In this article, Mac user Paul Bissex decides to put an old computer to good use after his Powerbook crashed, and installs FreeBSD and KDE. He discovers that there’s a lot to like about KDE, particularly network transparency in Konqueror and other applications, virtual desktops, the Quanta Plus web development tool and the KDE PIM suite. He also identifies some drawbacks to his KDE desktop, and compares it to Mac OS X.
A Mac OS X User Reviews KDE
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I thought he would bash the crap out of KDE and a Mac user. But I was shocked. This is the first review where I have seen a Mac user praise KDE/Open source projects publicly. I’m still in shock.
*I thought he would bash the crap out of KDE as a Mac user.*
I thought for a second you were advocating violence against Mac users. : )
I like the way how he is approaching this compare of the two diffrend desktops. Very nice review.
I don’t know Mac OS X and can not comment his conclusion on Mac OS X. But his conclusion on KDE is hitting very well the point. We (I am using Linux as well) are so used in using “half backed” application, that we do not realize that. An fresh review of some one who is not used to that, brings old problems to the surface and allows us to maybe refocus on that problem.
cheers
SteveB
Don’t be shocked. Mac users are noted for their pragmatism and practicality — that’s why they generally prefer Macs for most tasks.
The article was balanced and fair in every respect and I learned a lot from it. But note that not every user’s needs will be so well matched by KDE, in its current incarnation.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
There are merits in OS X, *nix (KDE/GNOME), *BSD… and even Windows.
Made me nostalgic of my FreeBSD box (now running OS X). Among other things, I remember one little feature in KDE that I have always longed for: the automatic contextual menu you had when doing a drag’n drop, asking if you wanted to copy, move or create a link. Sometimes I move something, thinking I have just copied it. One time I lost a folder and all its contents because I thought I had made a copy when I had just created a link!. Does it have that feature yet?
This shows that KDE has really matured as a Desktop.
Good article, good points. I especially agree with his comment about lack of finished software making its way into distributions. Distros bost having 1,000’s of applications ready to install out of the box, but how many of them are really any good? I’d settle for a top 50 compilation of the most useful, polished, stable applications. Think iApps.
And it was also interesting that he basically dismissed the fact that he couldn’t print to his printer or get his sound card working. “It wasn’t important enough for me to find out, but it did keep me from, say, setting up a box like this for my mom.” That’s cool, and I understand that sentiment. There are “common” things I over look in Linux simply because they aren’t imporant enough *for me* to figure out. But – before Linux is going to make a serious dent in the Desktop market, these “common” things have to be worked out. For me personally, a computer without sound is no better than a door stop. To my mom, a computer without printing capabilities is no better than a door stop. etc… (digital cameras, webcams, scanners, game controllers, 802.11g WiFi, and so on…)
Like I said though – great article.
I mainly use Gnome, but I imagine much of this is true for KDE.
I use evolution, epiphany, xchat, abiword, pan, gnumeric, gaim, and gtk-gnutella. The only half baked app in that list is gtk-gnutella, since I can’t find a decent gtk2 based filesharing client.
I used to use KDE, right around the time 3.1 came out, and I noticed that kmail, konqueror, etc. were all quality apps. At the time, kit was the instant messenger, and it felt half baked, but kopete is really nice. Also, ksirc has a half-baked feel.
By and large, though, Linux has gotten WAY better in the past few years. MANY projects have matured.
So Finder doesn’t even really work with FTP servers… Now that’s a bummer. IE can do it, Nautilus can do it, Konqueror can do it. And this is the first time I even heard about it.
Just another reason why I’d never even consider buying a Mac without some kind of evaluation version.
Yeah Finder is pretty bad for that.
I agree. Evolution for example is a quality app matched by nothing on OSX. How about media players? Any xine based frontend is a millenia ahead of any proprietary offering on OS X or Windows. I can say the same for many KDE apps.
Most well known projects are highly polished and of high quality offering. He didn’t mention any projects that were half baked and didn’t demonstrate how KDE was unpolished. I really don’t see why those statements were warranted.
I think the review further proofs the KDE is as good as OS X if not better in some respects. 🙂 I’m mean, come on, Network transperency is so last century in Open Source. 😉
@Spark:
IE works with most FTP sites, most of the times. I’ve had several that it stupidly barfs on while other FTP clients have no problem. That and the fact that connecting to an FTP server through IE has always taken glacial eons longer than using a normal FTP client it fees like :p
I mean Gnome is much more mac like now than it ever use to be, and it is becoming more mac like as time goes on.
I agree. Evolution for example is a quality app matched by nothing on OSX. How about media players? Any xine based frontend is a millenia ahead of any proprietary offering on OS X or Windows. I can say the same for many KDE apps.
Huh? Entourage pretty much matches and even surpasses Evolution.. Bash Microsoft all you want, but I like most of the software their Mac Business Unit creates. Even so, if for some crazy reason you actually like Evolution, you can just run it on OS X. Pretty much every open source application that runs on FreeBSD and Linux, will run on OSX.
GNOME is not Mac-like and will never be like Mac. When did Mac have virtual desktops?
are you that blinded by your Zeal that you cannot see the similarities?
apparently.
besides I said gnome is mac like, not mac is gnome like.
one feature does not make them unlike. and if you look at what they are doing for 2.6 you will see even more mac similarities.
I think it is a much better idea to take the best ideas from the mac UI and implement them in Gnome, it makes Gnome that much better and streamlined.
i liked the observation that free software doesn’t constantly try to sell you on stuff. i use freebsd, linux, and win xp. (for “win xp” i use a dell with its bundled suite of software.) i was noticing the same thing he did, that while i can do a bit with the bundled software i often hit the built-in limit. they want me to download the better version (after i give them my credit card number and a few bucks). we hit limits in free software, not where they want money, just where they aren’t done yet … where they need a little more time.
i think it is going to get very interesting when the “free stuff” exceeds the “bundled stuff” on windows and mac.
I agree. The Finder (OS X) is a piece of crap. It needs to be rethinked and refactored(sp?). At least it’s more stable than Windows Explorer (interface is very good, but it’s a little unstable), Nautilus (unstable) and Konqueror (interface is complicated and a little unstable).
Huh? Entourage pretty much matches and even surpasses Evolution.. Bash Microsoft all you want, but I like most of the software their Mac Business Unit creates. Even so, if for some crazy reason you actually like Evolution, you can just run it on OS X. Pretty much every open source application that runs on FreeBSD and Linux, will run on OSX.
Last time I used entuorage, it didn’t support filters, spamassasin and encryption. Has that changed now? If so, it’s about time. If not, nothing matches Evolution.
When would I want to use Evolution of OSX when I can use it without it? Even though Evolution works on OSX, you can’t tell me it is better integrated on OSX than on GNOME.
Yes, I can run Open source software on OSX, but what’s the point?
are you that blinded by your Zeal that you cannot see the similarities?
apparently.
besides I said gnome is mac like, not mac is gnome like.
one feature does not make them unlike. and if you look at what they are doing for 2.6 you will see even more mac similarities.
I think it is a much better idea to take the best ideas from the mac UI and implement them in Gnome, it makes Gnome that much better and streamlined.
Repeat after me, GNOME is not Mac-like and those not try to be Mac. And what are they doing is 2.6 that makes GNOME Mac-like?
As a switcher from a Linux laptop to a new Powerbook, I miss brwosing the network w/ Konqueror. Panther has real problems browsing my Samba network. I’ve read of quite a few other people w/ this problem.
Other than that, now that I’ve got OpenOffice running the way I like, OS X is keeping me pretty happy w/ its speed and polish. Having a few problems getting Fink running right, though
dude, READ what the gnome developers are doing, they them selves say that they are looking at what OS X does.
have you ever used OS X? if you had, when you use Gnome, you would see little macisms peppered around.
right now on the Naut-dev mailing list they are discussing how to implement a column-view mode, right now, Removable media mounts and a new icon pops up on the desktop, they are working on making Evolution part of the desktop splitting up the calendar, e-mail and address book so that all applications made for the system can use those as a service, speaking of services, Gnome developers are working on making GUI services, just like Mac OS X, the first of which would be Evolution’s split up and integration, next, hopefully a system wide spell checker that can be used by all Gnome apps.
really? I prefer the OS X way of browsing samba. I have had no problems with it.
” So Finder doesn’t even really work with FTP servers… Now that’s a bummer.”
@Spark
The Finder does support FTP. Use the Go menu in the Finder, then select “Connect to Server” type in the ftp site in the dialog box in the format ftp://whateverftpsite.com
“I’m mean, come on, Network transperency is so last century in Open Source. 😉”
Not just Open Source … for Windows too.
Finder on Windows networks just doesn’t work properly (OS 10.3.1). I just wish they would fix it!
“I’m mean, come on, Network transperency is so last century in Open Source. ;-)”
Not just Open Source … for Windows too.
Not true, you cant open “http://osnews.com/comment.php“ in notepad for example, but you can in any KDE app.
dude, READ what the gnome developers are doing, they them selves say that they are looking at what OS X does.
have you ever used OS X? if you had, when you use Gnome, you would see little macisms peppered around.
right now on the Naut-dev mailing list they are discussing how to implement a column-view mode, right now, Removable media mounts and a new icon pops up on the desktop, they are working on making Evolution part of the desktop splitting up the calendar, e-mail and address book so that all applications made for the system can use those as a service, speaking of services, Gnome developers are working on making GUI services, just like Mac OS X, the first of which would be Evolution’s split up and integration, next, hopefully a system wide spell checker that can be used by all Gnome apps.
Dude, I follow GNOME development very closely and all the things you mentioned hardly applies to Mac and or works like Mac. And I think it’s insulting for you to say GNOME Developers don’t have a brain of their own than to follow what Mac does. I’m on the several of the gnome-dev mailing list and I hardly ever come across anything discussed about Mac.
Nautilus doesn’t look, work or feel like finder. Neither does evolution look, work or feel like mail. GNOME icons have always been different from Mac ones, you can get Mac icons on GNOME if you like. The version of GNOME I’m using has removable media mounts. Unix has always had that, it was never a Mac thing.
All in all, apart from the top and bottom panels in both GNOME and Mac (which doesn’t work like Mac), I don’t see anything remotely working like Mac. Oh, and I have an iMac right beside me. Once again, GNOME doesn’t work like Mac and doesn’t apsire to be Mac or Windows. That’s like me saying OSX is just a FreeBSD distro, or trying to be one.
Anonymous (IP: 66.71.219.—) – Posted on 2003-12-03 00:07:01
“How about media players? Any xine based frontend is a millenia ahead of any proprietary offering on OS X or Windows.”
I’ve never used xine, but I can report that Quicktime (the free version) is an outstanding media player.
“He didn’t mention any projects that were half baked and didn’t demonstrate how KDE was unpolished. I really don’t see why those statements were warranted.”
The article specifically discussed problems with KOffice.
“I think the review further proofs the KDE is as good as OS X if not better in some respects.”
I think the review said that KDE was better in some respects, as good as in others and worse in others, all in relation to the reviewers stated goals for use of the OS.
It is interesting that Mac people have a balanced view and that KDE fans make claims that even the KDE developers would not make. Yes, KDE has come a long way and it will undoubtedly be a worthy competitor to OS X in the near future. And yes, Apple will work to improve OS X in part to deal with the competition. And yes, those Gnome people are still out there working on their gnomish agenda. And yes, it does seem that Microsoft will be waiting another 2 years or so before it responds to KDE, Gnome or OS X on the desktop.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
And it was also interesting that he basically dismissed the fact that he couldn’t print to his printer or get his sound card working. […] There are “common” things I over look in Linux simply because they aren’t imporant enough *for me* to figure out. But – before Linux is going to make a serious dent in the Desktop market, these “common” things have to be worked out.
Uh…you do realize that he’s using FreeBSD to test KDE, not Linux, right? This article isn’t about Linux at all – one of the reasons why it’s so interesting is that he makes a total abstraction of the underlying Unix (or unix-like) layer, only to focuse on the Destkop Environment.
Modern Linux distros will setup your printer and soundcard automatically in the great majority of cases. Personally, I don’t think that this has much to do with its acceptance as a desktop. Linux could have 100% hardware compatibility and automated setup, and still not gain mainstream acceptance. What is missing is a) marketing, b) more large companies switching to Linux and c) a killer app like Sun’s Looking Glass desktop. Otherwise, it will continue gaining acceptance at a slower (but relentless) pace.
When I first go to “Network”, attempting to browse the network gives me 2 messages:
-“Network does not exist”
-something about the list of servers is not available
Waiting about 10 minutes seems to work some of the time. I’m running Panther fully updated.
Anonymous wrote:
“Dude, I follow GNOME development very closely and all the things you mentioned hardly applies to Mac and or works like Mac. And I think it’s insulting for you to say GNOME Developers don’t have a brain of their own than to follow what Mac does. I’m on the several of the gnome-dev mailing list and I hardly ever come across anything discussed about Mac.”
Dude, you’re being obtuse. From the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines:
“The recommendations here build on design aspects that have worked well in other systems, including Mac OS, Windows, Java and KDE. At the same time they retain a uniquely GNOME flavor.”
Note that Mac OS is listed first.
Regards,
Mark Wilson
Note that Mac OS is listed first.
Does it make a difference if it was listed last? Does it mention an order in the magnitude it is listed? Does it mention which versions of Mac OS is it following? Does it is say it is trying to be like Mac OS?
So let’s follow your logic. Because Mac OS is mentioned in the GNOME Human User Interface guide, GNOME is trying to be like Mac.
you are being very obtuse. apparently you seem to think the mac is an inferior platform and take personal offense when Gnome is compared to Mac OS.
get over it. Gnome is more Mac like than it is windows like face the facts.
I never said they have no brain, they are using good ideas, and YES they are mac like because Mac does them and windows does not.
Emmm…windows has most of the features you mentioned if not all.
GNOME is definately getting more Mac (classic) -like. Very minimalist, very strict adherence to the HIG, minimal number of icons, spatial file management, etc. Its not a criticism of any side, just a testament to the amount of good HIG work Apple has done.
@ThanatosNL: KDE has a lot of high-quality apps. For example: KDevelop, KMail, Kopete, Quanta+, KWord, KSpread, juK, KMplayer, k3b, and of course, Konqueror. However, outside of those, there are a lot of very unpolished apps. In general, GNOME apps tend to be more polished than KDE apps.
This review is really right on. I use MacOS X regularly on our lab machines, and use KDE as my only desktop. I definately appreciate some of the advanced features of KDE (KIO!) compared to OS X, but also definately notice that its not nearly as polished as OS X. Its really just a matter of time as KDE becomes more polished. A lot of effort until now has been spent getting the underlying technology built. 3.2 is a great leap forward in terms of UI polish, and future versions are sure to follow the pattern. KDE is probably never going to be the super-minimal desktop GNOME is. That’s okay — that’s why we have two desktops
you are being very obtuse. apparently you seem to think the mac is an inferior platform and take personal offense when Gnome is compared to Mac OS.
get over it. Gnome is more Mac like than it is windows like face the facts.
I’d be less obtuse if you can hint me as how that is so. Provide me with facts, and may be I’ll shut up. But until then GNOME isn’t Mac like. Tell, specifically, what is Mac like about GNOME. Because I don’t see what you are seeing.
Is there anyway to get Nautilus to draw desktop icons on the right side of the screen, with out manually repositioning them yourself?
Just wondering…
I did and you just fluffed them off as an attack on the Developers.
I would also like to point out that all of the people that have interjected into our conversation have supported me.
Methinks thou doth protest etc etc so on and so forth.
You seem to be taking it as an insult that people are comparing Gnome 2.x to the Mac OS. In my opinion, that’s a compliment – and certainly a step forward, compared to the bloody mess that was Gnome 1.x. The visual style is what really makes it look Mac-like to me: clean and simple, instead of flashy and garish. UI elements like scrollbars and buttons look recessed into the windows, rather than the ugly floating-over effect that infests most Amiga screenshots. UI elements are rounded and appear to have depth, but aren’t hideously overly 3d-esque (*cough*Win9x*cough*).
Nautilus’ selection highlight looks similar to Panther’s. Then there is Nautilus being made spatial by default. Gnome apps tend to use the Mac-like rotating triangular widget for expanding/collapsing list views, rather than the Windows-like +/- widget.
And those are just a few quick observations from looking at screenshots, I”m sure people with more experience using both OSes could come up with more similarities. It’s not a bad thing – quite the contrary, it’s great to see a major OSS desktop project working with what appears to be a “less-is-more, good defaults are better than a billion confusing options” philosophy. If nothing else, it means that I may not have to sell my superfluous organs to buy a G5 if/when can no longer use BeOS.
I can’t connect to it for what ever reason…what is there?
I can agree that many gnome and kde applications are “half-baked”. Both desktops (and their applications) are probably following a development cycle that will see more polished applications as time goes by.
Many of the applications that are listed as polished in the discussion only seem polished when compared to contemporaries on the same platform. When compared to some of the OSX apps from apple, or from commercial windows software some software is seriously lacking.
That said. often the Tools we are using on linux, are more powerful and flexible than anything else out there. I’m guessing from all the praise that Konqueror and Klipper are examples of those. Those applications (or similar ones) are the reason that I use Gnome. I can live with all the applications where the functionality is less than perfect. No matter what platform you choose there will probably be trade-offs in which applications you use.
what kde/gnome/etc miss vs osx (and sometimes windows) is just called polish. osx is very much polished to me. I’m a windows/gnome user and i miss that from osx, honestly.
“” rel=”nofollow”>http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/pop.htm”
Hahaha…good one. It reminds me the “Logic and Inquiry” class I took in my freshman years.
I don’t find the comparison between Mac OSX and GNOME insulting. It is just not true. And I’m not judging from screenshots or reviews. I use both OSX and GNOME. And I confidently assert they a different.
An OSX user will have a rough time adjusting to GNOME and a GNOME user will have a rougher time adjusting to OSX. If anything, GNOME’s behaviour and experience is more Windows-like than it is Mac-like.
Oh and sexy widgets and screenshots don’t count as justifiable comparisons. I also need to mention not all Mac apps adhere to Apple’s HIG. In fact, Apple is notorious for violating their own HIGs.
I use both as well, and I am telling you, they are similar.
everyone else here agrees with me. you can go off in your own world and think what ever you like, but you are wrong.
The reason GNOME apps tend to look more polished than the KDE ones is that GNOME seems to have slightly higher standards on the completedness of what they include in the formal distribution. That’s not to say the stuff is in absolute final state, but it seems to be further along in general.
IMHO, this is a good policy. Users who are interested in alpha and early beta software can get it themselves. But it’s somewhat unfair to newbies to slap them with barely working stuff.
To get back on topic: I thought this was an absolutely fantastic article, of much more relevance than the umpteenth million review of LibraNet. If we could get a similar “virgin user” to do this sort of review on GNOME, I’d be greatly appreciative.
One of the things I think is missing from the OSS world is proper planning. I’m not talking code duplication (“OMG, THREE BROWSER LIBS!”), but simple stuff like low-fidelity prototyping, user studies, defining the problem to be solved, what capabilities the program is envisioned to have at completion, that sort of thing. One of the GNOME devs was bitching about this, and he was entirely correct about it. More vision is needed!
-Erwos
But I think it’s closer to the old “Platinum” interface than OSX. All this is okay by me, because I still like the old interface. If only the underlying OS didn’t suck so bad.
http://users.757.org/~hurdboy/pics/gnometaskswitch.png
That’s a screenshot I took for my local unix users’ group when we were discussing this issue on the mailing list.
And another:
http://users.757.org/~hurdboy/pics/gnome2.png
FWIW, xfce4 is easier to get to function like OSX. When I’m using it, I can even set it up so that it works pretty much like my dock in OSX (left side, very small, auto-hides).
Now, if the Gnome developers could get the common menubar up top thing done, I’d be really happy (one of the few things KDE has going for it).
“You seem to be taking it as an insult that people are comparing Gnome 2.x to the Mac OS.”
Maybe he’s just annoyed because once again non-Mac users have to listen to preaching. Here we have a thread on KDE and right away Mac users want to remind us how great OS X is again. Any opportunity to proselytize for Mac will do, won’t it?
No, comparing Gnome to OS X is not a compliment. Saying that Gnome is a good project making big strides is a compliment.
“Mac users are noted for their pragmatism and practicality — that’s why they generally prefer Macs for most tasks.”
Give us a break, Mark.
what are you talking about. this whole thing got started with him responding to MY interest in the person who did this review, WHO WAS A MAC USER, to do one on Gnome since Gnome was mac-like in many aspects.
that is not really preaching now is it.
I would like to say let us all focus on the article and the review of KDE by a Mac OS X user.
If anything, I would like to see a review of Ximian Gnome by this author because it is more polished and tends to be better in handling printers and network browsing.
But… I was happy to see this sort of review because it felt like there were no agendas and the reviewer was very fair in their assessment.
I used linux on my work desktop for three years. I am now at work stuck with a win 2k laptop with no hopes for getting them to allow me to put linux on it.
I was amazed at the number of little things I missed about living on a *Nix box. Linux and its desktop environments have come a long way. This is a not a diss on Win boxes either. There are things I like about a win box better. In fact, I thought I would write a short article on it sometimes. The free desktops are coming of age but they still depend a great deal on the love and care of the distros in what they include and exclude and how well config tools are integrated.
I think we are missing the entire point of the article in this digression on Gnome when talking about a review of KDE. That is all.
nice review, but too mac biased. Why the author mentions several times he does it better with macosx ?
why on the end theres a need to say “i ran back to macosx”?
theres no need,
misunderstandings on the article
he states he likes kde way of copying remote files over remote locations and he misses that on macosx. Well theres ftp clients for macosx that implement fxp protocol., and darwin project is betatesting that for next releases.
secondly he doenst understand how freebsd (and kde) doesnt came bunble with support for simple (on his words) as java and flash
“Flash seems to be absent for similar reasons. These days, a web browser without a Flash plug-in installed by default is, to many users, a broken web browser”
well here the ones to blame are SUN and Macromedia, not freebsd project. Everyone knows that only recently freebsd got the license to release and work on a native jdk and everyones knows that macromedia only released flash 5 and 6 binaries for LINUX. But even so its possible to have both cutting-edge jdk 1.4.2 and flash 6 working in Freebsd with MozillaFirebird or anyother major released browser. Just need some turnarounds, some are simpler others dont. But theres always ppl to help
Does anyone else see a serious lack of interpretation skills in some of the comments here? People draw conclusions that the writer wasn’t trying to make or just blindly go off on tangents. Isn’t this taught in grade school, to try and figure out what the writer was saying?
@xispes: Speaking of misunderstandings, your doing it to what he wrote. He wasn’t talking just about FXP protocals, he was talking about the ability to drag from say a desktop, or another folder, and have it instantly be qued up in the program he was using. Last time I checked, your computer to your que to remote server isn’t FXP protocal, thats GUI related.
Also, getting Java and Flash to work in FreeBSD (and Linux) is still a pain. Yes, its much better than it was I’m sure but he’s comparing to whats on Mac OS X. FreeBSD doesn’t have the transparency there, he never dissed that, he didn’t dismiss that. He was pointing it out. Get off your high horse and read what he was saying.
@House of Mirrors: Instead of attacking people in the thread maybe it’d be better to address the actual ARTICLE. Linux/FreeBSD zeolots and Mac zeolots won’t be talked to, they won’t be reasoned to (so why am I doing this then, hmmm?) so its just not worth the effort.
secondly he doenst understand how freebsd (and kde) doesnt came bunble with support for simple (on his words) as java and flash
I believe he understands very well. To quote him:
Java’s license requires a more convoluted path — one I must admit I never followed.
Flash seems to be absent for similar reasons
And he doesn’t blame the FreeBSD Project. Again to quote him:
These issues are largely out of the hands of the KDE and FreeBSD developers
Why wouldn’t the author mention that he does it better with OS X. He is a Mac user! And where did you see he wrote “I ran back to macosx”. I have read “Now I’m back using OS X…”
@chris
@xispes: Speaking of misunderstandings, your doing it to what he wrote. He wasn’t talking just about FXP protocals, he was talking about the ability to drag from say a desktop…
“Finally, to mention just one feature I have been wanting for years in Mac FTP clients: you can drag a file from one remote directory to another.”
Also, getting Java and Flash to work in FreeBSD (and Linux) is still a pain.
it is, but he said he deals well with freebsd way of doing things, he understands the port system, he knows how to compile things, thats why i didnt got his prob in setuping java or flash in fbsd. As i said isnt for the average user but theres maillist, theres foruns, there ppl outthere ready to help.
(so why am I doing this then, hmmm?) so its just not worth the effort.
sure
@manik
“Home Again” and “Now I’m back using OS X” tell me what is the difference beteween these two sentences and “i ran back”?
The point here, he was reviewing kde/freebsd stating that he doenst use them any more, “My $60 computer is still running, now a headless server” and “home again” what preception gives to someone that is reading and willing to give it a try?
“well hesnt using it anymore, so why should i try !?”.
Its like visiting a country, make a review and them comment out with your friend “its good to be back, nothing like home..” does your friend have the same desire to go on and visit that country? i doubt.
We didnt call for “a switch story” here (we dont need them) , but he could kept out all those biased mac comments.
“ahhh but see you are wrong xispe, he is a MAC user!!!!”
then im right, the review is biassed after all!
Ive got zero problems in Panther browsing my network. Panther uses Samba3 and I assume it should work just like any other Samba3 network.
As for media players, I personally think OS X has it the best of all platforms. I have Quicktime 6.4, RealONE, Windows Media Player 9, and also the OSS MPlayer (plays all formats).
Arguing about email clients is really lame. OS X can run just about anything. There is Entourage, Outlook Express, and another from the MS Office X package. There is also Mozilla Mail and Thunderbird. Apples default client that I use has spam filtering, supports everything I need it for (like TLS IMAP), and seems to be as fully featured as email client gets/needs to be. I can also connect to exchange servers should I need/choose to do so. I could install Evolution if I wanted to, but I see no reason. I personally find it slower, less stable, and not nearly as nice looking. You also cant connect to exchange, if thats your thing, unless you have the Novell/Ximian connector that costs money.
If you don’t see a difference between “I ran back to macosx” and “Now I’m back using OS X”, then any further discussion on that subject between us would be a loss of time.
what about windows?
longhorn?
isn’t it way better and the future of computing and all that?
I agree. I have only recently joined the Mac world with my new 17″ 16×9 Powerbook <drool>
and I have quickly found OSX to just completely rule. For the record, Ive got 2 Linux servers (Gentoo and SuSE), 1 Linux desktop (Gentoo), and an XP gaming rig. OSX just outclasses them all hands down. One thing that I will say, coming from being a Linux/KDE/Gnome desktop user, is that when I use OSX, I feel like Im using *nix, but with the ulitmate GUI. I really hope that the Linux desktops will continue to improve in the direction of OSX…. because with Panther being as awesome as it is, I cant imagine using anything else on my desktop right now.
This thread is spiraling into an exchange of flames, but I agree with the “Gnome is Mac-like” to an extent. I’m a KDE user, but i recently spent a week playing in Gnome. Its adherence to a set og human interface guidelines is quite refreshing, and this is something that it has in common with Macintosh operating systems.
Seems to me that the article was written by a mac user who used the kde interface for a while and compare it to OS X. So why do some people waste time arguing about whether gnome borrowed from the mac?
And for those of you who find it insulting that he continues to use OS X instead of KDE, get over it! Should I as a mac user find it insulting that you use something else other than a mac?
If you don’t see a difference between “I ran back to macosx” and “Now I’m back using OS X”, then any further discussion on that subject between us would be a loss of time.
what we know, is that he doenst use kde anymore
go figure from what, he didnt ran to, but from what he ran awayfrom
but ok, you are right its a futile discussion
I would kill to get mPlayer running on my brand new 15.2″ Powerbook <drool>. How’d you go about it?
You don’t know what you are talking about. Gtk-gnutella is not half baked. It is way better then any other gnutella client I have ever seen. Period.
“what we know, is that he doenst use kde anymore
go figure from what, he didnt ran to, but from what he ran awayfrom”
His purpose for using KDE was to have a computer while he got his mac trouble sorted out. He was not intending to switch… he didn’t even intend to use it very long in the first place. I consider this a great compliment to KDE that he had a good time and KDE more then fulfilled it’s purpose here.
Most reviews of FreeBSD are not very good, but this one is actually very well done. The author was willing to get to know the OS pretty well. It is clear that the author read the documentation carefully, and as a result, the he had a good experience.
I also think its interesting that he tried kde; As a user of gtk applications, I personally find gnome to be mac-like. (though I only run wms, no desktop environments) When I say that I gtk/gnome is “mac-like,” I mean simplicity in design, hig, removal of options, finder like menu, large pretty icons, xml registry-like configuration, and less-is-more gui policy. (though the last point could also fall into a unix-like category)
As such, I found the review rather interesting. The author seems to like KDE for what it is, something good in different ways than OS X. I personally don’t use KDE, but I found this review to be very open-minded and well-informed. What I liked best about this review, however, was his distinction between operating system issues, windowing system issues, and desktop issues. He was careful not to blame specific components without understanding what he was doing first. Nice work there.
My only disagreement with the author is that he stated that “I decided to try KDE partly because it had a fresher version in ports than Gnome” which I find to be misinformed, since I can’t think of anything more current for Gnome. (I think Gentoo users would enjoy a similar luxury, as well) I’ve been running Gnome 2.4 from ports for ages, and its been a breeze. I think what he overlooked in this case was checking the web based ports page instead of just cvsup’ing, which is far more current in many cases.
Overall, an excellent review that gives *BSD good press that it deserves.
–Tim
I just downloaded the OSX binary from either sourceforge or versiontracker….in fact here is the link:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16623
Enjoy.
One area where KDE and Mac are light years ahead of other environments is in icon quality. Both environments have stunning icons (esp. the new Crystal ones from Everaldo). The Bluecurve theme from Red Hat is also very nice but is not the default theme of GNOME. It should be because the default GNOME icons are so dark and drab.
I hope Red Hat will lift its licensing restrictions on Bluecurve icons and let the whole world use them.
Windows’ icons are OK but they often do not scale very well which is more and more of a problem in a modern desktop environment.
I can run KDE in OS X, on X11 with a little help from Fink… it’s not too hard… and then you have the best of both worlds.