the desktop has just taken another step forward.
I strongly support this move by Linux Mint 🙂
This is the stance that ESR is taking too – get the Linux OSS **user-numbers up**, and then (when the numbers have reached critical-mass), the “big push” for open-source drivers can be made.
Another BIG help in the hardware-support area will be KDE 4 with its “Solid” hardware-detection library. That will help big-time!
In the real world, many newcomers to Linux and the rest of OSS just want stuff to work – they don’t give a rat’s patootie about “nasty evil binary drivers”.
Linux is being adopted at such a rate now that in say two years time, the “big push” can be made then. Until then, the **number ONE** priority is to get the user-numbers up…. 🙂
Edited 2007-03-09 02:08
I’m thinking that in two years, when everything appears to be working for these users to a satisfactory level, they wont care a whole lot about a ‘big push’ and neither will the hardware manufacturers who will likely have less incentive to open up anything. I don’t think that gaining apathetic users are worth compromising principles over, but that’s me.
I’ve lurked here for about two years and finally decided to register. I futzed around with a couple distros — Fedora Core 3 and Slackware, specifically — a few years back but returned to Windows. Mint, though. This is it. I dislike this idiom, but it “just works”. As I type, I’m ripping a DVD, downloading a torrent and listening to Amarok. This is on a three year old computer with subpar RAM and a less-than-sophisticated user. Only one hitch thus far: Azureus doesn’t work. But I’ve got bittorrent and gnome-btdownload installed and it’s rolling like nobody’s business. Seriously, that’s been my one issue in the last couple weeks I’ve been using Bianca.
It’s weird. I’ve never felt like a shill before, but here I am. Linux Mint is on my computer, and it’s going to stay. Can’t wait for the XFCE edition. Kudos to the Mint team.
So how are you ripping the DVD?
I am looking for a DVDshrink like program for Linux but haven’t found it yet.
Check out K3b. It should provide most necessary features.
I used AcidRip. Took a while, but it was my first rip ever (Windows or Linux) and worked like a charm.
This is the way it should be. If most users want these things installed by default they should be. Then let the few anal retentive flaming oss super heros who dont want it work extra to take it out if they want to
. I know ubuntu, and several other distros seem to be in denial about the state of their wireless support. This mentions support for more wireless, so I will install it and see if this isnt yet another distro that just keeps telling themselves that wireless is acceptable until they begin to believe their own bull.
To be honest id really like to know what the deal is with ubuntu installing HALF of ndiswrapper.. If your going to make the module part of the distro you might as well make the whole thing (ndiswrapper-common + utils) part of the distro. Whats the point of the needless extra work (yes, I am fully aware that linux and oss is proudly founded upon the idea there is nothing more glorious than needless extra work).
Edited 2007-03-09 05:51
It seems like people are always forgetting about Ubuntuguide. I had no problems following the instructions there. Everyone can copy-paste.
And for those who don’t like the command line, there is EasyUbuntu and Automatix. And let’s not forget about the automatic codec installation in Feisty.
And maybe I seem ignorant here, but doesn’t Mepis already does everything Mint aims for?
I’ve tried Linux Mint ‘Bea’ for some time, and while it’s basically Ubuntu+codecs/drivers, there is also a lot of work done on various improvements in the distro and desktop.
Like this: http://shots.linuxquestions.org/original/Linux%20Mint%202.2…
I wish other distros would do that! And maybe, now that they have seen it implemented somewhere, they will. Or at least they will start thinking about it.
Furthermore, the developers are really open to feedback from their users and the forum is very good.
Edited 2007-03-09 08:42
Which version of Ubuntu is the current Mint based on?
It would make sense for it to be Ubuntu LTSs, but I a just wondering.
I’ve tried to test it, but it didn’t work – It hangs after the loading screen.
Oh well … back to Xubuntu.
before you do that -> { Alt-Ctrl-Delete } when it happens.
Does anybody know the name of that start menu applet? I had it installed on ubuntu, but then had to format my machine and I forgot how it’s called… If any of you guys have mint intalled and righ-clicked on it and told me what’s written in the “About” dialog box, i would really apreciate it. Thanx.
Just do a google search and install Automatix2, it will handle all of your codec needs painlessly: Flash, java, vmplayer, etc., etc.
I’m running Ubuntu 6.10 and Slackware 11.
I won’t have to edit a config file to get correct video resolution on my bog standard Dell laptop with its Intel 950 graphics chip.
This has been a known issue for about 18 months now, and so far I’ve yet to find a distro that just f’n works out of the box.
—
I have a few qualms about editing a config file, I mean, I want to do it about as much as I want to handle radioactive waste with an oven mitt.
But I’ve agreed to “test pilot” a few distros for a friend of mine who doesn’t want to use Vista. And for her, having to go to the command line At. All. is a deal breaker.
(And no, she won’t buy a Mac.)
But I’ve agreed to “test pilot” a few distros for a friend of mine who doesn’t want to use Vista. And for her, having to go to the command line At. All. is a deal breaker.
Editing a config file doesn’t mean dropping down to the command line – there’s nothing preventing anyone from editing a system file with Kate.
I’m wondering, though…have you asked her *why* she was so adamant about not using the command line *at all* (or why you yourself seem to despise it so)? I’m not saying she’s not entitled to this sine qua non condition, but I’m wondering why someone would be so opposed to what is simply another way to communicate with the computer.
I can understand that some people feel intimidated by the CLI, however it’s really not that difficult. Secretaries and office clerks used to use it all the time back in the DOS days – have we become collectively dumber than we were twenty-five years ago? I certainly hope not…
If you’d like multimedia support with a minty fresh theme, try Linux Mint 2.2…
what if i want another feature present on another distro? should i once again get a complete install of another linux?
this kind of offer is just plain pain. rather that telling your users, you want this feature? then install this software.
instead you get, install this os.
what a pain. what a waste.
..especially if a simpler methods are available.
I just tried Bianca on liveCD. Its one of the few distros that correctly detected all the hardware on my laptop.
Problem: It didn’t mount my NTFS parition 🙁
I love the start menu! Its so easy…
It was too hard to go back and forth between my Windows network shares (automounted) and the local system. Most of Gnome’s dialog boxes didn’t have a “Network” option and adding it to Natiuls’ Places didn’t help.
The new theme is nice. But Gnome is still ugly.
It just doesn’t say “Bianca” to me. The Bianca I know is a sexy, fun, smart young woman, and this distro just didn’t capture that aspect of her name.
I may not like this distro but I <3 Bianca.