Home > Mac OS X > Apple offers developers new Tiger, Java software builds Apple offers developers new Tiger, Java software builds Eugenia Loli 2005-02-07 Mac OS X 24 Comments More recent builds of Apple’s Tiger operating system have recently surfaced along with a coinciding Java software seed. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 24 Comments 2005-02-07 10:27 pm According to another rumor site (http://story.ch/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2005/02/05#20050205_8a369report) the new 8a369 build is the “first usable build” and has “beta-quality”. 2005-02-07 10:29 pm I’m curious, I really don’t know much about what Apple is doing with Java but I do see more mention of Java being used on Macs than I when it comes to Windows and Linux. Is Java a common language for Mac apps? Does it run faster on Macs than in Windows and Linux? 2005-02-07 10:43 pm AFAIK Apple develops it’s own Java and then gets it certified by Sun. It also runs smoother and Swing apps integrate really nice with the rest of the Desktop. The only real way you can tell that a Swing app may be a Java one is by it’s slow loading time. Also, their JVM has some kind of “shared memory” thingy implemented. 2005-02-07 10:51 pm Before, I was decided against upgrading to Tiger because Panther is already a nice system to work with and, being a poor student, I can think of better things to spend my money on. Lately though, Dashboard, Spotlight and Automator seem really cool. I especially like Dashboard. I wonder though, with my iBook (933MHz G4, 640MB RAM, 32MB VRAM), would I reap the benefits of the new spiffy video stuff? Will Tiger be faster on my lappy? I could handle it performing the same but there’s no way I’d upgrade if it meant that my computer would run a bit slower. Does anybody know if Tiger will run nice on the lower end Macs? 2005-02-07 10:57 pm Java is very nicely integrated into OS X. Like dr_gonzo has said, Apple took the reference implementation of Sun’s Java and modified it for OS X. One of the modifications is Swing looks native and performs really well. Most of the complaints leveled against Swing(slow, ugly fonts, non-native look, memory hog, etc) on Windows and Linux don’t apply on OS X. Another thing Apple added was the ‘shared’ VM feature, where the JVM shares the common classes used by all applications. This benefits memory consumption as each Java program doesn’t need to have its own instance of the VM(big memory hog), and large classes like those found in Swing can be shared between applications and reduce memory consumption if you run many Java apps simultaneously. The downside is that you can’t just download the JVM from Sun. As such Mac users are currently stuck on Java 1.4.2, when 1.5 has been out for quite some time. I’ve been itching to try Java 1.5, but cant since it isn’t available on OS X until Tiger is released. It’s funny how the codename for Java 1.5 is also Tiger 🙂 2005-02-07 11:07 pm “Is Java a common language for Mac apps?” I’d say it is. Though in relation to native apps, I don’t know. I write nearly as much in C++ as I do in Java. 2005-02-07 11:59 pm Hi Does anybody know if it’s possible to have multiple versions of JDK installed at the same time on Panther? If yes, is then possible to switch from one to the other? I very often have several JDKs installed on my linux box at work (1.3.1, 1.4.2 and 1.5.0) and I just change my JAVA_HOME env var to point to one or the other. I’d like to be able to do the same thing with Panther. Thanks. 2005-02-08 12:25 am you can install more than one version of java on the mac (only use apple versions though) they are available from apples dev site 2005-02-08 2:23 am I do not agree with the above comments. In my experience, Java runs the fastest on Windows XP. The only difference between Java on Windows or Linux and OS X is that Java on OS X uses Apple’s native widget sets to render widgets as opposed to Swing. Does Java run better on OS X? Absolutely not! If anything, it runs worse based on my experience and at least when compared to Windows. Java 1.5 runs absolutely horridly on my Linux box. Many apps are broken with. I got tired and installed IBM’s 1.4 implementation of Java on Linux. Either way, Java runs a lot slower on Linux and OS X. It is clear that SUN expends most of its energies developing Java on the Windows platform. Of course other people’s experience may be different. If you are developing Java apps on OS X, do not be deluded into thinking it is the best, fastest, smoothest, whatever implementation of Java. The only plus you get is that your apps will look native, that’s it! 2005-02-08 2:36 am Java runs terrible on OS X. Sorry. I LOVE OS X but java is slow. JEdit hangs all the time (it comes back up but it will sit locked for a good 30 to 45 seconds at a time very often). Eclipse is better but still have similar problems. I look forward to an updated JVM for Tiger. If it solves the current java problems it’ll be worth the upgrade price to me for that alone. 2005-02-08 3:39 am “Another thing Apple added was the ‘shared’ VM feature, where the JVM shares the common classes used by all applications. This benefits memory consumption as each Java program doesn’t need to have its own instance of the VM(big memory hog), and large classes like those found in Swing can be shared between applications and reduce memory consumption if you run many Java apps simultaneously.” I believe you are referring to class data sharing, and the Sun JVM has it too – http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/vm/class-data-sharing.htm… 2005-02-08 4:31 am “I believe you are referring to class data sharing, and the Sun JVM has it too – http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/vm/class-data-sharing.htm….. ” Thanks! 2005-02-08 5:02 am Derek wrote: I believe you are referring to class data sharing, and the Sun JVM has it too – http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/vm/class-data-sharing.htm….. Imagine that! Apple has coordinated with SUN to introduce some redesigns for Java and SUN has implemented them. Your case reference is actually one example. 2005-02-08 5:48 am Yeah, it’s true . I have a 1Ghz PB and 512Megs of RAM and it’s still slow as hell . I mean of course GUI apps. jEdit does not hang here but lot slower than on Win or Linux. The worst is Posseidon UML. The previous version had an HTML view for editing wich documents and it was looong wait to get it rendered. Even now, with the new version I cannot really do meaningful work because of the performance issues. Thou I checked the page in/outs in Activity Monitor and it seems I need a bit more ram than 512. I was testing it by using the split window widget btw. Eclipse is bearable here but way too slow compared to Win and Linux versions. One solution for GUI performace is switching back to Metal LnF with Swing apps. It makes jEdit actually useable. Well, almost. Server performance is good, thou. So jBoss and other stuff are no prob at all. Work out of the box in console. I also have a lot of problems with Applets in Safari. SO I really hope that these issues will taken care of in Tiger… 2005-02-08 7:08 am Funny that hasn’t been my experience. I’ve never experienced JEdit hanging while I have had Netbeans hang on me once or twice, but I’ve always put that down to Netbeans being … well Netbeans 🙂 2005-02-08 7:09 am Java 1.5 has class data sharing, but it is based off Apple’s work. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-shared/?ca=dgr… 2005-02-08 7:11 am Im sorry, but I disagree. I find Java apps run far, far better on OSX than comparative windows or linux systems. I do however agree regarding Applets in Safari. (a vast majority crash Safari) Safari aside, Java runs smooth on OSX in my experience. 2005-02-08 9:03 am What kind of Mac do you have? How much mem? I’m not telling that it wouldn’t run faster even with 768megs as my tests show that lots of page ins/outs happen even when I’m reorganizing split windows. Since the 4200 hdd is slower that the most, with pageing too, I’m pretty sure that I have to upgrade to 768. I find Limewire nice, thou )). 2005-02-08 10:24 am you can also use java instead of objective-c for cocoa programming 2005-02-08 11:15 am Java 1.4.2 on WinXP is slow in comparison with FreeBSD 5.3. Especially if i run some large apps like NetBeans or Eclipse… I cat’t agree that java default look is terrible. One reason, why i write the code in java apps(JEdit, NetBeans) is the decent look and good ‘sharp’ fonts;) 2005-02-08 12:52 pm I’m running Java on a Powerbook 12″ with a 1.33 GHz G4 processor, 1.25 GB RAM and a 7200 RPM hard drive… so I guess my machine isn’t the typical run of the mill Powerbook. 2005-02-08 4:28 pm I’m working in JBuilder 2005 Developer. Probably, the main reason I run JBuilder is it runs so well on OS X. For, Java, Windows or OSX the sweet spot for memory is 768meg. You get the most bang for your buck at that memory size. But, I’ve got a gig of memory on a 1.5 ghz Powerbook. Activity Monitor shows: JBuilder 16 threads, 128meg of real memory and 716meg of Virtual Memory used. Idles at approx. 1.9% cpu. I use the Apple L&F. I like to build Swing apps in OS X and check how they look in XP. Usually no change is necessary. Using Margins in a JEditorPane is highly recommended, of course. Starting Designer View requires that you sit back and sip your coffee. Other than that it’s pretty responsive. Of Course, If I had the money I’d be running on a Dual Cpu PowerMac. 2005-02-08 10:49 pm As for me, I can’t wait for Tiger. Despite having the option, I have not played with the beta. I am letting the anticipation build. I think this is going to be the best version of OSX yet. And by a long shot. 2005-02-08 11:06 pm …on xp. i even tweaked the Netbeans IDE config file to use more memory cause it only uses 32 mb. so now i have it take up up to 256 mb and man that thing flies on my machine. NetBeans starts up in less than 15 seconds with every module turned on. i use jdk 1.5 and have had no problems with any java apps. JEdit turns on in 5 seconds its a blast. I have a laptop btw. 3.4 ghz 1 gig ram and a fast hard drive. hard drive is slow in macs. i am pretty convinced about that at least in case of laptops. on desktops they have sata so thats a level playing field.