Amiga has released a new article, this time regarding AmigaOS4’s new Gaming-API written by Steffen Haeuser. If you are interested to ask Hyperion and Amiga employees questions then note that some of them frequently participate at AmigaWorld‘s forums or chatroom.
AmigaOne-XE motherboards are finally shipping in quantity. A picture of the boards from an Italian supplier:
http://www.soft3.net/pages/boards_full.php
Alan Redhouse recently reported that Eyetech is shipping the boards in the following order:
1) to dealers
2) to developers who ordered the SE previously and decided to change to the XE
3) to board purchasers by order date
4) to system purchasers by order date.
To get a clear view on the direction the ‘Power Amiga Platform’ partners are taking, check out Alan’s recent AmigaOne presentation:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=355
Hyperion has already started advertising for AmigaOS4, check out these nice banners:
http://simoami.com/images/banners/aos4banner.gif
http://simoami.com/images/banners/aos4static.gif
If yes, it could be a good idea. The Amiga had some exceptional games. Whereas Linux is still lacking a gaming API.
First of all, please, no comments about the GUI. Everyone with at least one eye can tell that it’s one of those amazingly ugly GUI designs which only a programmer would care to create and use, and won’t be in the final release unless Hyperion want to be the laughing stock of the Amiga community.
Secondly, it’s interesting to see in which directions they turn their work. AmigaInput isn’t so surprising, considering that Hyperion is a games company.
About the implementation:
Frieden brothers, et al, I hope you won’t place the new AI_XXXX_YYYYYYY.library files straight into LIBS:, since it might turn out unnecessarily crowded, instead placing them in a designated drawer in DEVS:, as is the case with Datatypes, DOSdrivers, Monitors and Keymaps.
Also, you seem to have missed the two-button joysticks and joypads. I use the old SEGA Master System joypads on my Amiga since ages, and they’re supported in a fair share of games already.
I once was a huge amiga fan! I would really love to see this platform back in the shops. It’s still amazing how amazing fast a 25 mhz amiga 4000 was compared to much higher clocked PCs and very efficient with the memory as well.
Mike, thanks for the link to the Eyetech presentation. 🙂
That story is typical of the experiences of people who work for companies that have run out of cash flow.
Fortunately, the Amiga OS 4 is being done by another company (Hyperion), and the AmigaOne hardware is being sold by another company (Eyetech). Amiga Inc provide only the brand name, a web site, and general encouragement.
If Amiga Inc closed down, the AmigaOne+OS 4 project would continue. Only the DE stuff based on Tao’s technology would be affected.
I guess that would be possible as it’s written in portable code, but there are few similarities between Linux and AmigaOS in terms of structure and implementation of features.
IMO most OSes have their advantages and disadvantage. Personally I don’t see Linux offering advantages from a technology point of view for gaming and multimedia purposes. And commercial Linux games companies don’t do perform well within the Linux market.
> Amiga Inc provide only the brand name, a web site, and
> general encouragement.
The Hyperion and Amiga work closely together to make AmigaOS4 a reality. Not everything regarding the partnership is public knowledge.
Regarding the topic of AmigaOS ownership this has been explained by Amiga’s CTO at AmigaWorld in within his latest Q&A session:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/fleecymoss/index.php?cat_id=8
“I once was a huge amiga fan! I would really love to see this platform back in the shops. ”
IMO you will see an Amiga complete with updated OS back in the shops some time late this year. The “shops” will probably be mainly mail order as it is such a niche market.
It promises to be a nice computer, although being made in small numbers it will be expensive. Perhaps not suitable as your only computer, but great if you want a nice slim easy-to-use OS as a rest from being used by Windows.
> Perhaps not suitable as your only computer
Alot of software will need to be ported for the platform to be suitable for general consumers.
Thus these AmigaOne-XE are intended to be mass market products, but is targeted mainly at AmigaOS users and developers instead.
I combination with Linux and Mac-On-Linux the platform could be suitable for geeks as a complete desktop replacement.
Linux on AmigaOne G4/XE: http://www.amigaone.at
AOne Linux @ SourceForge: http://amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net/
Mac-on-Linux: http://maconlinux.net/
A micro ATX version of the XE board will be targeted at server farms:
http://onlyamiga.kicks-ass.net/xgi-bin/slideshow.xgi?dir=amigbg2003…
A new SE-lite board is intended to become the first mass market general consumer targeted cheap AmigaOne motherboard for homecomputing, STB, Kiosk systems, etc usage:
http://onlyamiga.kicks-ass.net/xgi-bin/slideshow.xgi?dir=amigbg2003…
Look at the endless delay of AmigaOS4 release, look at the over-priced hardware compared to cheap PCs, look at the lack of applications (most will probably be ports of GNU-Unix apps, so one can just use Linux for them), you will see this thing is appetible only to die-hard Amiga fans, but they are way too few to make this system a commercial success… I think they will follow Be’s fate in a few years.
> look at the lack of applications
AmigaOS already has well over 40,000 software titles and hopefully some of the best gems amongst this huge library of software will get ported to PPC natively for AmigaOS4. There’s also an integrated 68k emulator for some degree of classic AmigaOS compatibility though.
> you will see this thing is appetible only to die-hard
> Amiga fans, but they are way too few to make this system
> a commercial success…
Partially agreed, the market for the AmigaOne-XE is estimated to be the size of around 10,000 users, so far too few to cover all the development costs. However this market isn’t the end goal for Amiga companies. They see different markets where they believe and hope to become very successful, with us ordinary dekstop users to benefit from this as well.
The Amiga community is crucial for these plans to become successful. Applications will have to be ported (developers) and tested (users) in the meantime. But IMO a small efficient pre-emptive multi-tasking OS like AmigaOS, can have many potential uses.
…[/i]most will probably be ports of GNU-Unix apps, so one can just use Linux for them[/i]
Don’t think so, mate.
After all, if that were the case, one could just use Linux. And there aren’t any useful GNU apps in any case.
why can’t anyone consider a new amiga500?
fast+reliable+usefull+fun that what amiga500 was, and thats why we remember it with good memories..
i mean, somethin like architecture of Sony’s PS2 with amiga OS.. dunno..
> why can’t anyone consider a new amiga500?
That’s exactly one of the future markets where Amiga and its partners see a potential future. A homecomputer, similar to the A500 and A1200. The SE-lite motherboard with a graphic card to be fitted horizontally would potentially be used for such a machine in the future.
First the fundatmental platform needs to be modernized and matured. Luckily the Amiga community can help kickstart the platform forward. They already have kept supporting their platform through thick and thin.
News that make headlines …. 8 on the scale of Richter
“> why can’t anyone consider a new amiga500?
That’s exactly one of the future markets where Amiga and its partners see a potential future. A homecomputer, similar to the A500 and A1200. The SE-lite motherboard with a graphic card to be fitted horizontally would potentially be used for such a machine in the future.”
Eyetech definitely hope to make a low cost version.
The problem with an A1200/A500 form factor is the colossal cost of tooling the custom plastic mouldings for the case. It would almost certainly have to be in a small conventional case with separated keyboard.
Can anyone tell me what is the advantage of using a custom (proprietory) hardware with this new Amiga? Surely if the next gen AmigaOS would run on the intel x86 platform there would be many, many more people who would give it a try.
As someone already pointed out, Be Inc already found out a few years ago that custom hardware solutions are not really the way to go.
The original Amiga was well known for its cool custom chips, but in these days of 2ghz CPUs one can do just about everything they need in software.
“Can anyone tell me what is the advantage of using a custom (proprietory) hardware with this new Amiga? Surely if the next gen AmigaOS would run on the intel x86 platform there would be many, many more people who would give it a try.”
At present there is little or no advantage to the customer, except that the OS is guaranteed to work on the supplied hardware. The main reason for using PPC is that the people who are porting the OS have a very strong preference for coding PPC rather than x86. Bear in mind that they have to do a lot of low level coding.
So you either get AmigaOS 4 on PPC or not at all.
Conceivably the IBM 970 series of CPUs may be quite attractive in a year or two. In the mean time, you can expect an OS that will be very responsive, but slow at heavy calculation (ray tracing etc).
The desktop market isn’t really the main focus for Amiga companies in the long run (server farms, homecomputers, STBs, PDAs, Cellphones, etc). Again I would recommend to watch Alan’s presentation.
Using PPC technology now until the market goes 64-bit offers advantages, also there are about 10,000 Classic Amigas equiped with PPC accelerators already and this allows them to support these as well and secondly PPC technology can generally be smaller, more silent and less power hungry solutions (considerable benefits regarding these earlier mentioned markets).
However in the long run Amiga’s main goal is to make the underlying technology invisible to the user. The user should not have to worry about the underlying processor or OS of devices. That’s why Amiga is the Amiga Digital Environment, a platform independent technology which will also be integrated into AmigaOS:
A demonstration:
http://www.aminet.net/pix/mpg/BillTechTV.mpg
>By Kevin Rasmussen (IP: 210.3.155.—) – Posted on 2003-05-02 >09:23:18
>If yes, it could be a good idea. The Amiga had some >exceptional games. Whereas Linux is still lacking a gaming >API.
What about SDL?
“Whereas Linux is still lacking a gaming API.”
ehh what’s wrong with SDL?
ps. this is not a weak trolling attempt or another Linux zealot outburst, i’m just curious
“Can anyone tell me what is the advantage of using a custom (proprietory) hardware with this new Amiga? Surely if the next gen AmigaOS would run on the intel x86 platform there would be many, many more people who would give it a try.”
Yes, they would. Early on. People will say “oh, that looks nice, but I have Windows/Linux right here” like they did with BeOS and go back to Windows/Linux because they feel more comfortable with that, reducing AmigaOS on x86 to a curiosity like many hobby OS’es, where on its own platform, it can have a chance of thriving out of harms way from Windows. Linux runs as well on x86 as it does on PPC and most people might choose x86 for Linux anyway reducing the battlefield to MacOSX and AmigaOS.
Being a commercial OS, AmigaOS would die quickly on x86. AROS is a good alternative if you want AmigaOS like functionality on x86.
What I find truly interesting with this alternative PPC platform is that it can run AmigaOS and MacOnLinux which means MacOSX, and if enough boards are sold, the prices might drop a little.
If the Amiga is going to be a huge success again it needs popular games written for it like Counter-Strike, Quake3 and Warcraft3 for example. Anyway…that is what I think is needed for the Amiga to survive and be a success again.
Well I poked around and found the Italian supplier. They sell the 800Mhz AmigaOne board (basically a modified Mini ITX board with the PPC cpu module) for $1007. I’ve found others, and the general range is $900-$1000 for just the motherboard and the PPC CPU.
Most of these people sell it with YellowDog (or some other) Linux bundled. ‘Get AmigaOS when its out’ type of deal.
This all tells me a few things:
1. The consumer is paying $800 over what he would pay for an 800Mhz Celeron and mini-atx board.
2. Production runs are extremely limited. This is typically pricing one sees on limited-production hardware fabrication. So either someone doesn’t have a lot of faith in their own market, or they are cashstrapped and looking to recoup losses as the first 1 or 2 production runs sell (if they don’t sell, we all know what happens). Either way looks bad. For every manufacturer I have worked with in the past that has had this type of situation — it’s been the first sign of the one foot in the grave, the other on a banana-peel scenario. The pricing in this case and lack of immediate OS availability to deliver with the board doesn’t exactly help.
3. The board development turnaround time is slow (mini-atx is being phased out for mini-itx in the market segment this board is going into, and the mini-atx boards used all have only usb1.1).
4. Are they working on the next-gen board releases (faster CPU, USB2, etc.) right now, or are they still pushing their golden child? Consumers who jump on board with their $800 and make such an adoption expect to have some sort of evolvement of their hardware, otherwise it is just a dead end. And the ones who adopt it without this foresight are always the ones who will give the strongest negative feedback if such a situation were to occur.
5. Even suppliers don’t trust completely in AmigaOS’ availability, time-to-market, or survival (Linux can still be a fall-back plan). At least it avoids potential lawsuits from customers who pay a lot of money and never get an OS. If this policy was initiated by the hardware manufacturer then things look really gloomy.
6. I would be curious to know about the various party’s VC or investment injections and profit margins over the last 3 years.
I know the Amiga zealots will jump on this 2c comment and start flaming away (or brand me as one of those people trying to destroy AmigaOS’ credibility (which I find really amusing)), but try to be unbiased before you do. I’m just being realistic (and at the end of the day realism drives the OS and hardware survival, not pie-in-the-sky maybe, couldbe, and wannabe goals).
Yeah, you try to destroy the amiga
My first computer was an Amiga 500 and because of people like you I have to keep it in a box somewhere…
Just joking
my 2 cents
[Running on PPC]
> People will say “oh, that looks nice, but I have Windows/Linux right here” like they did with BeOS and go back to Windows/Linux because they feel more comfortable with that, reducing AmigaOS on x86 to a curiosity like many hobby OS’es, where on its own platform, it can have a chance of thriving out of harms way from Windows.
Why do people still come out with this bizarre argument? Being on an PPC platform puts up yet another barrier to potential AmigaOS users. Putting it on PPC makes it even more obscure!
can be stated, in no uncertain terms, with the following:
P S Y G N O S I S !!!
Shadow of The Beast: Revenge of The Beast
Blood Money II: Mo’ Money!
Barbarian: Swordplay
Awesome sequels from the one game company that made the Amiga as famous as it was!
Well, we can dream, can’t we?
Luposian
@ Kon
I shall point out some mistakes of your analysis.
1) Fist of all a top model Amiga One G4-XE Motherboard costs around $850 in the US (i.e. CompAmiga) in combination with *AmigaOS4*, LinuxPPC and a 800 MHz G4. An 800 Mhz Amiga One G3-XE Motherboard would be cheaper.
2) A G4 is generally alot faster than a 800 Mhz Celeron.
3) I believe you haven’t read all the previous comments as you act as if these AmigaOne-XE boards are targeted at general consumers.
“The pricing in this case and lack of immediate OS availability to deliver with the board doesn’t exactly help.”
The price you quote seems higher than usual.
IMO there is not much point in buying one of these until the Amiga OS is ready for it, unless you have a desire to run Linux on a PPC. In fact, most people would be better off waiting for OS4.1 or 4.2. There are bound to be snags and gotchas in a point zero release.
As for the companies, I know that Eyetech is a small company that is solidly run and has been trading for twenty years. They have a good technical background.
Marc – your Amiga 500 died long before any of that. Commodore killed itself, remember? And then the lack of any direction and passing the IP between companies with no clue killed the rest of the user base. I had one too (and a 1000). I think every ex-Amiga user views this stuff as a sceptic. Too many idle promises in the past.
Mike – 1. What is your point? $50 difference? Still 10x the price of an Intel platform on the same mobo (and the os (linux) is free). You are paying hand over foot for that bundled copy of AmigaOS. Its not free. 2. Maybe, but at 10x the price? I think not. 3. They need to be targeted at general consumers to succeed in terms of payback for hardware development (unless this is a non-profit organization). Oh wait, unless the thought process is that only Amiga pundits could be suckered into such an expensive piece of hardware? Its about $500 over what I would think twice about paying for.
Just out of curiosity. Are they going to include at least a ‘C’ compiler with the new OS? Linux has GCC. Mac OSX has at least GCC but metrowerks is an option. Or will new buyers of the Amiga expected to shell out for something. SAS-C?
I saw someone else mention AROS. Has anyone else checked it out? It’s basically to the Amiga what Linux is to Unix. Very cool stuff:
http://www.aros.org
SAS-C was discontinued a few years ago. They even sold the last remaining items in stock.
GCC 2.95 has worked on Amiga for a while and there is an alpha test version of 3.2 I think.
SDL is too new and still evolving. I guess right now it´s the only choice, but I would prefer to see a more mature gaming API being ported to Linux.
DirectX is one of the reasons why Macs have become a niche market product. I would hate to see Linux going the same way…
“Why do people still come out with this bizarre argument? Being on an PPC platform puts up yet another barrier to potential AmigaOS users. Putting it on PPC makes it even more obscure!”
Having AmigaOS on x86 will get it nowhere, even though the hardware base is large. Look where all non-MS commercial OS’es for x86 are today. They are simply not there. The x86 market is saturated and will ignore new OS’es.
Therefore the technical reason for porting it to x86 would be sound, but it would be a financial failure.
It is not about being stubborn and holding on to the outdated classic Amiga systems with custom chips, but to create a new platform on which AmigaOS would thrive and be fairly competitive with another PPC platform, namely Mac. Or to be its friendly cousin. It’s about being its own and not try to be a Windows wannabe.
You won’t see AmigaOnes in the office running heavy office applications or in the newbie user’s living room, who only knows about PC’s from the downtown computerstore. You won’t see AmigaOnes in education just yet (you might).
You will see them, however in the rooms of the hardware curious people, who want to see what else but x86 there is.
You might also see coming AmigaOne-like platforms in server areas which benefit from low-power consumption systems or specialized applications such as video-surveillance or kiosk-systems.
You will definitely also see some current Amiga users switching to AmigaOne. It has to be a fun and different platform to use and to develop for, before it works. You have to show people stuff, they haven’t seen before.
A niche market isn’t too overcrowded and would be an appropriate place for Amiga Inc. to set up a controlled niche platform which can quietly grow over time and most important of all, have a stable user base. Amiga Inc. have already made it clear that it would be foolish to go head-on with Windows.
If you really want to try a real AmigaOS on x86, there is always WinUAE or Amithlon although the first doesn’t show the full potential of the OS and the second is no longer under development.
“Just out of curiosity. Are they going to include at least a ‘C’ compiler with the new OS? Linux has GCC. Mac OSX has at least GCC but metrowerks is an option. Or will new buyers of the Amiga expected to shell out for something. SAS-C?”
Olaf Barthel is working on an OS4 version of GCC, at first only as a console based compiler, but later there may probably be complete IDE’s based around GCC. A real developer kit from Amiga Inc. will probably also be released for download. Free or not, I don’t know.
Henrik said:
> Linux runs as well on x86 as it does on PPC and most people
> might choose x86 for Linux anyway reducing the battlefield to
> MacOSX and AmigaOS.
I think, that’s the main point!. If they can finally get out a product like say boards and into the public, there’ll be a real chance of competition with the market. There’s a core of mac users as loyal as our amiga users and they take up nearly 2 percent of the market, so when they see there’s a competitor like the Amiga switching them shouldn’t be hard. I believe OS4 will be the crowning glory that can save PPCs
Really, there is nothing to gain in releasing AmigaOS for the Wintel. There is too much hardware out there. Don’t you read OSNews? In every report about Linux thisandthat or BeOS version Y.Z or hobby OS N or GUI kit ABC, there is someone complaining that it won’t work on his TaiwanPro Superthlon motherboard with GH98 sound and a Terminator Plus graphics board. Even if made for the PC, a new OS wouldn’t support more than a small subset of the available hardware, and would thus be ignored by a large portion of this potentially enormous, assumed market. And the OS supplier would be made dependent on certain manufacturers who really couldn’t care less about whether this fringe OS or that open-source OS runs on their hardware.
Besides, the Amiga is a platform of its own, just like the Mac or even the PC. Why should it become a PC all of a sudden? If you want an Amiga, you get an Amiga. If you don’t, then you obviously aren’t interested.